Are Native American sports mascots racist or demeaning?
- Thread starter NUance
- Start date
VectorVictor
Heisman Trophy Winner
Frankly, I don't think it's for us or the NCAA to decide--as long as the tribe in question and the school can come to an agreement, the NCAA should stay out. If the tribe and school can't see eye to eye on this, then the school should respectfully make other arrangements, and the tribe should at least extend the courtesy of letting the school wean the fans from the mascot (instead of asking for an overnight break). Same goes for other schools using the name of a particular tribe--let the school and the tribe hash it out, and the NCAA needs to stay the heck out.
But the thing is, the Fighting Sioux (or other tribe specifically mentioned) is a completely different issue than, say, Redskins, as Redskins was considered a derogatory term for Native Americans by some.
But the thing is, the Fighting Sioux (or other tribe specifically mentioned) is a completely different issue than, say, Redskins, as Redskins was considered a derogatory term for Native Americans by some.
HuskerFanChuck
Special Teams Player
The sticking point, as I recall, is that a second Sioux tribe didn't vote in favor of them keeping the name and mascot. That was the condition, I believe, placed on the teams that had Native American names, that they had to get approval from the local tribe to keep using the name. Seminoles did, which is why they haven't had to change. The Sioux got permission from one tribe, which I believe one of the major players in forcing the school to keep the name is from. Another tribe's leadership wouldn't allow a vote of the tribe. And so, the NCAA has decided to force the Sioux to remove the name and mascot. A petition drive was held in ND with enough signatures to get the matter placed on the ballot up there, and when a valid petition like that is filed in ND, the law affected by the petition. is basically placed on hold until the matter can be placed on the ballot and voted on. As I recall, the state has passed a law last year forcing the school to keep the name and the mascot, and then passed another law stating the school could remove them. The petition was to invalidate the second law, therefore still requiring the school to keep the name and mascot. So... the school is required, by state law, at this point until the matter is decided at the ballot box to keep the name and mascot.
I think the NCAA has WAY overstepped their bounds here, and I think legally, if they choose to enforce the forfeitures, legal action for several actions may very well be within bounds and justified. We'll see what happens, but there are plenty of Sioux tribesmen and others residents in ND that seem to be willing to push the issue. One of the main backers, and for the life of me I can't remember his name as I type this, has pretty much stated they gave the name to the school to use as a sign of respect and honor many years ago, and that he felt it was incredibly insulting to his tribe that the NCAA thought they could come in and force UND to remove it.
I'm a big supporter of the school and keeping the mascot, and think the overly PC stuff needs to stop in this nation. It drives wedges rather than avoiding confrontation. It's extremely petty, in the general scheme of things.
I think the NCAA has WAY overstepped their bounds here, and I think legally, if they choose to enforce the forfeitures, legal action for several actions may very well be within bounds and justified. We'll see what happens, but there are plenty of Sioux tribesmen and others residents in ND that seem to be willing to push the issue. One of the main backers, and for the life of me I can't remember his name as I type this, has pretty much stated they gave the name to the school to use as a sign of respect and honor many years ago, and that he felt it was incredibly insulting to his tribe that the NCAA thought they could come in and force UND to remove it.
I'm a big supporter of the school and keeping the mascot, and think the overly PC stuff needs to stop in this nation. It drives wedges rather than avoiding confrontation. It's extremely petty, in the general scheme of things.
T_O_Bull
All-American
This offends me. You forgot about SIOUX FALLS!Does this mean Sioux City has to find a new name.
T_O_B
G_B_R
I say North Dakota drop the name and cut ties with them. Very few people remember the losers in wars and requiring them to change will even make it less that anyone cares about the Sioux anymore. They should be honored that the school even cared to have a mascot after them to help carry on NA history.
T_O_Bull
All-American
Vizsla1
Starter
Lifted from an email sent to me today...
No matter which side you are on in the matter of renaming the Washington Redskins, this is funny.
[SIZE=18pt]Here is an e-mail sent to Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune after an article he published concerning a name change for the Washington Redskins.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Dear Mr. Page...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]I agree with our Native American population. I am highly insulted by the racially charged name of the Washington Redskins. One might argue that to name a professional football team after Native Americans would exalt them as fine warriors, but nay, nay. We must be careful not to offend, and in the spirit of political correctness and courtesy, we must move forward.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Let's ditch the Kansas City Chiefs, the Atlanta Braves and the Cleveland Indians. If your shorts are in a wad because of the reference the name Redskins makes to skin color, then we need to get rid of the Cleveland Browns.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The Carolina Panthers obviously were named to keep the memory of militant Blacks from the 60's alive. Gone. It's offensive to us white folk.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The New York Yankees offend the Southern population. Do you see a team named for the Confederacy? No! There is no room for any reference to that tragic war that cost this country so many young men's lives.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]I am also offended by the blatant references to the Catholic religion among our sports team names. Totally inappropriate to have the New Orleans Saints, the Los Angeles Angels or the San Diego Padres.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Then there are the team names that glorify criminals who raped and pillaged. We are talking about the horrible Oakland Raiders, the Minnesota Vikings, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Pittsburgh Pirates![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Now, let us address those teams that clearly send the wrong message to our children. The San Diego Chargers promote irresponsible fighting or even spending habits. Wrong message to our children.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The New York Giants and the San Francisco Giants promote obesity, a growing childhood epidemic. Wrong message to our children.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The Cincinnati Reds promote downers/barbiturates. Wrong message to our children.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The Milwaukee Brewers. Well that goes without saying. Wrong message to our children.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]So, there you go. We need to support any legislation that comes out to rectify this travesty, because the government will likely become involved with this issue, as they should. Just the kind of thing the do-nothing Congress loves.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]As a diehard Oregon State fan, my wife and I, with all of this in mind, suggest it might also make some sense to change the name of the Oregon State women's athletic teams to something other than "the Beavers”[/SIZE][SIZE=24pt] [/SIZE][SIZE=18pt](especially when they play Southern California. Do we really want the Trojans sticking it to the Beavers???)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]I always love your articles and I generally agree with them. As for the Redskins name I would suggest they change the name to the “Foreskins” to better represent their community, paying tribute to the d!(k heads in Congress[/SIZE]
No matter which side you are on in the matter of renaming the Washington Redskins, this is funny.
[SIZE=18pt]Here is an e-mail sent to Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune after an article he published concerning a name change for the Washington Redskins.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Dear Mr. Page...[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]I agree with our Native American population. I am highly insulted by the racially charged name of the Washington Redskins. One might argue that to name a professional football team after Native Americans would exalt them as fine warriors, but nay, nay. We must be careful not to offend, and in the spirit of political correctness and courtesy, we must move forward.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Let's ditch the Kansas City Chiefs, the Atlanta Braves and the Cleveland Indians. If your shorts are in a wad because of the reference the name Redskins makes to skin color, then we need to get rid of the Cleveland Browns.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The Carolina Panthers obviously were named to keep the memory of militant Blacks from the 60's alive. Gone. It's offensive to us white folk.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The New York Yankees offend the Southern population. Do you see a team named for the Confederacy? No! There is no room for any reference to that tragic war that cost this country so many young men's lives.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]I am also offended by the blatant references to the Catholic religion among our sports team names. Totally inappropriate to have the New Orleans Saints, the Los Angeles Angels or the San Diego Padres.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Then there are the team names that glorify criminals who raped and pillaged. We are talking about the horrible Oakland Raiders, the Minnesota Vikings, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Pittsburgh Pirates![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Now, let us address those teams that clearly send the wrong message to our children. The San Diego Chargers promote irresponsible fighting or even spending habits. Wrong message to our children.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The New York Giants and the San Francisco Giants promote obesity, a growing childhood epidemic. Wrong message to our children.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The Cincinnati Reds promote downers/barbiturates. Wrong message to our children.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The Milwaukee Brewers. Well that goes without saying. Wrong message to our children.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]So, there you go. We need to support any legislation that comes out to rectify this travesty, because the government will likely become involved with this issue, as they should. Just the kind of thing the do-nothing Congress loves.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]As a diehard Oregon State fan, my wife and I, with all of this in mind, suggest it might also make some sense to change the name of the Oregon State women's athletic teams to something other than "the Beavers”[/SIZE][SIZE=24pt] [/SIZE][SIZE=18pt](especially when they play Southern California. Do we really want the Trojans sticking it to the Beavers???)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]I always love your articles and I generally agree with them. As for the Redskins name I would suggest they change the name to the “Foreskins” to better represent their community, paying tribute to the d!(k heads in Congress[/SIZE]
StPaulHusker
Banned
The Cleveland Indians mascot has got to be the most racist logo of them all.
Redskins name is equal in poor taste
Redskins name is equal in poor taste
NUance
Assistant Coach
the.sock.puppet
Three-Star Recruit
I was a Fighting Sioux. I have an All American honor as a Fighting Sioux. That will never change in my mind.
Of the 6-8 mascots I have represented over my athletic career, the Fighting Sioux logo was the only one I truly cared to wear and represent with genuine pride.
For me, personally, it is disappointing. I am not an Indian though so I refrain from anger.
Of the 6-8 mascots I have represented over my athletic career, the Fighting Sioux logo was the only one I truly cared to wear and represent with genuine pride.
For me, personally, it is disappointing. I am not an Indian though so I refrain from anger.
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walksalone
Heisman Trophy Winner
I have two fighting sioux jerseys, that I continue to wear with pride. Being a member of the particular tribe, I'll wear them, no matter how much hell I'll catch...
killer cacti
All-Conference
Exactly right. Like it or not, it's not for white people or others who are not part of the Sioux Nation to decide what is or isn't offensive to them. They, and other Native American peoples, were the victims of a genocide by any agreed-upon definition of the word. Simply naming a sports team after them, even if it isn't done out of malice, isn't exactly giving them a place of honor among caricatures (e.g. Cornhuskers and Sooners) and animals. It wouldn't go over very well if German sports teams named their teams or weapons after Jews (especially if they'd won the war).the.sock.puppet said:
As for the "fighting Irish" moniker, Irish people are more than welcome to protest the name, which was itself very likely foisted upon Notre Dame as an insult in the 19th century by bigots who linked Catholicism with the Irish and hated the Irish. The university (or at least its students, much to the chagrin of the administration) embraced the slur to rub it in the bigots' faces (at least, that's the version of the story I've heard).
So, yeah, I guess if people want to, they can act like these names are harmless and play the "what's the big deal?" card, but that's really a decontexualized, ahistorical point of view. One that's really easy to hold when the issue doesn't actually affect you.
Here, let's see if there's a way to take this to a personal level-- let's say there was a family that killed most of your family and took their ranch land-- then, they named their barn after your family to "honor" you. Wouldn't that actually feel like more of an insult than a badge of honor?
walksalone
Heisman Trophy Winner
Not you again, waving the flag for white folks that want to make it right for us natives...
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Hooked on Huskers
All-Conference
My wild guess, majority of native america people will be proud of Redskins motto.
How about Atlanta Braves? FSU Seminoles? Illinois Illini? Cleveland Indians? My HS nickname was Sioux Falls Warriors.
Used to be Stanford and Arkansas State nicknames was Indians.
How about Atlanta Braves? FSU Seminoles? Illinois Illini? Cleveland Indians? My HS nickname was Sioux Falls Warriors.
Used to be Stanford and Arkansas State nicknames was Indians.