Athlon: Big Ten Coaches Talk Anonymously About Conference Foes for 2016

[cm husker]

what many here have ended up arguing is that we are justified in firing any coach who doesn't start off his career with a record equal to a future HOFer (and, imo, the goat).

This isn't true. What's really happened is that one person here (you) reached for the Osborne comparison first, and then others, in response to your claim, pointed out that it's a ridiculous comparison.

That's exactly what is the logical conclusion from people who think Bo wasn't good enough but TO was. Because there's not that much space between their two starts (and Frank's for that matter).

It's ok to have that opinion, but people should own it.

HOF or bust might be the cheer for some but I'm fearful that we'll end up busted if we take that approach.

 

[Landlord]

That's exactly what is the logical conclusion from people who think Bo wasn't good enough but TO was.

For how he acted, Bo wasn't good enough. That's a separate statement entirely from, "You have to be as good as Osborne to be good enough." Nobody has said that. All that has happened is you took the first statement, then you made the TO comparison by saying if Bo wasn't good enough, then Tom wasn't either, and then people responded by saying no, that's ridiculous.

Because there's not that much space between their two starts (and Frank's for that matter).

There's plenty of space. Which makes me confused why you ever brought Osborne up in the first place, as their careers were plenty different 7 years in.

Osborne through 7 seasons:

7 Top-10 finishes

5 Major bowl appearances

2 Major bowl wins

2 Conference Championships

1 30+ point loss

Pelini through 7 seasons:

0 Top-10 finishes

0 Major bowl appearances

0 Major bowl wins

0 Conference Championships

5 30+ point losses

Since you like to oddly harp on the technicalities of officially awarded conference championships so much, let's just drop that stat. Tom had significantly higher highs than Bo did, and Bo had significantly lower lows that Tom did. There's quite a bit of room in between the two.

 

[cm husker]

LoMS,

Be honest, do you think that if Riley is .700 with no CCs during the next 5 years people won't want a change? They'll say his personality is too boring (like they did when TO was "surviving" as HC in the 70s), and they'll want a change.

It always comes down to record, and as the braintrust ADs said, "NU is about winning championships, not games."

LoMS,

You say they are so different, but if Bo wins 1 more game per season (and therefore 1 less loss), how are they so different? And this is under the reality that Bo inherited a much worse program than what TO or Riley or Frank inherited. With a single win swing, he likely would have had some major bowl appearances. He likely would have had at least one top 10 finish. As to the losses, the game is different offensively now than it was back then, but again, TO is the GOAT, so I have little doubt he would have adapted well to today's realities.

The same arguments all applies to Frank, too. Frank, for all the innuendo that sprung up after the disaster hire of Callahan, never had any publicized problems at Nebraska. For spoiled Nebraska fans and an AD who wanted a statue, his record just simply wasn't good enough.

Husker fans need to own their unrealistic expectations before we can develop the collective patience to hire a coach and let him develop. Or, as we had under Devaney, we need a strong AD who understands football and can lay down fire for guys like Frank and Bo (and hopefully Mike if he gets it going).

And this is under the reality that Bo inherited a much worse program than what TO or Riley or Frank inherited.

 

[Landlord]

We definitely have unrealistic expectations.

and

Bo was justly fired.

Frank wasn't, but likely would have been eventually.

 

[Count 'Bility]

Ppl try to use Osborne as some magical case of patience and such. yet forget-or dont know-about the ultimatum after the '77 reg season. Win the liberty bowl or youre gone. The seat was hot. They won it. Then in 1978, finally beat OU. Was in the NC hunt. And went to the Orange Bowl. Then considered bolting for Colorado. This stuff is all documented on multiple,easy to access, NETV documentareis on youtube. One about Osborne. One about Husker football in general. So quite acting like he was always safe. Like someone had some majical crystal ball that he was going to orchestrate some uniquely insane amounts of success a quarter century down the road. This is the definition of revisionist bullsh#t. He had bought himself some more time. The debate will rage on as to whether Solich did. I thought he did. My opinion. Bo DIDNT. What transpired in November of 2014 was another massive failure. ZERO progress was shown in any aspect from 2011 to 2014. Look up stale in the dictionary. There's a picture of Bo Pelini in a gray husker hoodie. It was time.

 

[Redux]

Fine, if Bo wins 1 more game a season/loses 1 less game a season maybe he is retained.

He is still the same guy that swung hats at refs, cussed out our fanbase, called his boss a c**t, got embarassed by Wisconsin 3 times in 4 tries, and managed to lose 3 CCG's with the final one being one of the biggest sh#t shows in Nebraska history.

But yes, lets gloss over ALL of that and other things and just focus on the fact he was right there on the red line of "proper W/L etiquette".

Smh...

 

[Count 'Bility]

All this is about is where a programs believes it stands in terms of pecking order. I have no problem with Nebraska still feeling like it's among the elite and acting as such in dealings with coaches etc. Why not? 93-97 wasnt some flash in the pants fluke era. Nebraska has consistently been at the top for 50years. Jeebus. If programs like Oregon and Mich St and Clemson and Baylor can make hay, why not Nebraska again? Just like OU, Bama, USC, etc. "oh but we dont have the recruiting bla bla bla" bullsh#t. niehter did Clemson, Mich St, Baylor, etc prior to these past few years. And they had NOTHING to sell. So enought with the excuse making horsesh#t. If you wanna make excuses for a failure and be mediocre, go for it. See you in Ames. But theres no room for that crap in Lincoln. Which is why we've fired 3 guys since the last time we had a guy get it figured out. And we'll continue doing so until we get the right guy. THIS IS HOW IT WORKS IN BIGTIME SPORTS. And as god as my witness I'll never get why it's such a hard concept to understand. Like Nebraska is some unique place that doesnt take part in the hard a$$ business antics of college sports. LOL whatevs.

 

[cm husker]

Ppl try to use Osborne as some magical case of patience and such. yet forget-or dont know-about the ultimatum after the '77 reg season. Win the liberty bowl or youre gone. The seat was hot. They won it. Then in 1978, finally beat OU. Was in the NC hunt. And went to the Orange Bowl. Then considered bolting for Colorado. This stuff is all documented on multiple,easy to access, NETV documentareis on youtube. One about Osborne. One about Husker football in general. So quite acting like he was always safe. Like someone had some majical crystal ball that he was going to orchestrate some uniquely insane amounts of success a quarter century down the road. This is the definition of revisionist bullsh#t. He had bought himself some more time. The debate will rage on as to whether Solich did. I thought he did. My opinion. Bo DIDNT. What transpired in November of 2014 was another massive failure. ZERO progress was shown in any aspect from 2011 to 2014. Look up stale in the dictionary. There's a picture of Bo Pelini in a gray husker hoodie. It was time.

Who is acting like TO was always safe?

Well, actually, you know what? As long as Devaney was there, he was safe. But I agree that stupid fans have always wanted changes that would set the program back.

I disagree that Bo showed no progress in from 2011 to 2014. He improved on the sideline dramatically and he and his staff were recruiting as well as they ever did (and as well or better than we are now, by the way).

 

[Count 'Bility]

A frickin 4 star DE from Miami committed yesterday on a whim. When no one expected it. Obviously there is something to sell here. So lets quit making excuses for the program. If Riley cant get it done he'll be gone too. Quit supporting a coach and support Nebraska.

 

[Count 'Bility]

Ppl try to use Osborne as some magical case of patience and such. yet forget-or dont know-about the ultimatum after the '77 reg season. Win the liberty bowl or youre gone. The seat was hot. They won it. Then in 1978, finally beat OU. Was in the NC hunt. And went to the Orange Bowl. Then considered bolting for Colorado. This stuff is all documented on multiple,easy to access, NETV documentareis on youtube. One about Osborne. One about Husker football in general. So quite acting like he was always safe. Like someone had some majical crystal ball that he was going to orchestrate some uniquely insane amounts of success a quarter century down the road. This is the definition of revisionist bullsh#t. He had bought himself some more time. The debate will rage on as to whether Solich did. I thought he did. My opinion. Bo DIDNT. What transpired in November of 2014 was another massive failure. ZERO progress was shown in any aspect from 2011 to 2014. Look up stale in the dictionary. There's a picture of Bo Pelini in a gray husker hoodie. It was time.

Who is acting like TO was always safe?

Well, actually, you know what? As long as Devaney was there, he was safe. But I agree that stupid fans have always wanted changes that would set the program back.

I disagree that Bo showed no progress in from 2011 to 2014. He improved on the sideline dramatically and he and his staff were recruiting as well as they ever did (and as well or better than we are now, by the way).

nitpick all you want. keep hunting for that magical little nugget to prove youre right. I'll look at the results. 2011-2014. Zero progress.

recruiting better? LOL. His best two classes are seniors this year. think about that for a minute.

 

[cm husker]

Fine, if Bo wins 1 more game a season/loses 1 less game a season maybe he is retained.

He is still the same guy that swung hats at refs, cussed out our fanbase, called his boss a c**t, got embarassed by Wisconsin 3 times in 4 tries, and managed to lose 3 CCG's with the final one being one of the biggest sh#t shows in Nebraska history.

But yes, lets gloss over ALL of that and other things and just focus on the fact he was right there on the red line of "proper W/L etiquette".

Smh...

You literally can't stick to facts, huh? Maybe improvement will come with some age.

A. He swung a cap once. not "times"

B. HE didn't cuss out the fanbase. He cussed out some fans who deserved it for the way they behaved at the game. And, in fact, he didn't even cuss them out. He made comments in private.

C. The name calling regarding Eichorst was after he'd already been fired, so it couldn't have been a factor in the decision.

How can you take such a rosey view of Riley and then turn around and frame things as "managed to lose 3 CCGs"? Heck, at least two of Riley's losses in 2016 were worse than the loss to Wisky in the CCG.

By the way, Bo is also the guy who had record academic performance from his team, had great community involvement, resurrected a program left in shambles by Callahan and got NU bowl eligible in 2015 even after he'd been fired, along with his fairly strong (though not spectacular) on field record.

 

[cm husker]

A frickin 4 star DE from Miami committed yesterday on a whim. When no one expected it. Obviously there is something to sell here. So lets quit making excuses for the program. If Riley cant get it done he'll be gone too. Quit supporting a coach and support Nebraska.

I honestly don't understand this mentality at all.

I don't cheer for dirt. I don't cheer for buildings and I don't cheer for jerseys.

But, in any event, changing mentalities of fans is good for the long term health of the program.

 

[desertshox]

A frickin 4 star DE from Miami committed yesterday on a whim. When no one expected it. Obviously there is something to sell here. So lets quit making excuses for the program. If Riley cant get it done he'll be gone too. Quit supporting a coach and support Nebraska.

I honestly don't understand this mentality at all.

I don't cheer for dirt. I don't cheer for buildings and I don't cheer for jerseys.

But, in any event, changing mentalities of fans is good for the long term health of the program.

so we should all go back to cheering bo pelini?

 

[Husker Psycho]

Ppl try to use Osborne as some magical case of patience and such. yet forget-or dont know-about the ultimatum after the '77 reg season. Win the liberty bowl or youre gone. The seat was hot. They won it. Then in 1978, finally beat OU. Was in the NC hunt. And went to the Orange Bowl. Then considered bolting for Colorado. This stuff is all documented on multiple,easy to access, NETV documentareis on youtube. One about Osborne. One about Husker football in general. So quite acting like he was always safe. Like someone had some majical crystal ball that he was going to orchestrate some uniquely insane amounts of success a quarter century down the road. This is the definition of revisionist bullsh#t. He had bought himself some more time. .

That's one of the best comments I've ever read concerning that era. *****

​The only thing I might add... concerning revisionist history... is that Osborne's National championships obviously came AFTER the pressure was put on him to perform at a higher level (ultimatum) and the criticism. No one ever talks about that... all we ever hear is how he threatened to leave for Colorado as if he was some sort of aggrieved soul. The ultimatum was probably the best thing that ever happened to Osborne. Football and sports in general is something where the participants respond in a positive way to pressure and criticism-critique. You have to expect and in fact demand performance at all levels.

Thanks again for your honest recount of that era of Nebraska football.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Ppl try to use Osborne as some magical case of patience and such. yet forget-or dont know-about the ultimatum after the '77 reg season. Win the liberty bowl or youre gone. The seat was hot. They won it. Then in 1978, finally beat OU. Was in the NC hunt. And went to the Orange Bowl. Then considered bolting for Colorado. This stuff is all documented on multiple,easy to access, NETV documentareis on youtube. One about Osborne. One about Husker football in general. So quite acting like he was always safe. Like someone had some majical crystal ball that he was going to orchestrate some uniquely insane amounts of success a quarter century down the road. This is the definition of revisionist bullsh#t. He had bought himself some more time. The debate will rage on as to whether Solich did. I thought he did. My opinion. Bo DIDNT. What transpired in November of 2014 was another massive failure. ZERO progress was shown in any aspect from 2011 to 2014. Look up stale in the dictionary. There's a picture of Bo Pelini in a gray husker hoodie. It was time.

Who is acting like TO was always safe?

Well, actually, you know what? As long as Devaney was there, he was safe. But I agree that stupid fans have always wanted changes that would set the program back.

I disagree that Bo showed no progress in from 2011 to 2014. He improved on the sideline dramatically and he and his staff were recruiting as well as they ever did (and as well or better than we are now, by the way).

And still melted down on the side lines in the middle of his last season during the Wisconsin game instead of actually coaching the team and rallying the troops to win. The team got demolished. His defense didn't even show up for the last three quarters. Meanwhile, he thought it was more important to cry and yell at the refs and everyone else around him. The assistants and players actually were completely ignoring him while they were trying to coach and play a game.

At that point, it was decided for me that I can no longer defend him as coach. In that game, he was totally worthless and in the way on the side lines.

I know you disagree with me on this because you have said so in the past. But, you are in the minority on that. Nothing wrong with being in the minority. But, just understand you aren't seeing what most others are seeing.