2020 Quarterback Competition

Another thing to consider.  I'm guessing the QBs talk.  If Vedral is throwing in the towel it's also because he believes LM has no intentions of leaving.  To me, Luke was the QB we all should be concerned with transferring so in a sense Vedral leaving is actually pretty good news regarding our QB depth.

 
84HuskerLaw said:
Quite the contrary - Frost recruited the kid to UCF from Lincoln as a QB.  Then he recruits him back to Lincoln as a known QB hes worked many hours with.  Two years more go by and he dumps him like a used car.  A revolving door on the team at far too many spots.  Too

many Frost recruits (not just Riley). 

The “modern era” means what? nobody goes to school to get an education, get a degree, grow up and all the while make lifelong friendships with team mates and play the game of football?  No commitment?   No loyalty?   No sense of team spirit / unity?   Just me, myself and I?    

Guess I dont get It!   Maybe its nothing worth getting.  These transfers of Frost recruits suggest something more - Frost knew or sure should have known Vedral wasnt good enough to play at NU if that is the story here.  
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".....dumps him like a used car."?

Where would you have Vedral on the quarterback depth chart?

 
Smothers is not ready.

Adrian and Luke are going to battle it out for the starting job.

Adrian, I am figuring, will win the job.

Scott is going want to put in packages that feature Luke instead of wasting talent on the bench. This crew needs all hands on deck.

No. 1 and No. 2 QBs are on the field at the same time.

What if there are injuries?

Before now, you would roll out Adrian and feature Luke.

Then Adrian gets hurt, you put in Luke and have Vederal as the back up.

Or you can continue to feature Luke while Vederal takes the snaps.

Luke gets hurt. Adrian continues at No. 1 and you have Vederal in the wings just in case.

No Vederal. Can't feature Luke.

If you did, and Luke got hurt, who would back up 2AM. An unprepared Smothers.? Please dude.

Smothers isn't getting any time to prepare due to COVID-19 and he has dealt with HS injuries.

Add this.... Bunch leaves, well, he was recruited by the last guy, so, umm, OK I guess.

But how is it that Frost doesn't have a better relationship with Vederal? Everyone is thinking that Frost and Vederal had worked it out and Vederal came knowing he would not be the starter and blah, blah, blah. Something doesn't smell right here. Either Frost lied to Vederal to get him to come here or Scott and Vederal had their relationship damaged post transfer.

None of that seems like good news.

 
tmfr15 said:
Smothers is not ready.

Adrian and Luke are going to battle it out for the starting job.

Adrian, I am figuring, will win the job.

Scott is going want to put in packages that feature Luke instead of wasting talent on the bench. This crew needs all hands on deck.

No. 1 and No. 2 QBs are on the field at the same time.

What if there are injuries?

Before now, you would roll out Adrian and feature Luke.

Then Adrian gets hurt, you put in Luke and have Vederal as the back up.

Or you can continue to feature Luke while Vederal takes the snaps.

Luke gets hurt. Adrian continues at No. 1 and you have Vederal in the wings just in case.

No Vederal. Can't feature Luke.

If you did, and Luke got hurt, who would back up 2AM. An unprepared Smothers.? Please dude.

Smothers isn't getting any time to prepare due to COVID-19 and he has dealt with HS injuries.

Add this.... Bunch leaves, well, he was recruited by the last guy, so, umm, OK I guess.

But how is it that Frost doesn't have a better relationship with Vederal? Everyone is thinking that Frost and Vederal had worked it out and Vederal came knowing he would not be the starter and blah, blah, blah. Something doesn't smell right here. Either Frost lied to Vederal to get him to come here or Scott and Vederal had their relationship damaged post transfer.

None of that seems like good news.
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Could there be some truth to a damaged relationship? Sure.

On the other hand, could it just be a kid got his degree and wants his chance to lead a team? Every bit as likely.

I'm guessing Frost wanted him to stay but laid things out honestly and supported him in his decision.

Also, Masker is still here for emergency purposes. 

 
Also with the "kicking him to the curb" narrative, pretty sure Frost didn't recruit him here - Vedral just wanted to come. From what I recall this staff went out of their way to advise kids to stay at UCF, but obviously being from here Vedral was unique and wanted to come back. He was definitely welcomed with open arms and given the chance to compete, but it's not like Frost convinced him to leave UCF and then kicked him out. I think he came here to play close to home, and now is looking for an opportunity to play more. I don't buy the argument that there has to be a strained relationship here, it was good while it lasted but he has opportunities to go elsewhere and there's no reason to try and guilt him into staying for the 3rd string job.

I also hope last year was an anomaly for QB injuries - there are plenty of teams that run the QB a lot that don't need to rely on their 3rd stringer. We are a better team with Vedral there than Masker or Smothers (right now), but let's not pretend 3rd string QB is one of the biggest things we should be worried about.

 
TheSker said:
".....dumps him like a used car."?

Where would you have Vedral on the quarterback depth chart?
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currently #2.   But it would very much depend on where I would assess the rest of the team as a whole. 

For example, if I had the advantage of the inside view / assessment of the team and viewed the 2020 season prospects as so many on here do of maybe 6 or 7 wins or even worse, then I’d probably move Vedral to co-no. 1 tied with Luke M.  I would redshirt Adrian and play him quite abit in 4 games.  By game week 1 (whenever that may come), it would be a judgment call as to the overall knowledge of the game plan for that game’s opponent.   Id play both Luke and Noah certainly unless there was an obvious edge - likely wouldnt be one based on what i know from far away.  

I would also redshirt any other non-seniors I could but play them alot in 4 games most likely the toughest opponents on the schedule.  

The plan is to build for the future (2021 & beyond).  

On the other hand - if I truly believed that 8 or 9 wins or better was likely, then I’d play the best / younger guy in cases of equal status with older.  

Frankly I was more optimistic before the virus etc because I expected the younger talent would be more ready.  But now with long layoffs, the conditioning and mental reps are lost so the older guys have a big edge.  

I have been very much disappointed by Adrian but with injuries etc its hard to know what his game will be by this fall / next spring / next fall.  

Finally one other major consideration is Luke’s status - is he likely to transfer if he doesnt get a fair shot to start?   This is why the HC ought not name ANY starting role to any spot - especially QB.  I realize Frost says this but it doesnt seem very sincere to me - thus all the transfers from the QB spot.  

 
84HuskerLaw said:
currently #2.   But it would very much depend on where I would assess the rest of the team as a whole. 

For example, if I had the advantage of the inside view / assessment of the team and viewed the 2020 season prospects as so many on here do of maybe 6 or 7 wins or even worse, then I’d probably move Vedral to co-no. 1 tied with Luke M.  I would redshirt Adrian and play him quite abit in 4 games.  By game week 1 (whenever that may come), it would be a judgment call as to the overall knowledge of the game plan for that game’s opponent.   Id play both Luke and Noah certainly unless there was an obvious edge - likely wouldnt be one based on what i know from far away.  

I would also redshirt any other non-seniors I could but play them alot in 4 games most likely the toughest opponents on the schedule.  

The plan is to build for the future (2021 & beyond).  

On the other hand - if I truly believed that 8 or 9 wins or better was likely, then I’d play the best / younger guy in cases of equal status with older.  

Frankly I was more optimistic before the virus etc because I expected the younger talent would be more ready.  But now with long layoffs, the conditioning and mental reps are lost so the older guys have a big edge.  

I have been very much disappointed by Adrian but with injuries etc its hard to know what his game will be by this fall / next spring / next fall.  

Finally one other major consideration is Luke’s status - is he likely to transfer if he doesnt get a fair shot to start?   This is why the HC ought not name ANY starting role to any spot - especially QB.  I realize Frost says this but it doesnt seem very sincere to me - thus all the transfers from the QB spot. 
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Look at any other program, QB transfers are the norm. And you were asked the question so it's not a crazy answer, but none of us have any idea whether Luke or Vedral should be the #2 to be honest. I suspect it was clear Luke had passed him this spring. And if you want someone to transfer, tell AM you're redshirting him for funsies after 2 years of starting.

 
Husker in WI said:
Look at any other program, QB transfers are the norm. And you were asked the question so it's not a crazy answer, but none of us have any idea whether Luke or Vedral should be the #2 to be honest. I suspect it was clear Luke had passed him this spring. And if you want someone to transfer, tell AM you're redshirting him for funsies after 2 years of starting.
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Based on his first 2 seasons I guess I would rather lose Adrian than Luke or Logan.  Vedral wont leave IF he has a fair shot to be a player and not just a play signaler.  

Of course none of us no the inside stuff so we ask questions and take our best gut reactions.  lol.  

I dont like transfer rules after year 1 or before graduation.  just my opinion - there are pros and cons.  

I assume that Frost has a friendly / cordial relationship with all his guys but its more about not having obvious favorites in my view.  It just feels that way to me is all.  

 
84HuskerLaw said:
Based on his first 2 seasons I guess I would rather lose Adrian than Luke or Logan.  Vedral wont leave IF he has a fair shot to be a player and not just a play signaler.  

Of course none of us no the inside stuff so we ask questions and take our best gut reactions.  lol.  

I dont like transfer rules after year 1 or before graduation.  just my opinion - there are pros and cons.  

I assume that Frost has a friendly / cordial relationship with all his guys but its more about not having obvious favorites in my view.  It just feels that way to me is all. 
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I just can't stress how much I disagree with this. Luke and Logan both look like studs, but we've seen very little from Luke and nothing from Logan. Martinez didn't have his best year last year, but he had a great freshman year and still had more great moments last year than critics are willing to remember.

And maybe he does have favorites, but I don't know why we're jumping to that conclusion when it's quite possible the guys he's playing are just the best players.

 
Husker in WI said:
I just can't stress how much I disagree with this. Luke and Logan both look like studs, but we've seen very little from Luke and nothing from Logan. Martinez didn't have his best year last year, but he had a great freshman year and still had more great moments last year than critics are willing to remember.

And maybe he does have favorites, but I don't know why we're jumping to that conclusion when it's quite possible the guys he's playing are just the best players.
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Assuming we play this fall as scheduled:

?   How many wins do you expect with Adrian starting all year

?   How many fewer with Luke?

?   How many with Vedral?

I feel the best case scenario with any of the three is 7 wins.  5 or 6 is more likely.  We may be slightly better with Adrain but its not worth using a year of eligibility for all three with very little net result change.  

Save Adrian a year to heal and get better. 

Play Luke and Noah to get experience and get better.  
Then next year - let them duke it out and see who wins the job!

If Adrian quits so be it.   Why should he get a guarantee?

 
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84HuskerLaw said:
Assuming we play this fall as scheduled:

?   How many wins do you expect with Adrian starting all year

?   How many fewer with Luke?

?   How many with Vedral?

I feel the best case scenario with any of the three is 7 wins.  5 or 6 is more likely.  We may be slightly better with Adrain but its not worth using a year of eligibility for all three with very little net result change.  

Save Adrian a year to heal and get better. 

Play Luke and Noah to get experience and get better.  
Then next year - let them duke it out and see who wins the job!

If Adrian quits so be it.   Why should he get a guarantee?
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7-8 with Adrian, and I think it's much more likely we go 5-7 with the others. But we really don't know, haven't seen a lot of them. I don't think Adrian is hurt any more, and I do think he's currently the best QB on the roster. I'm not even saying give him a guarantee, but you don't redshirt your top QB. Just let them duke it out this year and play the best guy, why hold off and make the team worse?

If you listen to guys who have to redshirt or sit out a year (like Deontai), they hate it. It sucks not being out there. You don't make a starter do it just to have an extra year when he is presumably healthy again. We can build for the future without throwing in the towel on this year, it's year 3. There's a little depth now - the time for "redshirting everyone possible was years 1 and 2 and the staff did for the most part.

 
Husker in WI said:
7-8 with Adrian, and I think it's much more likely we go 5-7 with the others. But we really don't know, haven't seen a lot of them. I don't think Adrian is hurt any more, and I do think he's currently the best QB on the roster. I'm not even saying give him a guarantee, but you don't redshirt your top QB. Just let them duke it out this year and play the best guy, why hold off and make the team worse?

If you listen to guys who have to redshirt or sit out a year (like Deontai), they hate it. It sucks not being out there. You don't make a starter do it just to have an extra year when he is presumably healthy again. We can build for the future without throwing in the towel on this year, it's year 3. There's a little depth now - the time for "redshirting everyone possible was years 1 and 2 and the staff did for the most part.
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I agree but we failed to play the younger guys last year enough yo be ready for year 3.  And year 3 is now screwed by the shutdown of spring   and maybe fall.  

we failed to use the first two years to build experience and develop juniors and seniors for year 3 (most are gone) do that effectively makes year three a rebuild year too.  

I hate it but things just havent gone right so a three year became a five year grind.  

The cupboard was almost bare and too many guys didnt work out, quit/left, etc.  

We need a real O line this year and its doubtful.  Adrain will get better snaps but more time?  Better receivers?  Better RBs ?   Better TEs?   All very shaky as we remain young and inexperienced / unproven at best.  

Frost RB and WR recruits have not been all that special except Wandale as a wingback.  Losing JD hurts too.  

By 2021 these youngsters will have some time to grow up and get better.  you need juniors ans seniors starting.  We have few and few frosh / sophs with time last year.  

 
84HuskerLaw said:
I agree but we failed to play the younger guys last year enough yo be ready for year 3.  And year 3 is now screwed by the shutdown of spring   and maybe fall.  

we failed to use the first two years to build experience and develop juniors and seniors for year 3 (most are gone) do that effectively makes year three a rebuild year too.  

I hate it but things just havent gone right so a three year became a five year grind.  

The cupboard was almost bare and too many guys didnt work out, quit/left, etc.  

We need a real O line this year and its doubtful.  Adrain will get better snaps but more time?  Better receivers?  Better RBs ?   Better TEs?   All very shaky as we remain young and inexperienced / unproven at best.  

Frost RB and WR recruits have not been all that special except Wandale as a wingback.  Losing JD hurts too.  

By 2021 these youngsters will have some time to grow up and get better.  you need juniors ans seniors starting.  We have few and few frosh / sophs with time last year.  
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I'm cautiously optimistic. All those things you mentioned were on offense, and in my opinion the oline and Mills were playing pretty well by the end of the year. Skill positions were shaky for sure overall, and I really hope JD comes back (not super optimistic there though), but at least we've got some dudes now. Definitely unproven, but last year there was also just a lack of talent and this year that's not the case.

Overall to the bolded, I think the answer is yes to all of those. I don't think we have a single receiver better than JD last year if he leaves, but give me Wan'Dale and Manning/Betts/Alante Brown/Warner/Fleming/Nixon over freshman Wan'Dale and Noa/Woodyard/Williams any day. RBs are the same (with some freshman reinforcements), TEs the same and adding Vokolek. I've convinced myself there has to be some improvement from the returners, or better athletes able to replace them. Who knows though.

 
It almost hurt to read the last 2 pages...  Adrian Martinez is in the top 10 (or 15 in some books) odds to win the Heisman.  Last year, with injuries, inconsistent line play, limited wide receiver talent, a run game that was inconsistent, etc, he completed just under 60% of his passes.  Of course he didn't play great at times.  His play was a reflection of all the things wrong around him.  I'm excited for the future.  I think Adrian will have a great 2020, and 2021 season and then Luke will have 2 full years to start as long as a young Smothers doesn't pass him up.  Losing Vedral isn't even a blip on the radar.  I honestly hope he makes a good transfer choice and has a great finish to his career.   

 
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