Another Appreciation of Tommy's Progress

[Guy Chamberlin]

It should be a no brainer that gaudy numbers don't always tell the whole story but obviously some Husker fans will still always be blown away just by a guys 'stats'.

Pretty sure I'm saying just the opposite: Martinez and Armstrong will end up with all the big numbers without making the list of Husker greats.

I also have to ask if Gill, Frazier, Crouch and Frost had played with historically bad Nebraska defenses -- as Armstrong and Martinez did -- would they have won enough games to still be great?

 

[Landlord]

Tommy Armstrong is on pace to become the most prolific offensive player in the long, rich history of Nebraska football.

How do you feel about that?

Discuss.

I think Tommy will end up there, even more so as a result of longevity than Taylor was.

It's crazy to think that Tommy is even more of an enigma than Taylor was, in some regards. Taylor's best games and worst games seemed either 12 or -2, where Tommy's seem either 9 or 1. He quietly has great days, and he quietly has awful days.

 

[suh_fan93]

It should be a no brainer that gaudy numbers don't always tell the whole story but obviously some Husker fans will still always be blown away just by a guys 'stats'.

Pretty sure I'm saying just the opposite: Martinez and Armstrong will end up with all the big numbers without making the list of Husker greats.

Saying the opposite? I don't see where that is implied....

Guy Chamberlin, on 28 Oct 2015 - 2:11 PM, said:

"Tommy Armstrong is on pace to become the most prolific offensive player in the long, rich history of Nebraska football."

I also have to ask if Gill, Frazier, Crouch and Frost had played with historically bad Nebraska defenses -- as Armstrong and Martinez did -- would they have won enough games to still be great?

Not sure how this is even a question to be honest. Gill, Frazier, Crouch and Frost didn't directly contribute to their teams losing nearly as much as Armstrong and Martinez have regardless of which group had the better defense helping them. It's not even close. The former group made plays like no other group of qb's in Nebraska history. They were consistent besides just being light years better quarterbacks, better leaders and far more consistent playmakers.

 

[bale]

The great quarterbacks on our favorite Nebraska teams tended to be 50% passers and better than average runners, too.

They had great offensive lines in common, and defenses that gave up only 8 - 15 points a game. That changes the expectations and demands on an offense.

I'm kinda tired of the run/pass ratio debate. Every great team does most things well.

If Tommy Armstrong becomes our total offense leader, he will surpass Taylor Martinez, and I'm thinking a lot of us feel the same about both players: exciting but flawed, and playing on teams with problems that vintage Husker squads didn't have to suffer. Can't dismiss their stats and competitive fire. Can't quite embrace them, either.

Not to bring up 'that' argument... And while I'm aware Tommy still has another year left... to me, Tommy shouldn't be in the conversation with Taylor. Taylor is one of the best QB's to ever play at Nebraska (certainly in the top 10 - I'd put him right outside the top 5). He was the spark of 2010, and won Nebraska about 5 games in 2012. No, he's not Crouch or Frost or Tommie or Gill or Tagge, in part because Taylor's teams were mediocre at best (besides 2010). But Taylor is right behind them. He's at the top of that group of either very good QB's who just didn't quite have enough themselves to carry a decent team to championships or good QB's who had great teams (this group includes guys like Zac and Steve Taylor, Humm, etc.). Armstrong is just another Nebraska QB to me. A guy with some talent, who had some flashes, but nothing to be overly excited about. He's got the up/down quality of Taylor, but his highs don't even come close to touching Taylor's.

 

[True2tRA]

The great quarterbacks on our favorite Nebraska teams tended to be 50% passers and better than average runners, too.

They had great offensive lines in common, and defenses that gave up only 8 - 15 points a game. That changes the expectations and demands on an offense.

I'm kinda tired of the run/pass ratio debate. Every great team does most things well.

If Tommy Armstrong becomes our total offense leader, he will surpass Taylor Martinez, and I'm thinking a lot of us feel the same about both players: exciting but flawed, and playing on teams with problems that vintage Husker squads didn't have to suffer. Can't dismiss their stats and competitive fire. Can't quite embrace them, either.

Good comment.

Even as one of Armstrong's biggest believers and supporters, it has become more difficult to embrace what we've been seeing. Flashes of greatness just aren't enough anymore. Not if we want to take the next step as a program. That really applies all around, but especially to our QB.

Consistency is the key and we are just not seeing enough of it, and haven't for quite a long time.

 

[RunMickeyRun02]

I know a lot of people dog on Tommy, but I LOVE the kid. It really doesn't matter who the QB is. To much credit for success, to much blame when things go south and all that old jazz.

Love the fight and leadership, proud he's our QB

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

I also have to ask if Gill, Frazier, Crouch and Frost had played with historically bad Nebraska defenses -- as Armstrong and Martinez did -- would they have won enough games to still be great?

Not sure how this is even a question to be honest. Gill, Frazier, Crouch and Frost didn't directly contribute to their teams losing nearly as much as Armstrong and Martinez have regardless of which group had the better defense helping them. It's not even close. The former group made plays like no other group of qb's in Nebraska history. They were consistent besides just being light years better quarterbacks, better leaders and far more consistent playmakers.

Yeah, but this misses the whole team concept. Gill, Frazier, Crouch and Frost made plays like no other quarterback while standing behind an offensive line of All-Americans and Outland Award Winners.

Armstrong and Martinez had nothing close to that kind of pass protection, nor the security of knowing we could make a 3rd and 2 on sheer push. The drop off in offensive line talent has been steep and deep.

Gill, Frazier, Crouch and Frost benefitted from outstanding defenses, or at least Top 20 defenses --- far above what we have today. They were very inaccurate passers by today's standards, but when they threw a bad pass they weren't contributing to the team losing, because the defense would generally get them the ball back and keep the game close. The offense could afford a slow start and some missed opportunities because we could wear a team down in the second half. Armstrong and Martinez felt like they had to do something dramatic and risky because they generally did. They made at least as many spectacular plays as Gill, Frazier, Crouch and Frost, and I would never question their competitive fire, but what they didn't do with consistency was win.

Surely you understand the difference of having a defense that gives up 27 points a game, versus a defense that gives up 8 points a game, and how that might affect an offense.

As great as Tommie Frazier was, does his leadership plug the holes in an offensive line or defensive secondary?

I mean, it is an honest question. Did Gill, Frazier, Crouch and Frost benefit from having better and more complete teams behind them, and might that be the difference between legend and statistic?

 

[Bowfin]

Where do you suppose Armstrong would be on the depth chart for any other Big Ten team? (excluding Ohio State, of course)

 

[Bowfin]

Tommy Armstrong is on pace to become the most prolific offensive player in the long, rich history of Nebraska football.

How do you feel about that?

Discuss.

Historically speaking, starting Nebraska quarterbacks are supposed to be sitting on the bench during the fourth quarter, letting the backups do mop up duty. The fact that Armstrong is still on the field with 2:00 left on the clock trying to scratch out a first down helps him to amass yardage, although it is disheartening as heck...historically speaking...

 

[84HuskerLaw]

Tommy Armstrong is on pace to become the most prolific offensive player in the long, rich history of Nebraska football.

How do you feel about that?

Discuss.

Historically speaking, starting Nebraska quarterbacks are supposed to be sitting on the bench during the fourth quarter, letting the backups do mop up duty. The fact that Armstrong is still on the field with 2:00 left on the clock trying to scratch out a first down helps him to amass yardage, although it is disheartening as heck...historically speaking...

Yes, the passing yards only count for half as much as rushing yards. The QBs who handed the ball off the most are the "best" .

 

[HuskerShark]

Where do you suppose Armstrong would be on the depth chart for any other Big Ten team? (excluding Ohio State, of course)

I think he would be a starter for every B1G team except tOSU and MSU. Maybe Iowa also since their QB has quietly had a very good and efficient year.

A lot of us take for granted what Tommy brings to the table. He is inconsistent at times for sure, but he is the only reason we have had a chance to win all these games, and he for sure isn't the main reason we've lost them.

 

[Bowfin]

The QBs who handed the ball off the most are the "best"

Does that mean that you would prefer an Armstrong over a Humm, Ferragamo, Frazier, Gill, Frost, Gdowski, Ganz, Crouch, or Beringer? If so, which ones are would it be all of them?

 

[Bowfin]

and he for sure isn't the main reason we've lost them.

• Pass on 3rd and 7 against Illinois
• Interception first play in overtime against Miami
• Pick six against Northwestern

Let's just say he wasn't the main reason we lost those three games, but he had a strong supporting role.

Armstrong was a major factor in picking the white pants for the new surrender uniforms, though, and I don't think he gets enough credit for those.

 

[HuskerShark]

and he for sure isn't the main reason we've lost them.

• Pass on 3rd and 7 against Illinois
• Interception first play in overtime against Miami
• Pick six against Northwestern

Let's just say he wasn't the main reason we lost those three games, but he had a strong supporting role.
Armstrong was a major factor in picking the white pants for the new surrender uniforms, though, and I don't think he gets enough credit for those.

Vs Illinois - bad decision, yes, but defense still should never have allowed that last drive. And the play calling that day was horrendous.

Vs Miami - he is the only reason we didn't get beat by 40 in that game. He was a mad man out there making plays most of the second half.

Vs Northwestern - probably his biggest blunder of the season, potentially his career, I'll give you that. But our OL getting dominated, WRs dropping perfect throws, and lack of containment from our D on the long QB runs were by far more hurtful than that.

 

[Bowfin]

I think he would be a starter for every B1G team except tOSU and MSU. Maybe Iowa also since their QB has quietly had a very good and efficient year.

I don't think Indiana would trade a healthy Nate Sudfeld and if Penn State's Hackenberg doesn't die behind that shoddy offensive line, he has a shot of being drafted.