Adrian Martinez

Undone said:
Right, and where were the shorter swing passes that Lubick had seemed to actually get figured out last year?

Offensive execution was pretty bad in the first half. In the second half we actually got some stuff going. We had another good drive going on the one where Martinez hit Toure down the left sideline for a great first down gain...but that was called back due to Martin getting called for a pick play.
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Nebraska55fan said:
Yes or play action passing game. 

Only time I remember play action was very late in the game when clock and the threat of the running game is very low. BUT great run fakes- which seemed to fool no one and do nothing but waste time getting into the pocket. 

LOVE throwing play action when guys think you are going to run

Late in the game when behind and no one expects you are going to run- not so much
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I just quickly rewatched the game (yes, I'm a masochist).  It's clear that something happened around half way through the third quarter.  Martinez started getting rid of the ball quickly. He actually threw the ball a few times with the guy covered and let him go up and get it.  His decision making was quicker.  Guess what...we moved the ball and scored.

There were a number of times where there was a check down open and he chose to keep looking down field only to be sacked or throw an incomplete pass.

He has got to get to a point where he's making a decision and getting rid of the ball.  

Two things that were frustrating but didn't have anything to do with the outcome.

Early in the game, Martinez had to take a timeout because the clock was running down.  I counted it off and, at most, there was 15 seconds between the end of the play and when he took the timeout with only a couple seconds left.  Something was screwed up.  

Late in the game when they claimed we had a first down and we thought it was 4th down.  No way in hell did our RB get the first down on that play.  I don't know what the communication is on the field.  Isn't there a down marker that shows the down that the coaches should see?  But, I at least understand why our team thought it was 4th down.

 
BigRedBuster said:
Early in the game, Martinez had to take a timeout because the clock was running down.  I counted it off and, at most, there was 15 seconds between the end of the play and when he took the timeout with only a couple seconds left.  Something was screwed up.  
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I thought the refs figured that out and gave the timeout back. 

 
junior4949 said:
Ok, so what came first the chicken or the egg?  Did Frost make what Milton would become?  Or, did Milton make Frost look better than he actually is?  IMO, the offense has two big problems.  First, we don't have the road graders up to open holes and keep guys off the QB.  Second, the entire success and failure of a play rests almost entirely on the QB.  
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I don't really know for sure but my gut says it's that Milton made Frost look better than he actually was, given what I see from Scott in some complete inabilities to fix things that a halfway decent head coach should be able to fix (special teams, etc.).

Someone will swoop in and disagree here but from a bird's eye view - I'm talking high level - what this offense is trying to do isn't that different from the Tim Beck offense. Beck's offense probably had more designed QB keeper run plays, whereas a lot of Martinez's running yards come on broken play scrambles.

But anyway, the systems are pretty similar. So why does this offense suck? One big thing that sticks out to me is that we don't really seem to have a running back like Helu Jr., Burkhead, or Abdullah on this team IMO.

 
Undone said:
Someone will swoop in and disagree here but from a bird's eye view - I'm talking high level - what this offense is trying to do isn't that different from the Tim Beck offense. Beck's offense probably had more designed QB keeper run plays, whereas a lot of Martinez's running yards come on broken play scrambles.
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Tim Beck is an EXCEPTIONAL play designer. That is why Meyer hired him at OSU. Loved his running game- sweep read/inverted veer is still my favorite play- put it in my offense. They optimized the zone reads- looked zone read  but was a called handoff or keep. QB power and even QB traps.

More impressed with Becks offensive design than Frosts. Beck would get hung up calling plays sometimes- not in the design. 

 
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Nebraska55fan said:
That is why Meyer hired him at OSU.
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...and then fired him after a short stint because they lost a key game where their star running back got like single digit carries, costing them the game.

But, I actually did like Tim Beck quite a bit also. I wouldn't say he was an exceptional play designer or OC, but he was decent.

I would also argue that the QB play between Adrian and then Taylor/Tommy is roughly the same; all three guys are "run-first" dual threat guys, all of them had their struggles with accuracy & mechanics, but look at the running backs that Taylor had to work with and that Tommy had to work with early in his four year career...talk about exceptional!

 
Undone said:
...and then fired him after a short stint because they lost a key game where their star running back got like single digit carries, costing them the game.

But, I actually did like Tim Beck quite a bit also. I wouldn't say he was an exceptional play designer or OC, but he was decent.

I would also argue that the QB play between Adrian and then Taylor/Tommy is roughly the same; all three guys are "run-first" dual threat guys, all of them had their struggles with accuracy & mechanics, but look at the running backs that Taylor had to work with and that Tommy had to work with early in his four year career...talk about exceptional!
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I'm to the point of thinking that the only way Adrian is going to win games is with his legs.  Run the crap out of him.  But, if he gets injured, don't play him injured.  It's time to bring in second string.

 
BoNeyard said:
Tommy Armstrong found ways to win games. That is the biggest difference between him and Adrian Martinez. 
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I think it's a pretty solid argument. But I also think we'd be remiss if we didn't also point out that Bo's teams rarely sucked with special teams and fundamentals.

There is a s*** ton that Adrian has to put all on his own back in order to overcome the shortcomings of this overall poorly-coached program.

There was one year special teams were bad and Bo personally coached them himself apparently, and the next season things turned around in that department.

Frost just doesn't get it done in those departments.

 
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Tom Herman then took Beck with him to Texas from OSU to be the OC there

OC at Ohio State and Texas- those are big time jobs. Urban Meyer called Beck an exceptional play designer- I would have to agree. I like his ingenuity and his teams usually run the basics fairly well- Inside Zone, Outside Zone, Zone Read- he ran power too. He did some appearances on the Clinic circuit and his rooms were ALWAYS full.   He just isn't a great game day playcaller- things get away from him on game days at times. 

He was passing game coordinator at KU the year they went 12-1 with that tiny little QB and the fat man calling plays.  

Seems to be doing well at a surging NC State now. I like Coach Beck. 

 
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Anyway...I've taken some s*** for defending Adrian in this thread, but in my opinion you have to have the conversation as having two elements:

1. Analyzing Martinez's play in a vacuum.

2. Analyzing his play in the midst of everything else going on with our struggling offense and struggling team in general.

I think he's the easiest target to place blame in a game like Illinois. But I also think that Frost sucks at adjusting and working with what he has instead of running a more pie-in-the-sky scheme that maybe Adrian just can't actually execute...on top of basically spotting almost every team we play roughly 7-14 points from terrible special teams and inopportune penalties.

 
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MyBloodIsRed16 said:
Soooo.  lets higher Tim Beck as the OC but don't let him call plays.  Problem solved.
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Thats why teams have hired him to coach QBs or RBs- then he is the running or passing game coordinator. GREAT way to utilize him.  He is an exceptional play designer and knows how to utilize what he has. 

 
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