Athletic Department under review

[Mavric]

Why does EVERYTHING have to be a conspiracy?

Is there some hidden reason why you are asking this question?

 

[Enhance]

How many other ADs have picked two coaches in a row that posted .700+ records?

I've picked this bone with you, and others, on this board before - particularly in relation to Pelini, he was 8-17 vs. AP ranked teams (3-9 on the road), had no BCS bowl appearances, no conference titles, had at least 3 losses every year and he was 3-4 in this last 7 November games.

Supporting Pelini by saying he had a .700+ win record is as ridiculous as damning Pelini because he had really poor sideline behavior. Relying on either/or is equally absurd and does not tell the whole story of Bo Pelini and why he was fired. He had very legitimate, well-document performance failures that supported his release.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

The fact that Frank Solich and Bo Pelini landed at Ohio and Youngstown State respectively would suggest that no Power 5 team thinks Nebraska made a terrible mistake.

How many jobs were open during those timeframes?

I don't really take the typical AD's word for it though.

I recall a "where are they now" article that showed among the hires made at P5 schools in '03 and '04, of which there weren't many, Frank had outperformed almost all of his peers. I'm sure some of those ADs are kicking themselves. Granted, Pedey did poison the well with all the rumors and other misinformation he threw out there to justify his move at the time.

Ultimately, both coaches landed where it made sense for them and their families, at least for now. We'll see if and when Bo gets another shot at a P5 position.

Why would a Power 5 AD be kicking himself for not hiring Frank Solich in '04? All he would need to do over the subsequent 12 years is step in with a very modest paycheck and hire him away from Ohio.

I like Frank and think he would have turned the ship around. But let's get one thing straight: those weren't rumors and misinformation, and they long predated Pedersen. I'm glad things worked out the way they did for Frank. His record at Ohio is very similar to Mike Riley's at OSU, fwiw, which is to say unacceptable at Nebraska.

I wouldn't bet against Bo Pelini getting another chance somewhere, but given a very safe landing spot in his hometown school he managed to throw up the same red flags he did at Nebraska, including an embarrassing meltdown that cost his team the game in the season finale, followed by a churlish press conference where he took no responsibility. Bo took a 7-5 Youngstown Squad and went 5-6 with them. Maybe the players didn't buy in. Who knows? Nebraska fans are very understanding about transition years.

Some school might remember the 7 consecutive 9 win seasons, equate him with Nick Saban, conclude he got a raw deal at Nebraska and take a chance on Bo. That won't mean Nebraska made a mistake.

 

[cm husker]

How many other ADs have picked two coaches in a row that posted .700+ records?

I've picked this bone with you, and others, on this board before - particularly in relation to Pelini, he was 8-17 vs. AP ranked teams (3-9 on the road), had no BCS bowl appearances, no conference titles, had at least 3 losses every year and he was 3-4 in this last 7 November games.

Supporting Pelini by saying he had a .700+ win record is as ridiculous as damning Pelini because he had really poor sideline behavior. Relying on either/or is equally absurd and does not tell the whole story of Bo Pelini and why he was fired. He had very legitimate, well-document performance failures that supported his release.

8-17 vs AP ranked teams isn't CFB HOF level, but it's not awful either, especially considering what he inherited. We have already addressed the issues that may have come into play as part of (a) a transition to a new conference and style of play, and (b) the tension in the athletic department starting in 2013. As far as sideline behavior, he was greatly improved, especially in 2014. So please acknowledge the proress he made on that front.

Is Pelini Osborne? No. Is he even a top 10 performer in the country? No. But I think he was solidly in the top 20/25, and NU needs to stop firing coaches for not being Tom Osborne or we'll never develop anyone even close to him in the future.

Anyway, I wasn't supporting Pelini as much as pointing out the absurdity of claiming TO is terrible at picking coaches. Because that's what it is: FREAKING absurd to claim that guys like Person and Eichorst are better at picking coaches.

 

[Enhance]

How many other ADs have picked two coaches in a row that posted .700+ records?

I've picked this bone with you, and others, on this board before - particularly in relation to Pelini, he was 8-17 vs. AP ranked teams (3-9 on the road), had no BCS bowl appearances, no conference titles, had at least 3 losses every year and he was 3-4 in this last 7 November games.

Supporting Pelini by saying he had a .700+ win record is as ridiculous as damning Pelini because he had really poor sideline behavior. Relying on either/or is equally absurd and does not tell the whole story of Bo Pelini and why he was fired. He had very legitimate, well-document performance failures that supported his release.

8-17 vs AP ranked teams isn't CFB HOF level, but it's not awful either, especially considering what he inherited. We have already addressed the issues that may have come into play as part of (a) a transition to a new conference and style of play, and (b) the tension in the athletic department starting in 2013. As far as sideline behavior, he was greatly improved, especially in 2014. So please acknowledge the proress he made on that front.

Is Pelini Osborne? No. Is he even a top 10 performer in the country? No. But I think he was solidly in the top 20/25, and NU needs to stop firing coaches for not being Tom Osborne or we'll never develop anyone even close to him in the future.

Anyway, I wasn't supporting Pelini as much as pointing out the absurdity of claiming TO is terrible at picking coaches. Because that's what it is: FREAKING absurd to claim that guys like Person and Eichorst are better at picking coaches.

I think you partially missed what I was getting at - a lot of factors play into firing a coach, as we all know well enough. It is unfair and misleading, in my opinion, to mention his overall winning percentage as if that is the end all be all. It would be similarly misleading to discuss his poor sideline behavior as if that was the end all be all. Neither of them mean much when intentionally segregated.

As far as TO is concerned... that's more difficult. I don't think his choices for head coach were "terrible." Far from from it. However, both of those hires have since been ousted. Neither of the hires ended up being great and both had their undeniable faults and inadequacies. I'm still not particularly happy about the Solich situation to this day, but it is what is at this point. We are where we are and can really only hope the university of officials learn from the past.

 

[cm husker]

If we can't sum up the adequacy of his hires by pointing to their winning %'s, then I don't think we can sum up their supposed inadequacies by pointing out that they were both "ousted" by one of the worst ADs in history and another guy who may be on his way to those rankings.

As far as segregating record from sideline behavior, many would have been fine with him sacrificing live puppies on the sideline if he'd won two CCs, which is a sad statement about our fans. And to use a less extreme example, people would have been fine with Saban, Spurrier, Dantonio, Coach K's, etc. type behavior, which is all as bad or worse than Bo's, in exchange for championships. They would have even been fine with mid-00s Meyer's type off the field incidents in exchange for wins.

So please don't tell me he was fired as a result of his sideline behavior, or your as much as saying the guys who fired him are hypocritical, inconsistent and lacking in principle. If his behavior meant "he shouldn't be leading young men at UNL" (as was stated) it shouldn't matter if he'd won 3 NC's during the past four years.

But since we know his behavior didn't rise to that level, we also know that his firing was all about (a) a personal pissing match among the administrators, and (b) his supposedly poor results that "aren't good enough at a place like Nebraska."

People should just own the real reasons and stop pretending his behavior was as bad as people claim. He wouldn't even be the most tyrannical coach in the B10 this past year, let alone CFB.

TO did a great job hiring two football coaches, but lesser men mucked it up. This sort of thing happens all of the time.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

People should just own the real reasons and stop pretending his behavior was as bad as people claim. He wouldn't even be the most tyrannical coach in the B10 this past year, let alone CFB.

TO did a great job hiring two football coaches, but lesser men mucked it up. This sort of thing happens all of the time.

Bo Pelini's behavior was precisely as bad as everyone in the country had the chance to witness and listen to. Nobody made that sh#t up.

From a football standpoint, Bo waited until everyone in college football was watching to demonstrate how poorly he had prepared his team.

It was Bo Pelini who tended to cast everything in terms of loyalty and betrayal.

Lesser men aren't to blame for Bo Pelini. Bo handled all that himself.

The fact that it followed him to Youngstown State suggests this was hardly a Nebraska-centric issue.

TO didn't make a mistake. Bo Pelini was a perfectly defensible choice. But when things went bad, Bo went toxic. His firing was justified. This sort of thing happens all the time.

 

[Enhance]

If we can't sum up the adequacy of his hires by pointing to their winning %'s, then I don't think we can sum up their supposed inadequacies by pointing out that they were both "ousted" by one of the worst ADs in history and another guy who may be on his way to those rankings.

As far as segregating record from sideline behavior, many would have been fine with him sacrificing live puppies on the sideline if he'd won two CCs, which is a sad statement about our fans. And to use a less extreme example, people would have been fine with Saban, Spurrier, Dantonio, Coach K's, etc. type behavior, which is all as bad or worse than Bo's, in exchange for championships. They would have even been fine with mid-00s Meyer's type off the field incidents in exchange for wins.

So please don't tell me he was fired as a result of his sideline behavior, or your as much as saying the guys who fired him are hypocritical, inconsistent and lacking in principle. If his behavior meant "he shouldn't be leading young men at UNL" (as was stated) it shouldn't matter if he'd won 3 NC's during the past four years.

But since we know his behavior didn't rise to that level, we also know that his firing was all about (a) a personal pissing match among the administrators, and (b) his supposedly poor results that "aren't good enough at a place like Nebraska."

People should just own the real reasons and stop pretending his behavior was as bad as people claim. He wouldn't even be the most tyrannical coach in the B10 this past year, let alone CFB.

TO did a great job hiring two football coaches, but lesser men mucked it up. This sort of thing happens all of the time.

I think you're focusing in way too much on my mentioning of sideline behavior as if that's why I think he was fired. I don't see where I said that's why I think he was let go. Again, my whole point was that segregating variables is an extremely simple and lazy way to try and prove a point. Nobody should boldly proclaim his winning percentage was reason enough to prove he was a good coach (as you did) any more than someone else should boldly proclaim another individual attribute of his was proof that he was a bad coach.

That's like saying a Mustang is a great car because it has a powerful engine, while glossing over the fact that it doesn't do particularly well in the corners and is somewhat cheaply made.

Taking all the variables into consideration is what led to Pelini's ousting, because I actually agree with you. If he had won a conference title, a BCS game and had a better record against AP ranked teams, he would still be our coach. He isn't the worst coach on the sidelines.

However, he did none of those things.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Bo is gone. Frank is gone.

I know that is news to some people. But, it's the truth.

Believe it or not, people get fired. It's usually not because of one single thing.

 

[cm husker]

So basically, NU should fire their way to a HOF coach. That's exactly what TO and many of us hope to avoid.

Because for every bob stoops who hits the ground running as a first time HC in a P5 conference, there are literally 100s that crashed and burned.

 

[Red Five]

Threads tend to go this way when cm shows up in a discussion

 

[Elf]

And, of course, we can’t forget that Eichorst was selected by Perlman in a process that did not include Eichorst’s predecessor, Tom Osborne, a sore subject in a lot of parts of the state.

OWH

I laugh at the stupidity in bold. Unless Osborne is an employee/contractor of the University in some capacity then he should have ZERO say in what happens there. None. If Osborne wants to have a say in the Univeristy's dealings then maybe he should apply and get hired for an actual job there.

Tom Osborne was the Athletic Director of the University when this happened. Harvey didn't consult with TO regarding a replacement, while TO was still employed by the University.
I've also heard from a few different places that Harvey was looking for a replacement before Tom even said he was going to retire, which triggered the abrupt announcement/press conference that nobody saw coming.

Why did Perlman need to consult with Osborne regarding Osborne's replacement? Remember, the last time Osborne recommended an athletic director we got Steve Pederson.

 

[Elf]

How many other ADs have picked two coaches in a row that posted .700+ records?

I've picked this bone with you, and others, on this board before - particularly in relation to Pelini, he was 8-17 vs. AP ranked teams (3-9 on the road), had no BCS bowl appearances, no conference titles, had at least 3 losses every year and he was 3-4 in this last 7 November games.
Supporting Pelini by saying he had a .700+ win record is as ridiculous as damning Pelini because he had really poor sideline behavior. Relying on either/or is equally absurd and does not tell the whole story of Bo Pelini and why he was fired. He had very legitimate, well-document performance failures that supported his release.

What you said is why I laugh every time someone like cm husker brings up Frank and Bo's winning percentages. There are well documented reasons as to why Frank was fired as well.

 

[cm husker]

And, of course, we cant forget that Eichorst was selected by Perlman in a process that did not include Eichorsts predecessor, Tom Osborne, a sore subject in a lot of parts of the state.

OWH

I laugh at the stupidity in bold. Unless Osborne is an employee/contractor of the University in some capacity then he should have ZERO say in what happens there. None. If Osborne wants to have a say in the Univeristy's dealings then maybe he should apply and get hired for an actual job there.

Tom Osborne was the Athletic Director of the University when this happened. Harvey didn't consult with TO regarding a replacement, while TO was still employed by the University.
I've also heard from a few different places that Harvey was looking for a replacement before Tom even said he was going to retire, which triggered the abrupt announcement/press conference that nobody saw coming.

Why did Perlman need to consult with Osborne regarding Osborne's replacement? Remember, the last time Osborne recommended an athletic director we got Steve Pederson.

Because Osborne is an actual authority.

And Osborne didn't recommend Peterson in the sense that he identified him and pushed for his hiring. In fact, I can't find any public statement from Osborne related to Pederson as an AD candidate. He simply didn't kill his candidacy in '02. I'm sure now he wishes he had.

Ironic that you'd claim that Harvey went to him in '02 but wouldn't in '12.

 

[cm husker]

How many other ADs have picked two coaches in a row that posted .700+ records?

I've picked this bone with you, and others, on this board before - particularly in relation to Pelini, he was 8-17 vs. AP ranked teams (3-9 on the road), had no BCS bowl appearances, no conference titles, had at least 3 losses every year and he was 3-4 in this last 7 November games.
Supporting Pelini by saying he had a .700+ win record is as ridiculous as damning Pelini because he had really poor sideline behavior. Relying on either/or is equally absurd and does not tell the whole story of Bo Pelini and why he was fired. He had very legitimate, well-document performance failures that supported his release.

What you said is why I laugh every time someone like cm husker brings up Frank and Bo's winning percentages. There are well documented reasons as to why Frank was fired as well.

Well documented? How about you provide one single link to these off the field reasons.