Armstrong Leading the QB Race
- Thread starter Mavric
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kchusker_chris
All-American
Touchdown Tommie
All-Conference
If the oline can do well on the running game it will be huge. They need to play with a nastiness that had not been seen here for a while! If this happens and A Meer and company run well, Beck better mix in play action to our guys who are solid on the perimeter.
I am nervous that Beck will not be run first and set the offense up for 2nd/3rd and longs because of this.
If Tommy can get the job done by being smart with his throws and running hard keep him going baby!
74Hunter
Banned
A guy with a 3 ypc average, 52% completion percentage, the propensity to fumble, and 1 to 1 TD/INT ratio wouldn't be lethal in any offense.
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kchusker_chris
All-American
74Hunter
Banned
zoogs
Assistant Coach
I've felt this way about our QBs in general for a while now. Not only that, but our immense receiving talent in recent years.
But, that doesn't seem to be the direction we've been heading. Both Bo & Beck seem to really want a guy that can function in the running game ('force the defense to defend 11-on-11', as they've said) and also to make a great commitment to running the ball (which is OK, but it requires the QB to be an important part of that and comes at the cost of utilizing the receivers fully). There seems to be some tug-of-war here, and some feel that Beck would prefer a more balanced split and sometimes takes us in that direction.
That's not who Armstrong is, though. However, I still think he can run a hypothetical offense very well. Yes, our RBs are more than enough to carry the load. But he brings the option game, maybe the zone read game as well into play, and gives the defense one more runner to think about. Three or four yards a pop isn't glamorous, except when it's consistent, keeps us on schedule, and grinds drives away along with the clock. And he clearly has the arm to take the top off the defense. We've seen him launch strike after strike downfield, which are low percentage throws for any QB, but even when they fail to connect, they force the defense to account for it. With deep threats like Kenny Bell, this could be a very effective, very cohesive attack, whether or not it comes with pretty completion stats.
Our short passing game IMO hasn't done much for us, when combined with a lack of deep threat. You'd have to get to Zac Taylor / Joe Ganz levels of WCO efficiency for it to be a part of our game that threatens the defense constantly (and I'm sure if you go back and look, Zac's stats weren't all that earth shattering. And yet, you knew what he was bringing to the table). I think this lack of a dangerous short passing game will continue. There's nothing about our QBs' skillsets that would lead me to think different. Stanton is very young. Our passing game will, or should be, reduced to a change-up role.
With that comes the continued waste of excellent and athletic slot receiver types like Jamal Turner (and maybe Westerkamp and Alonzo Moore after him). If we ran that kind of spread passing attack, I feel we'd see these guys put up insane numbers and become household names across the country. It just doesn't really seem to be what the team is overall best geared towards, but they'll still make impacts -- blocking, huge catches here and there.
knapplc
International Man of Mystery
Agreed, zoogies, and that's the rub. It seems like we're getting pieces for an offense we don't run, or at least don't run consistently.
When they're on they're really on (at least under Martinez the last few years) but when they're off... it's half a disaster.
When they're on they're really on (at least under Martinez the last few years) but when they're off... it's half a disaster.
kchusker_chris
All-American
Yes I'm sure Crouch, Frost, Frazier etc. would have epic numbers in Becks offense too. You haven't seen glimpses of Tommy being a premiere option quarterback? With barely any repetitions, he has shown to be a pretty good one (as an option qb). I don't think applying his numbers in a offense that lacks identity and direction is relevant to how successful he would have been in a TO offense.
True2tRA
Banned
You are so spot on Zoogies. Your last bit about the wasted talent of Jamal Turner and athletes like that I totally agree with. This tug of war on what type of offense we run is interesting to me. That short passing game is exactly what Becks resume' was built on, and if I had to bet, it's what he's wanted all along. Personally I think we are headed in that direction and I think some underestimate Armstrongs capabilities in that type of offense. An offense like that is built around timing. Taylor never had it. Too uncomfortable in the pocket, and too apprehensive letting the ball go. Couldn't blame him could we? On a mistake prone team, he questioned every decision he made. Tommy is a bit more relaxed. His comfort level is there and his timing is definitely going to be developed. This isn't something that happens overnight.
With a rushing attack like ours, there has to be a constant debate on what this offense needs to be. I'm sure Bo wants to manage the clock and play good defense. No high risk, grind it out type of football. Defensively we just haven't been able to live up to that challenge. While I think the defense is getting back on track, I also think Beck has finally got a lot of the tools he's needed in his offense. Especially at QB. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the coming two seasons. Right now,nunless we have drastic improvement from Tommy as far as read and recognition, and timing, I would expect our mindset would be to run first every time. Still I expect to see Beck trying to implement that short passing attack. Even though it might really piss us all off when it goes bad.
With a rushing attack like ours, there has to be a constant debate on what this offense needs to be. I'm sure Bo wants to manage the clock and play good defense. No high risk, grind it out type of football. Defensively we just haven't been able to live up to that challenge. While I think the defense is getting back on track, I also think Beck has finally got a lot of the tools he's needed in his offense. Especially at QB. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the coming two seasons. Right now,nunless we have drastic improvement from Tommy as far as read and recognition, and timing, I would expect our mindset would be to run first every time. Still I expect to see Beck trying to implement that short passing attack. Even though it might really piss us all off when it goes bad.
BigRedBuster
International Man of Mystery
Soooo.....the coaches are supposed to stop recruiting top receivers?
The only thing we know about our passing offense right now is what we don't know. We don't know how good Armstrong is going to be. To me, last year he proved he could throw down field pretty well. He lacked the ability to read defenses in the short passing game. Because of that, I'm not sure we can make a judgement on how accurate he is at that part of the game. Reading defenses is something that a second year QB can take a HUGE jump in. That, along with being "the guy" over spring, summer and fall camp with the starting WRs. I expect we will see a big jump in his passing game all the way around. No, we aren't going to see 72% completion rate with 40 passes per game. I don't think anyone even wants to get to that point in this offense. But, I expect we will see a very different Armstrong this year.
We have weapons at every position in this offense. There is no reason why we can't utilize them all. If Armstrong can improve on reading defense and in turn cut down on turn overs, that would really really make this offense cause DCs to not sleep well.
74Hunter
Banned
74Hunter
Banned
I'll give you that what Tommy does best is run option, and he looks better than TM at it. If he were running it in the mid 90s, no doubt he'd be better.
But a couple of things for certain, if he made some of the reads he did last year, mixed in with his turnover problems, he likely never would have seen the field behind center in those offenses.
knapplc
International Man of Mystery
I have no idea how this conclusion comes from anything zoogies and/or I wrote. For my part, of course we should continue to recruit top WRs. But we MUST recruit QBs that can effectively deliver them the ball, then utilize those WRs enough to justify them returning here. What I'm saying is, we know we have a hell of a stable of RBs. Do we need a QB that can run (as zoogies points out, the philosophy is make them cover 11/11), or do we need an O Line that can block like hell, and a QB who can deliver strikes downfield? I'm thinking that with guys like we have at WR, a QB's running ability is not a priority, especially when you have a potential Heisman candidate at RB right now.
We were 95th in the country in Passing Offense last year, 88th the year before that, 104th the year before that, 113th the year before that. We have the WRs to improve on that dramatically. Do we have the arm in that group of QBs? If so, is it Armstrong? That's all I'm asking.
If it is Tommy Armstrong, and he can run the ground game effectively, too, then great! we've hit the jackpot. If Tommy is just OK in the passing game, say around 50% completion and 3:1 TD/INT ratio, we're wasting the talent we have at the wideout positions.
The only reason we wouldn't be able to utilize them all is if our QB can't pass well enough to keep a healthy passing game. If we can't, those WRs are wasted. That's all I'm saying. And that's not a denunciation of Tommy, it's a commentary on the kind of QB we're recruiting and playing under this regime. I'd take a healthy Taylor Martinez back for another four years in a heartbeat, but the reality is that, even with his better-than-Nebraska-normal passing percentage, we still put up those numbers listed above throughout his career. And we had some pretty good WRs in that era.