40 times verses the 10 yard "burst"

[HUSKER 37]

Not sure if or why this thread was closed..but. some of today's posts gave me a "Ureka" moment..Thanks for not closing it yesterday.

Wow!

I appreciate most all the posts in this thread..Just to help 'splain to myself maybe why my nephew didn't receive more attention..He was asked to walk-on by Solich..but Callahan didn't bother to follow up.

The 40 times do matter..in that they can tell you how one might compare in relation to another (LB chasing a RB down field)..If one is faster than the other in track shoes..they're more likely going to be faster in pads.

But the 10-yard burst thing makes sense..Watching this kid's tape reminded me a little of watching my Nephew's recruiting tape..Michael did tend to "lumber" the first 5-10 yards..I thought he either had bad field vision or was just looking for someone to plow over.

I never saw my nephew run a 40, but my brother did say after practice..he'd usually race the other two "burners" during wind sprints..and he was always having to come from behind because of "bad starts"..(My bro is probably the least bragging type..but you couldn't help but notice the pride in his voice to have the fastest kid on the team..It somehow seemed more better that he did it by "coming from behind".

I wish this kid luck..

He looks like he just might have the heart and desire to continue at another level..Just make sure you take the time to enjoy yourself and major in something you like.

Well the Guru of modern day Strength and Conditioning Programs, and the father of Husker Power, Boyd Epley would disagree with you.

Q: What is another problem you see in regard to strength and conditioning?
Epley: “We've focused on 40-yard dash all these years. Actually, 10-yard dash is much more important in identifying talent. Coaches are just hung up on what they've always done. If you don't beat an athlete in the first few steps, it doesn't matter what your 40 time is."

Omaha World Herald - Q & A with Boyd Epley: 'Tailor athletes' training'

I agree 100% with Boyd about the importance of those 1st 10 yards.

However, is being great at a ten yard dash any good if you can't sustain that speed for 30-50 yards?

I dunno, it seems to me that in a situation where a RB is racing down the sideline towards the endzone, a LB or DB's 40 time would certainly come into play because they're trying to catch him from behind.

Like I said, the 40 has been over-hyped...but it ain't meaningless either.

I agree it doesn't hurt, but frankly I agree with Red Storm. Yes you would like players to have that "burst" once they get in the open field, but frankly how often do players get in that position out of all of the plays in a game? The 10 yard burst and shuttle times indicate how good a player will be at getting to the line, through the line, and past the second level of defenders. You have to do all of that every single play of the game as a IB, only when you get past the second level do you get to use the 40 yard speed.

Wow!

I appreciate most all the posts in this thread..Just to help 'splain to myself maybe why my nephew didn't receive more attention..He was asked to walk-on by Solich..but Callahan didn't bother to follow up.

The 40 times do matter..in that they can tell you how one might compare in relation to another (LB chasing a RB down field)..If one is faster than the other in track shoes..they're more likely going to be faster in pads.

But the 10-yard burst thing makes sense..Watching this kid's tape reminded me a little of watching my Nephew's recruiting tape..Michael did tend to "lumber" the first 5-10 yards..I thought he either had bad field vision or was just looking for someone to plow over.

I never saw my nephew run a 40, but my brother did say after practice..he'd usually race the other two "burners" during wind sprints..and he was always having to come from behind because of "bad starts"..(My bro is probably the least bragging type..but you couldn't help but notice the pride in his voice to have the fastest kid on the team..It somehow seemed more better that he did it by "coming from behind".

I wish this kid luck..

He looks like he just might have the heart and desire to continue at another level..Just make sure you take the time to enjoy yourself and major in something you like.

 

[Red Storm Brewing]

Final point on the forty dash being overrated. How do you explain Dan Alexander a timed mid 4.5 guy pulling away from Colorado's Ben Kelly a legit timed 4.2 guy on an 80 yard touchdown?

40=overrated

 

[Red Storm Brewing]

Sorry one more thing, track speed and football speed are completely different worlds. Not to rain on any parades but it is true.

 

[HUSKER 37]

Final point on the forty dash being overrated. How do you explain Dan Alexander a timed mid 4.5 guy pulling away from Colorado's Ben Kelly a legit timed 4.2 guy on an 80 yard touchdown?

40=overrated

I agree it can be over-rated.

But shouldn't be discounted any more than a person's bench press as a measure of potential blocking ability.

I don't remember your above scenario, but there are numerous reasons why that could occur..Otherwise everybody would bet on the same horse at the track.

Didn't Alexander tend to get stronger at the end of the game?

Maybe Kelley had an ingrown toenail..was thinking about his girlfriend missing a period..could be almost anything.

Or

​

I'm much faster when someone is chasing me..than when I'm the pursuer.

 

[redout22]

Final point on the forty dash being overrated. How do you explain Dan Alexander a timed mid 4.5 guy pulling away from Colorado's Ben Kelly a legit timed 4.2 guy on an 80 yard touchdown?

40=overrated

Legit 4.2 speed?? No way. Very few people in the world can run that fast. And no way would any of those people would go to Colorado.

 

[BigT2454]

Final point on the forty dash being overrated. How do you explain Dan Alexander a timed mid 4.5 guy pulling away from Colorado's Ben Kelly a legit timed 4.2 guy on an 80 yard touchdown?

40=overrated

Legit 4.2 speed?? No way. Very few people in the world can run that fast. And no way would any of those people would go to Colorado.

It was more like 4.3 speed, but the guy was a track star playing football. Just like Griffin from Baylor. The guy was supposed to be one of the fastest, if not the fastest kid in football and Alexander ran right past him and kept him on his heels.

 

[HUSKER 37]

Final point on the forty dash being overrated. How do you explain Dan Alexander a timed mid 4.5 guy pulling away from Colorado's Ben Kelly a legit timed 4.2 guy on an 80 yard touchdown?

40=overrated

Legit 4.2 speed?? No way. Very few people in the world can run that fast. And no way would any of those people would go to Colorado.

Au Contrare!

A large number of our elite Olympic athletes train in Colorado Springs and the surrounding area

Darrell Green, who ran one of the fastest 40-yard dashes ever at 4.09 seconds (unofficially timed and not verified), had a collegiate best of 10.08 s in the 100 meters.[2] Justin Gatlin, who ran 9.85 s for a gold medal at the 2004 Olympic 100 metres, has a verified 40-yard dash best of 4.42 s.[3] This reflects the difference that timing methods can cause to a runner's time.
Ben Johnson, who is believed to have run 40 yards faster than any human in history. Johnson is best known for injecting copious amounts of steroids and winning the 100 meters at the 1988 Olympics in Seoul in 9.79 seconds, only to have his gold medal and world record stripped after failing a post-race drug test.

Timing officials have since broken down that famed race into 10-meter increments, and Johnson was so preposterously fast that he went through 50 meters in 5.52 seconds and 60 meters in 6.37 – both under the current world records at those distances. He went through 40 yar ds that day in 4.38 seconds.

There actually is no single, "official" 40 time at the NFL Combine. National Scouting, which runs the combine, provides three times per run, two fully hand-held and one stopped electronically. Each player may run twice, thereby yielding a potential six times. National Scouting provides all six of these times to NFL teams. The teams then do what they want with those times, or ignore them. Some teams use the best electronic time. Some teams throw out the fastest and slowest and average the rest. Some teams use the best time provided. And some teams use a time provided by their own scout on site.
Many players with incredible "reported" times have also done amazing things in the NFL, for example: Darrell Green ran an unofficial 4.09[citation needed] in training camp for the Washington Redskins. He is considered by many as one of the best corners of all time. Many see him as the fastest man in NFL history, having won several NFL's Fastest Man competitions.

Bo Jackson ran a 4.12. As a part-time player, Bo averaged 5.4 yards per carry. He also had 221 rushing yards on November 30, 1987 (just 29 days after his first NFL carry), which is still a Monday Night Football record.

DeAngelo Hall, a cornerback currently playing for the Atlanta Falcons, ran a 4.15 second 40 yard dash.[citation needed]

Randy Moss, a wide receiver currently playing for the New England Patriots, ran a 4.25 second 40 yard dash.[citation needed] Moss currently holds the rookie TD reception record with 17 and the single-season TD reception record with 23.

Devin Hester ran a disappointing 4.45 40 at the 2006 NFL Scouting Combine, but is now considered one of the best kick returners in NFL history and holds numerous return records.[citation needed]

Reggie Bush ran a 4.33, in 2006,[citation needed] he was the only rookie and the only running back to score a rushing TD and punt return TD. He also led the rookie running backs in receiving and set the NFL record for most catches by a NFL rookie running back

Heisman Trophy winner, Herschel Walker was said to have run a 4.25 (hand-timed) also for the Dallas Cowboys.[citation needed] He was a notable sprinter who also ran in the Olympic Trials.

The Fastest Players in the NFL include the following.

Devin Hester (4.24 @ Miami Pro Day, 4.45 @ 2006 NFL Combine, 100 speed in Madden 08)

Reggie Bush (4.33 @ University of USC at Pro Day 2006)

Ike Taylor (4.18 @ University of Louisiana at Lafayette Pro Day)

Laveranues Coles (4.16 @ Florida State University, 4.29 @ Jets Media Guide)

Ahman Green (4.19 @ Pre-Draft Workout in Nebraska)

Michael Puckett (4.19 @ Pre-Draft Workout at CCCC)

Zach Rehmert (4.20 @ Pre- Draft workout at Collin College)

Kevin Curtis (4.21 @ Utah State Pro Day)

Donte Stallworth (4.22 @ 2003 Tennessee Pro Day)

Willie Parker (4.23 @ 2004 North Carolina Pro Day)

Randy Moss (4.25 @ Marshall University)

Fabian Washington (4.29 @ 2005 NFL Combine)

Champ Bailey (4.28 @ 1999 NFL Combine)

Jerome Mathis (4.28 @ 2005 NFL Combine)

Willis McGahee (4.28 @ Miami Pre-Injury)

Michael Bennett (4.17 @ Wisconsin Pro Day, 4.37 @ 2001 NFL Combine)

Also, Bob Hayes won all but 1 race in the 40 yard dash back in the late 1960's, and he was once timed in 4.1. Back then, electronic timers only had 10ths of a second and didn't round, just stayed on a number until the next one was hit. In one race, he clocked in at 4.1. So figure it was probably under 4.2 but over 4.1 or somewhere in the neighborhood. They use to call the race, "King of the Hill" and it was raced in indoor track meets which NFL stars raced in.

That King of the Hill race was for pro-football players only. And the separation he would get was unbelievable, most times beating the field by at least a yard.

Here's another source:

The NFL's fastest official 40 yard dash time was 4.25 seconds by cornerback Fabian Washington. Previous to electronic timing, Deion Sanders held the official record at 4.29 seconds. Here are some unofficial claims to players who have broken the 4.2 second mark.

1. Ted Ginn Jr. (4.06)

2. Alexander Wright (4.09)

3. Michael Bennett (4.13)

4. Bo Jackson (4.14)

5. DeAngelo Hall (4.15)

6. Darrell Green (4.15)

7. Lavernaues Coles (4.16)

8. Deion Sanders (4.17)

9 Joey Galloway (4.18)

10. Ahman Green (4.19)

11. Laveranues Coles (4.2)

12. Don Beebe (4.21)

13. Donte Stallworth (4.22)

14. Ryan Dotson (4.24)

15. Michael Vick (4.25)

16. Randy Moss (4.25)

17. Willie Parker (4.23)

18. Devin Hester (4.24)

19. Champ Bailey (4.28)

20. Willis McGahee (4.28)

21. Stanford Routt (4.29)

22. Fabian Washington(4.29)

23. Reggie Bush (4.33)

Was that OUR Fabian Washington?

 

[HuskerJen]

Final point on the forty dash being overrated. How do you explain Dan Alexander a timed mid 4.5 guy pulling away from Colorado's Ben Kelly a legit timed 4.2 guy on an 80 yard touchdown?

40=overrated

Or maybe the defender simply gave up on the play???? :dunno

 

[fro daddy]

40 times can be overated. But alot of things go into your ability to catch players or seperate from players on the field.

#1. as mentioned before, you 10 yard burst speed can be a huge difference maker. Derrick Thomas was not the fastest person on the field but he was in his first 3 steps. Also for myself in HS. I had the second best 10 yard time on my team and the 15th best 40 time. I was as fast as anybody in my first 3 to 4 steps. Once everyone got to top speed...not so much

#2. There is such a small diffence between a 4.5 and a 4.8. If you line those two up and start and the same time and all is even. They will basically run right with eachother.

#3. which brings in angles. Your angle of pursuit is the biggest factor in chasing a ball carrier. Good angle and you can catch someone faster. Bad angle and that slower player just beat you to the corner.

#4. effort. As Jen said. maybe they gave up on the play. Some players will chase you as hard as they can, as long as they can. Some give up the minute they think you are past them.

With that all said, a faster player can be beat in a number of ways. If you get the jump on them, they may not catch you. If you take a bad pursuit angle or have a poor effort you will not catch him.

This is something most of you know, but sometimes its something you dont think about.

 

[caveman99]

Final point on the forty dash being overrated. How do you explain Dan Alexander a timed mid 4.5 guy pulling away from Colorado's Ben Kelly a legit timed 4.2 guy on an 80 yard touchdown?

40=overrated

Legit 4.2 speed?? No way. Very few people in the world can run that fast. And no way would any of those people would go to Colorado.

Au Contrare!

A large number of our elite Olympic athletes train in Colorado Springs and the surrounding area

Darrell Green, who ran one of the fastest 40-yard dashes ever at 4.09 seconds (unofficially timed and not verified), had a collegiate best of 10.08 s in the 100 meters.[2] Justin Gatlin, who ran 9.85 s for a gold medal at the 2004 Olympic 100 metres, has a verified 40-yard dash best of 4.42 s.[3] This reflects the difference that timing methods can cause to a runner's time.
Ben Johnson, who is believed to have run 40 yards faster than any human in history. Johnson is best known for injecting copious amounts of steroids and winning the 100 meters at the 1988 Olympics in Seoul in 9.79 seconds, only to have his gold medal and world record stripped after failing a post-race drug test.

Timing officials have since broken down that famed race into 10-meter increments, and Johnson was so preposterously fast that he went through 50 meters in 5.52 seconds and 60 meters in 6.37 – both under the current world records at those distances. He went through 40 yar ds that day in 4.38 seconds.

There actually is no single, "official" 40 time at the NFL Combine. National Scouting, which runs the combine, provides three times per run, two fully hand-held and one stopped electronically. Each player may run twice, thereby yielding a potential six times. National Scouting provides all six of these times to NFL teams. The teams then do what they want with those times, or ignore them. Some teams use the best electronic time. Some teams throw out the fastest and slowest and average the rest. Some teams use the best time provided. And some teams use a time provided by their own scout on site.
Many players with incredible "reported" times have also done amazing things in the NFL, for example: Darrell Green ran an unofficial 4.09[citation needed] in training camp for the Washington Redskins. He is considered by many as one of the best corners of all time. Many see him as the fastest man in NFL history, having won several NFL's Fastest Man competitions.

Bo Jackson ran a 4.12. As a part-time player, Bo averaged 5.4 yards per carry. He also had 221 rushing yards on November 30, 1987 (just 29 days after his first NFL carry), which is still a Monday Night Football record.

DeAngelo Hall, a cornerback currently playing for the Atlanta Falcons, ran a 4.15 second 40 yard dash.[citation needed]

Randy Moss, a wide receiver currently playing for the New England Patriots, ran a 4.25 second 40 yard dash.[citation needed] Moss currently holds the rookie TD reception record with 17 and the single-season TD reception record with 23.

Devin Hester ran a disappointing 4.45 40 at the 2006 NFL Scouting Combine, but is now considered one of the best kick returners in NFL history and holds numerous return records.[citation needed]

Reggie Bush ran a 4.33, in 2006,[citation needed] he was the only rookie and the only running back to score a rushing TD and punt return TD. He also led the rookie running backs in receiving and set the NFL record for most catches by a NFL rookie running back

Heisman Trophy winner, Herschel Walker was said to have run a 4.25 (hand-timed) also for the Dallas Cowboys.[citation needed] He was a notable sprinter who also ran in the Olympic Trials.

The Fastest Players in the NFL include the following.

Devin Hester (4.24 @ Miami Pro Day, 4.45 @ 2006 NFL Combine, 100 speed in Madden 08)

Reggie Bush (4.33 @ University of USC at Pro Day 2006)

Ike Taylor (4.18 @ University of Louisiana at Lafayette Pro Day)

Laveranues Coles (4.16 @ Florida State University, 4.29 @ Jets Media Guide)

Ahman Green (4.19 @ Pre-Draft Workout in Nebraska)

Michael Puckett (4.19 @ Pre-Draft Workout at CCCC)

Zach Rehmert (4.20 @ Pre- Draft workout at Collin College)

Kevin Curtis (4.21 @ Utah State Pro Day)

Donte Stallworth (4.22 @ 2003 Tennessee Pro Day)

Willie Parker (4.23 @ 2004 North Carolina Pro Day)

Randy Moss (4.25 @ Marshall University)

Fabian Washington (4.29 @ 2005 NFL Combine)

Champ Bailey (4.28 @ 1999 NFL Combine)

Jerome Mathis (4.28 @ 2005 NFL Combine)

Willis McGahee (4.28 @ Miami Pre-Injury)

Michael Bennett (4.17 @ Wisconsin Pro Day, 4.37 @ 2001 NFL Combine)

Also, Bob Hayes won all but 1 race in the 40 yard dash back in the late 1960's, and he was once timed in 4.1. Back then, electronic timers only had 10ths of a second and didn't round, just stayed on a number until the next one was hit. In one race, he clocked in at 4.1. So figure it was probably under 4.2 but over 4.1 or somewhere in the neighborhood. They use to call the race, "King of the Hill" and it was raced in indoor track meets which NFL stars raced in.

That King of the Hill race was for pro-football players only. And the separation he would get was unbelievable, most times beating the field by at least a yard.

Here's another source:

The NFL's fastest official 40 yard dash time was 4.25 seconds by cornerback Fabian Washington. Previous to electronic timing, Deion Sanders held the official record at 4.29 seconds. Here are some unofficial claims to players who have broken the 4.2 second mark.

1. Ted Ginn Jr. (4.06)

2. Alexander Wright (4.09)

3. Michael Bennett (4.13)

4. Bo Jackson (4.14)

5. DeAngelo Hall (4.15)

6. Darrell Green (4.15)

7. Lavernaues Coles (4.16)

8. Deion Sanders (4.17)

9 Joey Galloway (4.18)

10. Ahman Green (4.19)

11. Laveranues Coles (4.2)

12. Don Beebe (4.21)

13. Donte Stallworth (4.22)

14. Ryan Dotson (4.24)

15. Michael Vick (4.25)

16. Randy Moss (4.25)

17. Willie Parker (4.23)

18. Devin Hester (4.24)

19. Champ Bailey (4.28)

20. Willis McGahee (4.28)

21. Stanford Routt (4.29)

22. Fabian Washington(4.29)

23. Reggie Bush (4.33)

Was that OUR Fabian Washington?

Yes, yes it was. It was Fabian's time that wowed the Raiders so much to take him in the 1st round, Al Davis has a soft spot for really fast players. Fabian was a very good player for NU and has been a serviceable player in the pros since 2005, but he was not 1st round material but that is what hyping a 40 time will do for you. Good for him.

 

[UGAHusker]

Final point on the forty dash being overrated. How do you explain Dan Alexander a timed mid 4.5 guy pulling away from Colorado's Ben Kelly a legit timed 4.2 guy on an 80 yard touchdown?

40=overrated

Or maybe the defender simply gave up on the play???? :dunno

Kelly was hauling in pursuit until about the last 5 yards, problem was, Dan-O was hauling a little bit faster. Great way to start that game.

 

[Ohio Pete]

Not sure if or why this thread was closed..but. some of today's posts gave me a "Ureka" moment..Thanks for not closing it yesterday.

Dude was spamming every forum with his web site. I didn't close it, but I could move the posts related to 40 time here if your really want.

 

[HUSKER 37]

Not sure if or why this thread was closed..but. some of today's posts gave me a "Ureka" moment..Thanks for not closing it yesterday.

Dude was spamming every forum with his web site. I didn't close it, but I could move the posts related to 40 time here if your really want.

Not necessary..

I just think locking a thread should be a last resort.

Unless people are persistently attacking each other or you were trying to protect the kid (if he was really the initial poster)...(Some of his other threads on other teams' sites were also locked).

By locking it, you don't give the posters that think a "4.9 is really fast" a chance to defend their position and if you had closed it a day before and I had never read that quote from Boyd Eppley about the 10 yard thing being more important than 40 time...I may have wondered for the rest of my life why my nephew only got (partial?) offers from a couple of Ivy League schools.

Plus..Now I can't add the part where my High School coach threatened to time me with a c a l e n d a r for my 40..

 

[NUance]

10 yd dash is important for every position. Most important for down linemen on both sides.

40 yd dash has more relevance for WR, CB, and maybe RB and safety.

 

[HuskerJen]

10 yd dash is important for every position. Most important for down linemen on both sides.

40 yd dash has more relevance for WR, CB, and maybe RB and safety.

Like I have said previously...the importance of the 40 time has become overhyped-but it ain't meaningless either.