Adrian Martinez

VizionNE said:
I think it’s fair to look at it like this but how do you reconcile the last game Martinez played in 2020?

Yes, he ran for 157 yards. Yes, his completion % was good. Let’s not forget he threw two picks and had 3 fumbles. 
 

That game in a nutshell is what we have seen for 2 years now. It’s also why he was benched mid season.
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That game was nothing close to his last two seasons in a nutshell. That game was an extreme outlier from a turnover standpoint. 

It was a frigid road game at the end of a trying season where and injured Martinez was trying to do too much to get his team a win and had ball security issues k in no small part due to the sleeves he was wearing.

The part where people keep trying to act like that was what was happening all season is disingenuous at best.

 
Mavric said:
That game was nothing close to his last two seasons in a nutshell. That game was an extreme outlier from a turnover standpoint. 

It was a frigid road game at the end of a trying season where and injured Martinez was trying to do too much to get his team a win and had ball security issues k in no small part due to the sleeves he was wearing.

The part where people keep trying to act like that was what was happening all season is disingenuous at best.
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What stats are looking at to define that as an “extreme outlier”? Does he always have 3 fumbles and two picks? I’d agree he does not if that is your extreme definition. 
 

Why are you making excuses for fumbles? What does cold weather have to do with it? Does Nebraska not get cold? Last I checked he is a 3 year starter. I’d hope he knows how to play in that weather? 
 

Stats tell me we have a turnover problem, for essentially the entire time #2 has been Nebraska starting QB. He was also benched for another turnover machine in #7 to drive accountability for said issues. 
 

I guess if that means I’m being disingenuous, so be it the . 

 
VizionNE said:
I think it’s fair to look at it like this but how do you reconcile the last game Martinez played in 2020?

Yes, he ran for 157 yards. Yes, his completion % was good. Let’s not forget he threw two picks and had 3 fumbles. 
 

That game in a nutshell is what we have seen for 2 years now. It’s also why he was benched mid season.

 
That game is also a good example of why Nebraska keeps coming up

short. You don’t normally turn the ball over 4 times and win, but Nebraska makes a habit of making every game hard due to our propensity to try and beat two teams every game (ourselves and the other team). 

Really hope these statistics change but nothing, even his last game, has shown me it will. Going to be another bumpy season if it doesn’t. 
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It was sort of already addressed but here's my take on this. 

• Yes, he turned it over too much in that game. No question. But those two picks were half of his incompletions, and he also had two touchdowns on the ground contrasted against those three fumbles.

• Two of the those fumbles were in the first quarter (3 points scored off of them), I believe all three in the first half (zero after he tore his sleeves off, which he wasn't used to, and it's not an excuse but it's an important contextual detail that it got fixed).

• One of the interceptions was an insane #SCTop10 leaping one handed snag off an aggressive throw into the endzone. Not a great throw, not a great decision, but personally I don't mind the aggressiveness at all and sometimes people make incredible plays (that INT was more due to the unbelievable effort of the Rutgers DB than it was the poor execution of the QB, imo). Second one was awful with no excuse.

His quantity of fumbles is at least to some degree related to his quantity of carries. His rate of fumbles per carries isn't nearly as alarming as a stat, and is the more important stat. Also in regards to his interceptions, outside of the Rutgers game he had 1 total INT in 6 other games. 

 
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I’m very surprised folks are focusing on the context and trying to excuse things. 
 

I picked that game for two reasons: 1) last game played, 2) it’s Rutgers 

People want to point to our players not getting separation, skill issues, etc. Not in play vs. Rutgers. 

Make all the excuses you want. The guy averages a turnover per game. High utilization or not; that is unacceptable.

 
VizionNE said:
Didn’t play much in a few of the games so these are a bit skewed but the number don’t lie. 

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So, by your own numbers, 42% of his fumbles and 67% of his interceptions FOR THE SEASON came in that ONE GAME. Yet you've apparently convinced yourself that, not only is that not a outlier, but that's what you think you were seeing from him most games.  

 
So were supposed to be excited that we put up a bunch of yards and points on Rutgers? Well one would hope that would be the case- because everyone else did- they were the 11th best Defense in the conference. Yet we did try really really  hard to give the game away. This "no fear of failure" nice try little johnny- it's going to be ok is great for t-ball, not major college football. That approach and all the excuses just isn't working. People are SICK of all the excuses and meaningless hype- those are the facts. I'm really hoping Martinez does better- but there really isn't any legitimate data that shows that our QBs get better with time here. 

https://bigten.org/stats.aspx?path=football&year=2020

 
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Mavric said:
So, by your own numbers, 42% of his fumbles and 67% of his interceptions FOR THE SEASON came in that ONE GAME. Yet you've apparently convinced yourself that, not only is that not a outlier, but that's what you think you were seeing from him most games.  
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My own numbers? 7 games is what Nebraska played in. Look at the splits and you’ll see a different story (#2 didn’t accumulate a ton of stats in 2 games because he didn’t start because of turnover issues). 
 

Are you in capable of looking past 2020 as well? 2020 game log splits tell the same story but I keep referencing his entire body of work and you keep going back. 
 

If you don’t believe he or Nebraska itself, has a turnover issue, that’s perfect. Glad for you. 
 

One thing we can agree on, at least I hope, is that we both want #2 to succeed and have his best season this year. 

 
VizionNE said:
My own numbers? 7 games is what Nebraska played in. Look at the splits and you’ll see a different story (#2 didn’t accumulate a ton of stats in 2 games because he didn’t start because of turnover issues). 
 

Are you in capable of looking past 2020 as well? 2020 game log splits tell the same story but I keep referencing his entire body of work and you keep going back. 
 

If you don’t believe he or Nebraska itself, has a turnover issue, that’s perfect. Glad for you. 
 

One thing we can agree on, at least I hope, is that we both want #2 to succeed and have his best season this year. 
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I don't think a single person on here believes that Nebraska doesn't have a turnover issue.  The WHY is where many of us disagree.  

QBs turn the ball over at a much higher rate when they are trying to come from behind.  They are trying to make things happen and N has played from behind a lot lately.

QBs turn the ball over at a much higher rate when skill position players are substandard.  They are trying to compensate for the lackluster play around them.

QBs turn the ball over at a much higher rate when the O-Line stinks.  Under pressure plays account for well over 50% of the QB turnovers we have had in the last 3 years.

We have a turnover issue- no doubt.  The reason we do does not lie completely on the QBs shoulders.  Fans want something easy to point at.  They want instant gratification and pointing to one guy does that.  #2 gets the brunt of the complaints but I'll ask again- How do you think #2 would look at Ohio State?  My guess is he would be squarely in the Heisman conversation. 

 
VizionNE said:
I think it’s fair to look at it like this but how do you reconcile the last game Martinez played in 2020?

Yes, he ran for 157 yards. Yes, his completion % was good. Let’s not forget he threw two picks and had 3 fumbles. 
 

That game in a nutshell is what we have seen for 2 years now. It’s also why he was benched mid season.

 
That game is also a good example of why Nebraska keeps coming up

short. You don’t normally turn the ball over 4 times and win, but Nebraska makes a habit of making every game hard due to our propensity to try and beat two teams every game (ourselves and the other team). 

Really hope these statistics change but nothing, even his last game, has shown me it will. Going to be another bumpy season if it doesn’t. 
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I think we keep having losing seasons because we shank punts 12 yards, let the other team run the ball back to their own 35-40 on kickoffs, and have kick returners that don't know when to take the touchback and get the ball on the 25. We keep having losing seasons because of untimely penalties and because we snap the ball over the QB's head.

Special teams and boneheaded penalties are the two top reasons. We were 5th in offensive yards per game last year, but these two things make our points scored per yard gained average pretty bad.

Those things aren't on Martinez. He needs to do better with securing the ball when he's falling forward for rushing yards...but he had only thrown one interception heading into that Rutgers game.

And benching him was such a dumb move by Frost...McNuggets goes in there and then has four turnovers against Illinois and we lose in embarrassing fashion...with one of those turnovers coming on a bizarre and panicked lateral on the first play of the game.

 
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You two touch on my biggest concerns going into this season. QB & Special Teams. Both need to improve if they are going to be successful. I'd be happy if Martinez could just be a game manager and keep the turnovers to a reasonable level (ie not in the top 10 like he has been for his first 3 seasons). And the Special Teams need to see a dramatic improvement. Hard to see how they could be much worse but at least get to an average level of play. Take care of those two things and the season is looking up.

 
Somebody earlier in this thread said "how do you reconcile the Rutgers game of 2020," referring to Martinez's four turnovers.

I mean...we won that game? So I guess the way I reconcile it was he, the offensive line, and Mills overcame the turnovers and wound up winning anyway.

We can cherry pick games to fit an argument all day of course, but I look more at games like Minnesota last year. Martinez had 96 yards rushing, threw for a 59% completion, and had one fumble. Our other three RBs had a combined 101 yards rushing. Something's kind of wrong with that.

McNuggets comes in for one series and throws an interception. When Minnesota was driving late in the 2nd quarter I believe we had a dumb penalty on defense that gave them a first down. We also missed a 30 yard field goal.

Martinez needs to cut down on the turnovers. But I'm addressing the posts that seem to indicate that Martinez's play is the thing that's holding us back from going 8-4 or something. I just really disagree with that sentiment.

 
Undone said:
Somebody earlier in this thread said "how do you reconcile the Rutgers game of 2020," referring to Martinez's four turnovers.

I mean...we won that game? So I guess the way I reconcile it was he, the offensive line, and Mills overcame the turnovers and wound up winning anyway.

We can cherry pick games to fit an argument all day of course, but I look more at games like Minnesota last year. Martinez had 96 yards rushing, threw for a 59% completion, and had one fumble. Our other three RBs had a combined 101 yards rushing. Something's kind of wrong with that.

McNuggets comes in for one series and throws an interception. When Minnesota was driving late in the 2nd quarter I believe we had a dumb penalty on defense that gave them a first down. We also missed a 30 yard field goal.

Martinez needs to cut down on the turnovers. But I'm addressing the posts that seem to indicate that Martinez's play is the thing that's holding us back from going 8-4 or something. I just really disagree with that sentiment.
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Mills was all we had. but that's still not a good excuse to running fumblelina.

 
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