Armstrong at QB

[74Hunter]

I don't see how people can be upset with the QB play at this point in the season. I'm sure Tommy would be the first person to tell you he'd want a few throws back but he's played really only one bad half so far this year. He's lead the team to a top 11 scoring offense and has the team sitting in the top 5 for yards per play. What more do you really want from him? At this point it seems like the only thing that is going to make some posters happy is a complete turnover in coaching staff and playing nothing but walk-ons for the entire season.

Let's wait and see what happens against a decent defense. As of now, his completion % is horrible, he's missed way too many wide open receivers, he doesn't check down enough, he's had too many potential INTs dropped, and this had led to too many 3 and outs with very little sustained scoring drives.
Against decent defenses when his ypc drops back to 3 yards, those INTs aren't dropped, those missed opportunities could be a killer. Also , not being able to sustain drives is going to hurt the defense, especially the DL late in the year when they're beat up.

Edit: he als likely won't have a nice clean pocket like he has had the first 3 games.

 

[TheSker]

If the debate about the performance of the quarterback is about completion percentage and checkdowns.......as opposed to INTs and fumbles......life in Huskerland ain't all that bad right now.

 

[TheSker]

TMart got ripped to shreds, and his numbers were a lot better. AA got criticized for his fumbling problem, and no one batted an eye. TA has some problems in the passing game, but he makes a few big plays and all of a sudden any criticism is taboo on this board.

If I were a betting man, I'd place a lot of money that Armstrong and/or Abduallah would be getting quite a bit of criticism if they were fumbling. So far, they are not. Thus, no criticism.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

If we want to complain about 50% completion percentages, let's start with Tommie Frazier's career sub-.500 completion percentage, and ask ourselves why we were able to win so many games with that kind of quarterback.

Or Scott Frost's 54% completion percentage.

Or Eric Crouch's career 51% completion percentage.

Again, apples and orangutans. They played in totally different systems and 50% won't cut when the coach wants a 50/50 run/pass ratio.

Frazier and Frost won MNCs. Crouch won the Big 12, the Heisman, and played in a national championship game.

Armstrong lost us the chance to win a weak division with his play against MSU.

Wow.

Where was I wrong?

Beginning, middle and end.

 

[knapplc]

Apples to apples comparison of 2013 - 2014. Tommy vs. two bad FBS opponents and one FCS opponent:

2013 - TD / INT

SDSU - 1 / 0

Illinois - 1 / 0

Purdue - 0 / 3

Total - 2 / 3

2014 - TD / INT

FAU - 2 - 0

MSU - 2 / 1

FSU - 3 / 0

Total - 7 / 1

That's improvement.

 

[Branno]

TMart got ripped to shreds, and his numbers were a lot better. AA got criticized for his fumbling problem, and no one batted an eye. TA has some problems in the passing game, but he makes a few big plays and all of a sudden any criticism is taboo on this board.

If I were a betting man, I'd place a lot of money that Armstrong and/or Abduallah would be getting quite a bit of criticism if they were fumbling. So far, they are not. Thus, no criticism.

Did you even bother to actually read what I wrote? AA has had a career filled with fumbles, and we rightfully pointed out he needed to work on it (which it seems he did). No one had a problem.

But point out TA's accuracy problem and people start grabbing pitchforks.

 

[Branno]

> Frazier and Crouch played in different systems so their completion % isn't applicable

> compares Tommy Armstrong's completion % to spread passing QBs on pass-heavy teams

I hope Tommy gets much better with his throwing, he really does miss on a lot of throws (behind the WR, etc). He has good form and delivery, etc, just needs to polish it up and get better. But as long as we are attempting so many low-percentage passes (long balls), his completion % will look different than QBs who play dink and dunk. If he can get to 60%+, it would be pretty stellar, as opposed to baseline acceptable in a more exclusively safe pass offense. This type of offense actually plays to his strengths, imagine that.

It's not taboo to disagree. But the extent and nature of some of the criticism seems to be wildly irrational sometimes.

And knapp's exactly right, what have we seen from Tommy and the attitude he displays that suggests he'll be anything less than the single hardest worker on this team?

That's all I want is for him to improve. I just point out specifics instead of saying "I'd like him to improve" and leave it at that (which is what you and Knapp are doing).

On the specific issue that we attempt so many low-percentage passes, I think a good portion of that is on Tommy (there is a reason for the check down) and I'd like to see improved decision making on his part. I love plays like the throw to Westercamp against FSU, even if I didn't get to see it live. I love big runs by AA and Cross. But we need to be able to sustain drives, and sometimes that means checking down. But God forbid I make this point, or several people will call me a complainer for us having too many big plays.

I make a giant list of positives and negatives, and there is no discussion. Instead of discussion, far too often we get bogged down in judging fans for having an opinion. You take views to the extreme, "He has a criticism of TA! Why does he irrationally hate our QB and want to start the walk-on QB from Grand Island!!!!"

But who am I to argue at this point. Platitudes like this get multiple plus ones and anyone with a dissenting opinion gets lambasted here and in the Woodshed.

I actually responded to you in the woodshed explaining why the number of big plays has gone up, I used actual reasoning and you decided not to respond. You are all over the map right now and making little to no sense.

I haven't gone to the woodshed since last night. I just check Huskerboard at work when I have a chance. I'm not deciding to do anything, other than avoid getting fired from my job for posting too much on a message board.

 

[knapplc]

Did you even bother to actually read what I wrote? AA has had a career filled with fumbles, and we rightfully pointed out he needed to work on it (which it seems he did). No one had a problem.

But point out TA's accuracy problem and people start grabbing pitchforks.

Go back to last year and NOBODY disagreed that Armstrong needed to clean up his INTs, even though he was a raw Redshirt Freshman. There wasn't much sympathy, he had to stop. After the Sparty game it was pretty much universal.

People are disagreeing with the on-and-on nature of criticizing Tommy today because he isn't turning the ball over like he was last year, against similar competition (as I just pointed out).

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Let's clear up one thing.

Tommy checks down on receivers.

Unless he sees his primary receiver getting separation, which often happens. It's a good thing. It's why he's the primary receiver. Also a sign the pass protection is working.

Sometimes Tommy even looks off a receiver as strategy. He completes those second look passes least as often as he misses a wide-open receiver.

Honestly don't know what games you guys are watching.

The comparison to Frazier, Frost and Crouch's completion percentage is perfectly relevant. We all want that percentage to go up, but to declare it a failure in this particular "system" is ludicrous.

 

[RedDenver]

I don't see how people can be upset with the QB play at this point in the season. I'm sure Tommy would be the first person to tell you he'd want a few throws back but he's played really only one bad half so far this year. He's lead the team to a top 11 scoring offense and has the team sitting in the top 5 for yards per play. What more do you really want from him? At this point it seems like the only thing that is going to make some posters happy is a complete turnover in coaching staff and playing nothing but walk-ons for the entire season.

Let's wait and see what happens against a decent defense. As of now, his completion % is horrible, he's missed way too many wide open receivers, he doesn't check down enough, he's had too many potential INTs dropped, and this had led to too many 3 and outs with very little sustained scoring drives.
Against decent defenses when his ypc drops back to 3 yards, those INTs aren't dropped, those missed opportunities could be a killer. Also , not being able to sustain drives is going to hurt the defense, especially the DL late in the year when they're beat up.

Edit: he als likely won't have a nice clean pocket like he has had the first 3 games.

His completion percentage isn't even close to "horrible". If we're going to play the "potential INT's" card, then the "dropped by his receivers" card means TA's completion percentage is 60+%. Your first paragraph is all your own opinion - and I disagree.

The rest of your post is rampant speculation. I could just as easily speculate that TA will play better against better defenses; therefore, more sustained drives and stuff.

Your post just seems like you're looking for things to criticize.

 

[TheSker]

TMart got ripped to shreds, and his numbers were a lot better. AA got criticized for his fumbling problem, and no one batted an eye. TA has some problems in the passing game, but he makes a few big plays and all of a sudden any criticism is taboo on this board.

If I were a betting man, I'd place a lot of money that Armstrong and/or Abduallah would be getting quite a bit of criticism if they were fumbling. So far, they are not. Thus, no criticism.

Did you even bother to actually read what I wrote? AA has had a career filled with fumbles, and we rightfully pointed out he needed to work on it (which it seems he did). No one had a problem.

But point out TA's accuracy problem and people start grabbing pitchforks.

Because reducing turnovers is a higher priority than completion percentage. Wait....what did you write?

 

[Abdullah the Butcher]

Let's clear up one thing.

Tommy checks down on receivers.

Unless he sees his primary receiver getting separation, which often happens. It's a good thing. It's why he's the primary receiver. Also a sign the pass protection is working.

Sometimes Tommy even looks off a receiver as strategy. He completes those second look passes least as often as he misses a wide-open receiver.

Honestly don't know what games you guys are watching.

The comparison to Frazier, Frost and Crouch's completion percentage is perfectly relevant. We all want that percentage to go up, but to declare it a failure in this particular "system" is ludicrous.

Slight tangent quick, is Westerkamp fast or just good at getting open? He looks slow when running so it's hard to tell. Armstrong should look his way some more to increase his completion % and satisfy the mob.

 

[Branno]

Let's clear up one thing.

Tommy checks down on receivers.

Unless he sees his primary receiver getting separation, which often happens. It's a good thing. It's why he's the primary receiver. Also a sign the pass protection is working.

Sometimes Tommy even looks off a receiver as strategy. He completes those second look passes least as often as he misses a wide-open receiver.

Honestly don't know what games you guys are watching.

The comparison to Frazier, Frost and Crouch's completion percentage is perfectly relevant. We all want that percentage to go up, but to declare it a failure in this particular "system" is ludicrous.

Slight tangent quick, is Westerkamp fast or just good at getting open? He looks slow when running so it's hard to tell. Armstrong should look his way some more to increase his completion % and satisfy the mob.

I'm not sure how fast he actually is, but he looks pretty damned fast.

 

[sd'sker]

first, no one is stopping anyone from criticizing tommy. people are just disagreeing with those criticisms and assessments.

second, here is my point by point rebuttal to the criticisms of tommy:

1. he needs to improve; he has improved 9:8 to 7:1. to say, "he was bad last year, just wait until we play good teams" is to ignore his ability to improve and his improvements thus far. he has been better against similar teams and no reason he does not continue to improve until we play the better teams on our schedule. (all two of them)

2. he throws near picks; so? until they are picks, i am not too concerned. no reason he will not continue to learn how to make reads.

3. when we play better competition, his arm will be a liability; we have already seen him improve from last year. no reason to believe he will not continue to improve. not to mention, we do not play many quality defenses.

4. he threw a lot of picks against mich. st. and had a bad game; a lot of qb's did. they had a salty defense. no one should be surprised a freshman backup qb struggled against them. they were also a one loss team that won the B1G and rose bowl. he has time to grow before we face them again.

5. he threw a pick six against msu and we did not recover until the last :20; he found AA in the flat in that game. but that pick six was a mis-communication. if westerkamp takes the inside route, it is a td for the good guys. westerkamp adjusted and tommy did not. again, a mistake that can be improved upon. furthermore, that was a letdown by the entire team. if the o-line could get a push, he would not have had to pass a single time. it was just an ugly game for all involved.

6. he left points on the field at fsu; we got 55, when people complain about missing check downs and completion percentages after a game like that, it seems nit picky.

7. his passing completion is not good enough; he is leading an extremely proficient offense. and he is putting up great numbers.

again, i hope he will improve. obviously he has room to improve. but he also has improved and has performed extremely well. i will just appreciate the ways he has improved rather than obsess over check downs, completion percentages, and should have been or maybe will be interceptions.

 

[The Dude]

I think some of the people hung up on completion percentage are kind of missing the point of a vertical passing attack.

The Coryell offense attacked vertically through seams, while the West Coast offense moved laterally as much as vertically through angles on curl and slant routes.[24] The Coryell offense had lower completion percentages than the West Coast offense, but the returns were greater on a successful play.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Coryell

Now, I don't think Beck runs a full-blown Air Coryell offense, but the influence is undeniable. It's reasonable to expect around a 60% completion percentage, but it's not the end of the world if we don't quite hit that mark. As long as we hit on a relatively high number of big plays vertically, and the yards per pass average remains relatively high, the offense is working how it's designed to. One thing our offense needs to be highly successful is a deep receiving corps, and I don't think we've had that this year. Getting Burtch and (hopefully) Reilly back should help. All things considered, I think Armstrong has done a decent job so far this year, but definitely has some room to grow. It's reasonable to expect he will.