Armstrong update

[Enhance]

Tommy has the potential to be better than TMart and that isn't up for debate. However I don't think he's done anything TMart couldn't have done these past two weeks.

Couple of plays today that if Martinez was in the same situation would have scored. The time he reversed field and there was another scramble that the defensive player closed the angle really quick. Having said that, Martinez couldn't have made that pitch fake.

I agree with you. Thing is I think TA has a much higher ceiling than TM and think by the time he's a senior he'll be better than Taylor is now. But I don't think he's our starter this year.

I completely agree, as well. Fans have to be pleased with what TA has done so far, and be proud that he's been able to accomplish two impressive wins against teams we should've beat. But, a fully healthy or damn near close to it TM is still our starter, imho.

As I said in another thread, I actually think this allows you to be more comfortable with Martinez in the run game, knowing TA has earned a lot of trust the last two weeks. I made the comparison to tOSU v. NW from last night - they ran Miller several times in the first half (the only half I watched) despite Miller probably not being fully recovered from that knee surgery. But, they have a backup they know can get the job done and done well, so they don't have to be overly cautious with their Miller play calling.

If TM can come back strong from this injury, I'd think the coaches would feel more comfortable opening up his running abilities.

 

[jamesbond]

I'm really not sure what you Martinez guys have been watching for the last four years. A few great plays here and there do not make up for leading the nation in fumbles three years running and just looking lost almost all the time.

 

[Enhance]

I'm really not sure what you Martinez guys have been watching for the last four years. A few great plays here and there do not make up for leading the nation in fumbles three years running and just looking lost almost all the time.

The underlined is understated, the bolded is legitimate and the italicized is just down right ignorant and completely baseless.

You see what you want to see and ignore the rest - the 20 minutes of highlight reel plays Martinez has made are "a few great plays?" What? The fumbles are definitely a concern and we could all do without, that's fair. But, this is the same QB that ran for more than 1,000 yards last year, led us to several comebacks and does not look lost out there.

If you're going to criticize TM, stick to the stats and the production on the field. You sound uninformed with the rest. Excluding the fumbles, Martinez has been great for Nebraska. And saying he looks lost all the time proves nothing but one thing - you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[True2tRA]

Tommy has the potential to be better than TMart and that isn't up for debate. However I don't think he's done anything TMart couldn't have done these past two weeks.

Whoa. I'm gonna stop you right there young fella. Yes, Tommy's ceiling is higher. No it's not up for debate. It's that last part. Yes, he has done quite a few things Taylor can not do and has not done in four years brother. Again, let's not turn this into a Taylor bash thread please folks, but still, the option has worked far better. That fake pitch TA did was a thing of beauty. Taylor couldn't dream of doing that, he would fumble. Also my biggest point I can make to you guys, the footwork, the pocket presence! The ability to not panic, stand in the face of pressure and make the throws. Not only make the throws but making them in time. I'm telling you guys, this offenses timing is so so key. It hasn't been there in a long time. And Taylor has rarely if ever showed an ability to stand in the pocket, plant his feet and step into a throw. Very very rarely. This too is not up for debate.

Now if Taylor comes back and plays well, so be it. As long as he is helping this team win and not holding them back then that is all I care about. But if Taylor struggles and even if he doesn't struggle, I see no reason these coaches wouldn't continue this two man rotation at QB. If TA and RK are good enough to do it in their eyes, the TA has shown absolutely without a doubt that he and TM could also rotate into games the rest of the season.

 

[True2tRA]

That is if TM becomes healthy enough to do so. This discussion could all be for nought.

 

[RedPhoenix]

When Armstrong gets to 4-0 as a starter he'll have matched Cody Green's record.

And will have eclipsed Tommie Fraziers 3-1 start to his career.

 

[The King]

I'm really not sure what you Martinez guys have been watching for the last four years. A few great plays here and there do not make up for leading the nation in fumbles three years running and just looking lost almost all the time.

The underlined is understated, the bolded is legitimate and the italicized is just down right ignorant and completely baseless.

You see what you want to see and ignore the rest - the 20 minutes of highlight reel plays Martinez has made are "a few great plays?" What? The fumbles are definitely a concern and we could all do without, that's fair. But, this is the same QB that ran for more than 1,000 yards last year, led us to several comebacks and does not look lost out there.

If you're going to criticize TM, stick to the stats and the production on the field. You sound uninformed with the rest. Excluding the fumbles, Martinez has been great for Nebraska. And saying he looks lost all the time proves nothing but one thing - you have no idea what you're talking about.

The fumbles and interceptions are a pretty enormous factor in my personal dislike for him as a starting QB at this point in time, as well as his penchant for making a bad decision at a crucial moment (although it may not be a turnover, a big sack, lack of throwing the ball away, etc - I will say he has gotten better at this, significantly) and he limits our playbook pretty significantly because of Beck's lack of trust in his decision making. Furthermore, he will never be the Taylor of old, running wise. His ankles will never be the same nor will his toe. I greatly appreciate what he has done (especially playing through severe pain) for this school, but he'll never be the runner he was previously, and that coupled with his limitations elsewhere, make it pretty easy to gameplan for him and stop him. To be completely honest, in a big game, at this point, I'd rather see what Tommy can do than see what Taylor can do.

I know teams will load the box and force Taylor to throw and if we are playing a good team, they'll kill our offense.

What do they do against Tommy? Load the box? He is a more accurate thrower. Don't stack the box? He'll run the option. We are a more balanced team with Tommy at the helm, bigger play selection and it will keep a D off balance. Of course, this is only from what I've seen, and we need to see it in an actual game. Tommy is a true dual threat, which makes him a pain to gameplan for. The gameplan for Taylor is "force him to throw - don't let him run, period." Didn't Wisconsin say Taylor will get yards but they knew he'd turn the ball over at some point?

That's the issue.

 

[husker_99]

I'm really not sure what you Martinez guys have been watching for the last four years. A few great plays here and there do not make up for leading the nation in fumbles three years running and just looking lost almost all the time.

The underlined is understated, the bolded is legitimate and the italicized is just down right ignorant and completely baseless.

You see what you want to see and ignore the rest - the 20 minutes of highlight reel plays Martinez has made are "a few great plays?" What? The fumbles are definitely a concern and we could all do without, that's fair. But, this is the same QB that ran for more than 1,000 yards last year, led us to several comebacks and does not look lost out there.

If you're going to criticize TM, stick to the stats and the production on the field. You sound uninformed with the rest. Excluding the fumbles, Martinez has been great for Nebraska. And saying he looks lost all the time proves nothing but one thing - you have no idea what you're talking about.

The fumbles and interceptions are a pretty enormous factor in my personal dislike for him as a starting QB at this point in time, as well as his penchant for making a bad decision at a crucial moment (although it may not be a turnover, a big sack, lack of throwing the ball away, etc - I will say he has gotten better at this, significantly) and he limits our playbook pretty significantly because of Beck's lack of trust in his decision making. Furthermore, he will never be the Taylor of old, running wise. His ankles will never be the same nor will his toe. I greatly appreciate what he has done (especially playing through severe pain) for this school, but he'll never be the runner he was previously, and that coupled with his limitations elsewhere, make it pretty easy to gameplan for him and stop him. To be completely honest, in a big game, at this point, I'd rather see what Tommy can do than see what Taylor can do.

I know teams will load the box and force Taylor to throw and if we are playing a good team, they'll kill our offense.

What do they do against Tommy? Load the box? He is a more accurate thrower. Don't stack the box? He'll run the option. We are a more balanced team with Tommy at the helm, bigger play selection and it will keep a D off balance. Of course, this is only from what I've seen, and we need to see it in an actual game. Tommy is a true dual threat, which makes him a pain to gameplan for. The gameplan for Taylor is "force him to throw - don't let him run, period." Didn't Wisconsin say Taylor will get yards but they knew he'd turn the ball over at some point?

That's the issue.

fully agree.

 

[Enhance]

The King, that's why a healthy TA is a better option than an injured TM, but TM ran for 1,000 yards last year, more than his first year starting IIRC. How do we know that IF he's capable of overcoming the turf toe, that he won't run the same? If TM isn't healthy enough to run then I agree, he shouldn't be our starter. But, the notion that he "looks lost" or has only made "a few great plays" is absolutely ludicrous.

As I've said in other threads, we absolutely have to temper this talk of TA. He has played two really bad defenses. All evidence suggests TA will be a really good player, but until he actually does it, we can't assume he's the better option than TM against a good team.

Edit - This is my biggest concern. I don't want to see TA fail. I love what he's done and he makes me feel more comfortable with what he does, too. But, again, until he actually goes up against a good team, we really don't know a lot about where he is in his progression.

 

[PaulCrewe]

Can we at least temper the TA talk until he has looked across the line at something the somewhat resembles a defense.

I love the potential but there is still so much to improve and work on.

I actually think what gee had done is earned that third series of a game if Taylor comes back healthy. Something I was hoping this staff would do before the season. One you get TA reps, and two Taylor can catch his breath and see what a defense is doing

 

[Hercules]

The King, that's why a healthy TA is a better option than an injured TM, but TM ran for 1,000 yards last year, more than his first year starting IIRC. How do we know that IF he's capable of overcoming the turf toe, that he won't run the same? If TM isn't healthy enough to run then I agree, he shouldn't be our starter. But, the notion that he "looks lost" or has only made "a few great plays" is absolutely ludicrous.

This. Martinez had turf toe his freshman year as well, and he came back as a very effective runner both his sophomore and junior years. Don't know when he'll be fully healthy again after this injury, or when he'll be effective again, but if he gets back to 100%, you're crazy not to put a guy like that in the game. He knows the whole offense, he can progress through his reads, he's a threat to score on any given play, and he is among the most accurate passers in the conference (even after going up against defenses like Michigan and Michigan State, which TA has not done yet).

Also kinda tired of hearing how TA is a better runner than TM. They're styles are so different. TA is never going to be someone who takes it 40 yards for a score (or even 20 yards, maybe), and he's never going to be a 1000 yards rusher like TM. He is shiftier in small places and because of that, he is able to keep you more on schedule at times. But to say that one of those running styles completely outweighs the other is wrong - they're both effective in their own way.

 

[The King]

The King, that's why a healthy TA is a better option than an injured TM, but TM ran for 1,000 yards last year, more than his first year starting IIRC. How do we know that IF he's capable of overcoming the turf toe, that he won't run the same? If TM isn't healthy enough to run then I agree, he shouldn't be our starter. But, the notion that he "looks lost" or has only made "a few great plays" is absolutely ludicrous.
As I've said in other threads, we absolutely have to temper this talk of TA. He has played two really bad defenses. All evidence suggests TA will be a really good player, but until he actually does it, we can't assume he's the better option than TM against a good team.

Edit - This is my biggest concern. I don't want to see TA fail. I love what he's done and he makes me feel more comfortable with what he does, too. But, again, until he actually goes up against a good team, we really don't know a lot about where he is in his progression.

Then why don't we find out how he does against a good team? Personally, I would let Tommy play the first big game and see how he does. If it isn't so hot, let Taylor play. We KNOW Taylor isn't the best QB in big games (I consider these games as against teams with a perceived greater talent level than us.) Taylors turnovers have PROVEN to be an issue is these "big games". And to be honest, our defense is going to allow us to win anything big this year, unless they significantly pick up the pace in the next couple weeks. If anything I want to see if Tommy rises to the occasion or falters. This is partially because I am confident that Taylor will not be above 90% at any point this year.

Furthermore, didn't PaulCrewe say he was waiting to see how TA did this week against Illinois because they have a defense that's "10x better" than SDSU? And now you're saying that they are both worthless.

 

[The King]

The King, that's why a healthy TA is a better option than an injured TM, but TM ran for 1,000 yards last year, more than his first year starting IIRC. How do we know that IF he's capable of overcoming the turf toe, that he won't run the same? If TM isn't healthy enough to run then I agree, he shouldn't be our starter. But, the notion that he "looks lost" or has only made "a few great plays" is absolutely ludicrous.

This. Martinez had turf toe his freshman year as well, and he came back as a very effective runner both his sophomore and junior years. Don't know when he'll be fully healthy again after this injury, or when he'll be effective again, but if he gets back to 100%, you're crazy not to put a guy like that in the game. He knows the whole offense, he can progress through his reads, he's a threat to score on any given play, and he is among the most accurate passers in the conference (even after going up against defenses like Michigan and Michigan State, which TA has not done yet).

Also kinda tired of hearing how TA is a better runner than TM. They're styles are so different. TA is never going to be someone who takes it 40 yards for a score (or even 20 yards, maybe), and he's never going to be a 1000 yards rusher like TM. He is shiftier in small places and because of that, he is able to keep you more on schedule at times. But to say that one of those running styles completely outweighs the other is wrong - they're both effective in their own way.

Don't forget to mention Taylors penchant for fumbles.

He rarely progresses through all of his reads. Really rare. He has horrible pocket presence.

He hasn't proven to be a running threat AT ALL this year. The threat of him going the distance on every play, isn't there right now.

You assume he will get back to 100%. That's a big assumption.

Tommy definitely has his faults, but I prefer a RS FR make the mistakes than a RS SR.

 

[jamesbond]

Throwing out Martinez's stats is a worthless point. He has better stats than all other Nebraska quarterbacks and I certainly would not want him labeled as 'best ever'. I don't care how many yards he has rushed for. I want the guy who I can trust to make a third and long. I love the way the offense looks with him in there. It looks smooth and efficient. I don't care who the opponents are since Martinez has done the same dumb stuff against great defenses and horrible ones.

Hats off to what Martinez has done for Nebraska, but the TEAM is better with Armstrong.

 

[Hercules]

The King, that's why a healthy TA is a better option than an injured TM, but TM ran for 1,000 yards last year, more than his first year starting IIRC. How do we know that IF he's capable of overcoming the turf toe, that he won't run the same? If TM isn't healthy enough to run then I agree, he shouldn't be our starter. But, the notion that he "looks lost" or has only made "a few great plays" is absolutely ludicrous.

This. Martinez had turf toe his freshman year as well, and he came back as a very effective runner both his sophomore and junior years. Don't know when he'll be fully healthy again after this injury, or when he'll be effective again, but if he gets back to 100%, you're crazy not to put a guy like that in the game. He knows the whole offense, he can progress through his reads, he's a threat to score on any given play, and he is among the most accurate passers in the conference (even after going up against defenses like Michigan and Michigan State, which TA has not done yet).

Also kinda tired of hearing how TA is a better runner than TM. They're styles are so different. TA is never going to be someone who takes it 40 yards for a score (or even 20 yards, maybe), and he's never going to be a 1000 yards rusher like TM. He is shiftier in small places and because of that, he is able to keep you more on schedule at times. But to say that one of those running styles completely outweighs the other is wrong - they're both effective in their own way.

Don't forget to mention Taylors penchant for fumbles.

He rarely progresses through all of his reads. Really rare. He has horrible pocket presence.

He hasn't proven to be a running threat AT ALL this year. The threat of him going the distance on every play, isn't there right now.

You assume he will get back to 100%. That's a big assumption.

Tommy definitely has his faults, but I prefer a RS FR make the mistakes than a RS SR.

Yes, this is assuming he's back to 100%. It's all hypothetical. If he's not 100%, by all means, play Armstrong. But if Taylor is back to 100%, he's absolutely a threat to run the ball, and anybody who says otherwise has completely lost their objectivity.

You're right, Taylor has had a penchant for fumbles. Armstrong has fumbled the ball as well, but he's mostly an unknown at this point. Taylor didn't have a fumbles problem two starts into his career either - it was revealed over time. Taylor does do a better job of going through his reads - that's an area that he has improved in a great deal, and I'm not so sure I've seen Armstrong throw to a checkdown receiver yet.