Armstrong at QB

[74Hunter]

If we want to complain about 50% completion percentages, let's start with Tommie Frazier's career sub-.500 completion percentage, and ask ourselves why we were able to win so many games with that kind of quarterback.

Or Scott Frost's 54% completion percentage.

Or Eric Crouch's career 51% completion percentage.

Again, apples and orangutans. They played in totally different systems and 50% won't cut when the coach wants a 50/50 run/pass ratio.

Frazier and Frost won MNCs. Crouch won the Big 12, the Heisman, and played in a national championship game.

Armstrong lost us the chance to win a weak division with his play against MSU.

Wow.

Where was I wrong?

You mean besides your placement of blame for that game?

I suggest if you're upset with Nebraska's development of QB talent, and you may have good reason to be with Tommy and a former Elite 11 QB languishing in the third string, that you should ask how these kids are being coached. And why, specifically there is a dedicated coach for a position that the OC. has to be shamed into using in a press conference and not one to actually help along a QB in what appears to be an overly complicated system.

I mean, that's probably easier than demanding a 20 year old "get it", then judging him when inevitably fails.

So,are you saying that his 4 turnovers didn't directly effect that loss and subsequently us losing the chance to win the division and play in Indy?

But I'd agree that not having a dedicated QB coach is at least a questionable decision.

 

[Abdullah the Butcher]

Nebraska still would have missed Indy because of Iowa.

 

[Branno]

Outside of Nebraska, most college football analysts see a lot of upside in Tommy Armstrong. They see the young QB mistakes, too, but they are generally the mistakes of a competitor convinced he can make big things happen. Not the worst trait. Especially when he makes big things happen.

Apparently Tommy has also been granted a lot of authority to change plays as he sees fit, coming to the line and recognizing a defensive shift. He has the unsurprising tendancy to call his own number -- keeping the ball himself or going for the highlight reel throw -- and given his overall success rate it will be hard to talk him down from this. He's the nation's #9 leader in total offense.

But as defenses now shift to stopping Armstrong first it should open things back up for Ameer Abdullah, who hasn't been ignored as much as he's been semi-neutralized the past two games.

Armstrong gives Nebraska a lot of good options. It's nice to have a lot of good options.

not really, most defenses are going to play to stop the run and dare Tommie to throw.....they just aren't convinced that he can beat them with his arm and neither am i....

Fresno State played to stop the run, dared Tommy to throw. And he beat them with his arm.

Can he do that for a whole season?

Well that's why they play the games.

But the line between cautious and pessamistic around here is hard to read, and a lot of evidence is being ignored in order to be crabby.

e.g. if I'm reading this correctly, it's "not really" nice to have a lot of good options.

No, we want him to have more options, and use them when necessary. TA left a lot of points off the scoreboard because of trying to force the big play. It's awesome when he hits it, but it kills drives when he doesn't.

And the hypothetical, "can he win games with his arm all season" was played out last year and it didn't go so well. When we needed him to make throws against teams like MSU his arm was a liability.

The question I would like to ask though, is why can't I (or anyone else) be critical and at the same time supportive of a player now? TMart got ripped to shreds, and his numbers were a lot better. AA got criticized for his fumbling problem, and no one batted an eye. TA has some problems in the passing game, but he makes a few big plays and all of a sudden any criticism is taboo on this board.

 

[Hunter94]

Outside of Nebraska, most college football analysts see a lot of upside in Tommy Armstrong. They see the young QB mistakes, too, but they are generally the mistakes of a competitor convinced he can make big things happen. Not the worst trait. Especially when he makes big things happen.

Apparently Tommy has also been granted a lot of authority to change plays as he sees fit, coming to the line and recognizing a defensive shift. He has the unsurprising tendancy to call his own number -- keeping the ball himself or going for the highlight reel throw -- and given his overall success rate it will be hard to talk him down from this. He's the nation's #9 leader in total offense.

But as defenses now shift to stopping Armstrong first it should open things back up for Ameer Abdullah, who hasn't been ignored as much as he's been semi-neutralized the past two games.

Armstrong gives Nebraska a lot of good options. It's nice to have a lot of good options.

not really, most defenses are going to play to stop the run and dare Tommie to throw.....they just aren't convinced that he can beat them with his arm and neither am i....

Fresno State played to stop the run, dared Tommy to throw. And he beat them with his arm.

Can he do that for a whole season?

Well that's why they play the games.

But the line between cautious and pessamistic around here is hard to read, and a lot of evidence is being ignored in order to be crabby.

e.g. if I'm reading this correctly, it's "not really" nice to have a lot of good options.

No, we want him to have more options, and use them when necessary. TA left a lot of points off the scoreboard because of trying to force the big play. It's awesome when he hits it, but it kills drives when he doesn't.

And the hypothetical, "can he win games with his arm all season" was played out last year and it didn't go so well. When we needed him to make throws against teams like MSU his arm was a liability.

The question I would like to ask though, is why can't I (or anyone else) be critical and at the same time supportive of a player now? TMart got ripped to shreds, and his numbers were a lot better. AA got criticized for his fumbling problem, and no one batted an eye. TA has some problems in the passing game, but he makes a few big plays and all of a sudden any criticism is taboo on this board.

Tommie is barely completing 55% of his passes and he is staring his receivers down way too often.......as the competition gets better, i am afraid his weaknesses will be exposed. when he faces a good secondary and they shut down the run, we will finally get a read on how much he has improved...Fresno was not a good test...let's hope he works on some things in practice...our QB coach will be a big help........

 

[knapplc]

The idea that the competition will get better but Tommy will remain static is kinda silly. Tommy can get better at things. He's made improvements over last year already.

 

[zoogs]

> Frazier and Crouch played in different systems so their completion % isn't applicable

> compares Tommy Armstrong's completion % to spread passing QBs on pass-heavy teams

I hope Tommy gets much better with his throwing, he really does miss on a lot of throws (behind the WR, etc). He has good form and delivery, etc, just needs to polish it up and get better. But as long as we are attempting so many low-percentage passes (long balls), his completion % will look different than QBs who play dink and dunk. If he can get to 60%+, it would be pretty stellar, as opposed to baseline acceptable in a more exclusively safe pass offense. This type of offense actually plays to his strengths, imagine that.

It's not taboo to disagree. But the extent and nature of some of the criticism seems to be wildly irrational sometimes.

And knapp's exactly right, what have we seen from Tommy and the attitude he displays that suggests he'll be anything less than the single hardest worker on this team?

 

[Hunter94]

The idea that the competition will get better but Tommy will remain static is kinda silly. Tommy can get better at things. He's made improvements over last year already.

i would support the idea he is running the ball better and managing the game better, i don't see that his accuracy or pass completion rate has improved........

 

[BigRedBuster]

Outside of Nebraska, most college football analysts see a lot of upside in Tommy Armstrong. They see the young QB mistakes, too, but they are generally the mistakes of a competitor convinced he can make big things happen. Not the worst trait. Especially when he makes big things happen.

Apparently Tommy has also been granted a lot of authority to change plays as he sees fit, coming to the line and recognizing a defensive shift. He has the unsurprising tendancy to call his own number -- keeping the ball himself or going for the highlight reel throw -- and given his overall success rate it will be hard to talk him down from this. He's the nation's #9 leader in total offense.

But as defenses now shift to stopping Armstrong first it should open things back up for Ameer Abdullah, who hasn't been ignored as much as he's been semi-neutralized the past two games.

Armstrong gives Nebraska a lot of good options. It's nice to have a lot of good options.

not really, most defenses are going to play to stop the run and dare Tommie to throw.....they just aren't convinced that he can beat them with his arm and neither am i....

Fresno State played to stop the run, dared Tommy to throw. And he beat them with his arm.

Can he do that for a whole season?

Well that's why they play the games.

But the line between cautious and pessamistic around here is hard to read, and a lot of evidence is being ignored in order to be crabby.

e.g. if I'm reading this correctly, it's "not really" nice to have a lot of good options.

No, we want him to have more options, and use them when necessary. TA left a lot of points off the scoreboard because of trying to force the big play. It's awesome when he hits it, but it kills drives when he doesn't.

And the hypothetical, "can he win games with his arm all season" was played out last year and it didn't go so well. When we needed him to make throws against teams like MSU his arm was a liability.

The question I would like to ask though, is why can't I (or anyone else) be critical and at the same time supportive of a player now? TMart got ripped to shreds, and his numbers were a lot better. AA got criticized for his fumbling problem, and no one batted an eye. TA has some problems in the passing game, but he makes a few big plays and all of a sudden any criticism is taboo on this board.

I personally don't have any problem with pointing out where a player needs to improve. However, there are some things that drive me nuts.

a) Greatly exaggerating a negative that a player has. It happens all the friggen time with Husker fans. Like the point of staring down receivers. Yes, TA does that from time to time. But, to listen to or read what some fans say it sounds like it's a constant problem. In fact, this year he has done a pretty dang good job of looking off coverage most of the time.

b) Coming up with criticism that seems like people are watching a completely different game. Example. I saw recently where someone was complaining that he makes bad reads on the zone read. Really??? I have come out of the last three games thinking he has ran both types of options very well or at least greatly improved over last year. Has he made a mistake here or there? Sure, that happens with every QB who has ever played the game.

c) Constantly harping on that our QBs never improve. Really??? This comment is so baffling to me I don't even know how to respond. They typically bring up the fact that we have an elite 11 QB wallowing in 3rd string as an example. Really?? We have a QB who is close to the top statistically in the nation. We have another one who most would think is at least a decent back up that has been in the program a year longer. Third string as a redshirt Freshman is not a bad thing when you have talent ahead of you and it's not evidence that there is problems with development.

d) When a player comes out of their freshman year and fans automatically dismiss him as not the one who is going to succeed here because they weren't impressed with him as a freshman. WTH???

To summarize, there are some fans (maybe not you) who constantly do nothing but harp on the negatives and claim they "know" XYZ player is never going to succeed even though so far this year that player has succeeded.

personally, I would think that would really suck being that type of fan. Where is the fun in that? Why not point out the great things players are doing, be happy for that and...oh yeah...I hope he improves in XYZ....?

Sorry for the rant.

 

[74Hunter]

Nebraska still would have missed Indy because of Iowa.

Possibly, but there is no way to tell what their mentality would have been if the go into the Iowa game with a shot at Indy. Could have made the difference in winning and losing.

 

[Hunter94]

> Frazier and Crouch played in different systems so their completion % isn't applicable

> compares Tommy Armstrong's completion % to spread passing QBs on pass-heavy teams

I hope Tommy gets much better with his throwing, he really does miss on a lot of throws (behind the WR, etc). He has good form and delivery, etc, just needs to polish it up and get better. But as long as we are attempting so many low-percentage passes (long balls), his completion % will look different than QBs who play dink and dunk. If he can get to 60%+, it would be pretty stellar, as opposed to baseline acceptable in a more exclusively safe pass offense. This type of offense actually plays to his strengths, imagine that.

It's not taboo to disagree. But the extent and nature of some of the criticism seems to be wildly irrational sometimes.

And knapp's exactly right, what have we seen from Tommy and the attitude he displays that suggests he'll be anything less than the single hardest worker on this team?

how did his work ethic become an issue? who questioned that??.....he is without a doubt a hard working kid........his decision making and vision are still a bit suspect.

 

[Branno]

> Frazier and Crouch played in different systems so their completion % isn't applicable

> compares Tommy Armstrong's completion % to spread passing QBs on pass-heavy teams

I hope Tommy gets much better with his throwing, he really does miss on a lot of throws (behind the WR, etc). He has good form and delivery, etc, just needs to polish it up and get better. But as long as we are attempting so many low-percentage passes (long balls), his completion % will look different than QBs who play dink and dunk. If he can get to 60%+, it would be pretty stellar, as opposed to baseline acceptable in a more exclusively safe pass offense. This type of offense actually plays to his strengths, imagine that.

It's not taboo to disagree. But the extent and nature of some of the criticism seems to be wildly irrational sometimes.

And knapp's exactly right, what have we seen from Tommy and the attitude he displays that suggests he'll be anything less than the single hardest worker on this team?

That's all I want is for him to improve. I just point out specifics instead of saying "I'd like him to improve" and leave it at that (which is what you and Knapp are doing).

On the specific issue that we attempt so many low-percentage passes, I think a good portion of that is on Tommy (there is a reason for the check down) and I'd like to see improved decision making on his part. I love plays like the throw to Westercamp against FSU, even if I didn't get to see it live. I love big runs by AA and Cross. But we need to be able to sustain drives, and sometimes that means checking down. But God forbid I make this point, or several people will call me a complainer for us having too many big plays.

I make a giant list of positives and negatives, and there is no discussion. Instead of discussion, far too often we get bogged down in judging fans for having an opinion. You take views to the extreme, "He has a criticism of TA! Why does he irrationally hate our QB and want to start the walk-on QB from Grand Island!!!!"

But who am I to argue at this point. Platitudes like this get multiple plus ones and anyone with a dissenting opinion gets lambasted here and in the Woodshed.

 

[knapplc]

The idea that the competition will get better but Tommy will remain static is kinda silly. Tommy can get better at things. He's made improvements over last year already.

i would support the idea he is running the ball better and managing the game better, i don't see that his accuracy or pass completion rate has improved........

So we agree he's made progress. He's 3-0 this year and has two games over 55 points. He's thrown 7/1 TD/INT so far. His completion percentage hovers near the Frazier/Frost/Crouch career mark, and he isn't turning the ball over. His running has improved, and he's doing it against competition that isn't stellar - but he wasn't stellar against similar competition last year. So all things considered, improvement.

There's no reason to presume his improvement is done, or that he isn't better than the guys behind him. And nothing we've seen from any guy behind him says they should be getting the snaps Tommy's getting.

And, he's a sophomore. He's got tons of time to improve. He's in the first third of his career still.

 

[knapplc]

> Frazier and Crouch played in different systems so their completion % isn't applicable

> compares Tommy Armstrong's completion % to spread passing QBs on pass-heavy teams

I hope Tommy gets much better with his throwing, he really does miss on a lot of throws (behind the WR, etc). He has good form and delivery, etc, just needs to polish it up and get better. But as long as we are attempting so many low-percentage passes (long balls), his completion % will look different than QBs who play dink and dunk. If he can get to 60%+, it would be pretty stellar, as opposed to baseline acceptable in a more exclusively safe pass offense. This type of offense actually plays to his strengths, imagine that.

It's not taboo to disagree. But the extent and nature of some of the criticism seems to be wildly irrational sometimes.

And knapp's exactly right, what have we seen from Tommy and the attitude he displays that suggests he'll be anything less than the single hardest worker on this team?

That's all I want is for him to improve. I just point out specifics instead of saying "I'd like him to improve" and leave it at that (which is what you and Knapp are doing).

On the specific issue that we attempt so many low-percentage passes, I think a good portion of that is on Tommy (there is a reason for the check down) and I'd like to see improved decision making on his part. I love plays like the throw to Westercamp against FSU, even if I didn't get to see it live. I love big runs by AA and Cross. But we need to be able to sustain drives, and sometimes that means checking down. But God forbid I make this point, or several people will call me a complainer for us having too many big plays.

I make a giant list of positives and negatives, and there is no discussion. Instead of discussion, far too often we get bogged down in judging fans for having an opinion. You take views to the extreme, "He has a criticism of TA! Why does he irrationally hate our QB and want to start the walk-on QB from Grand Island!!!!"

But who am I to argue at this point. Platitudes like this get multiple plus ones and anyone with a dissenting opinion gets lambasted here and in the Woodshed.

Are +1s really a benchmark of anything? If so, I win every debate on HuskerBoard. If you're not willing to concede every debate to me, we should probably also agree that +1s are a worthless metric by which to measure correctness.

I typed up something in response to your big list of +s & -s, but I trashed it because those were all your opinion, and a lot of the -s were based on "seems." Hard to argue against what things seem like to you. And I don't disagree with a lot of what you said, like I don't disagree that Tommy should look to the check-down more often. He has room to grow there, certainly. But I also think the deep throws are coming in to play more than check-downs because he's being told to look for them to stretch the defense. And they're working quite often. And even when they don't, he's putting the ball in a position where it won't be intercepted - which I see as improvement.

 

[FrankWheeler]

I don't see how people can be upset with the QB play at this point in the season. I'm sure Tommy would be the first person to tell you he'd want a few throws back but he's played really only one bad half so far this year. He's lead the team to a top 11 scoring offense and has the team sitting in the top 5 for yards per play. What more do you really want from him? At this point it seems like the only thing that is going to make some posters happy is a complete turnover in coaching staff and playing nothing but walk-ons for the entire season.

 

[ShawnWatson]

> Frazier and Crouch played in different systems so their completion % isn't applicable

> compares Tommy Armstrong's completion % to spread passing QBs on pass-heavy teams

I hope Tommy gets much better with his throwing, he really does miss on a lot of throws (behind the WR, etc). He has good form and delivery, etc, just needs to polish it up and get better. But as long as we are attempting so many low-percentage passes (long balls), his completion % will look different than QBs who play dink and dunk. If he can get to 60%+, it would be pretty stellar, as opposed to baseline acceptable in a more exclusively safe pass offense. This type of offense actually plays to his strengths, imagine that.

It's not taboo to disagree. But the extent and nature of some of the criticism seems to be wildly irrational sometimes.

And knapp's exactly right, what have we seen from Tommy and the attitude he displays that suggests he'll be anything less than the single hardest worker on this team?

That's all I want is for him to improve. I just point out specifics instead of saying "I'd like him to improve" and leave it at that (which is what you and Knapp are doing).

On the specific issue that we attempt so many low-percentage passes, I think a good portion of that is on Tommy (there is a reason for the check down) and I'd like to see improved decision making on his part. I love plays like the throw to Westercamp against FSU, even if I didn't get to see it live. I love big runs by AA and Cross. But we need to be able to sustain drives, and sometimes that means checking down. But God forbid I make this point, or several people will call me a complainer for us having too many big plays.

I make a giant list of positives and negatives, and there is no discussion. Instead of discussion, far too often we get bogged down in judging fans for having an opinion. You take views to the extreme, "He has a criticism of TA! Why does he irrationally hate our QB and want to start the walk-on QB from Grand Island!!!!"

But who am I to argue at this point. Platitudes like this get multiple plus ones and anyone with a dissenting opinion gets lambasted here and in the Woodshed.

I actually responded to you in the woodshed explaining why the number of big plays has gone up, I used actual reasoning and you decided not to respond. You are all over the map right now and making little to no sense.