B1G and Conference expansion?

[Muck]

Florida State didn't turn down an SEC invite in the 90's...Ron Kramer's closed, emergency meeting of SEC presidents declined to invite them...what does that tell you?[/i]

The SEC vote happened AFTER they discovered that FSU was in negotiations with the ACC. It was a save saving move.

It's like that girl you say you never really wanted to ask out....who decided to start dating someone else before you worked up your nerve.

Again the University of Florida has continuously advocated for FSU membership in the conference. That is not the behavior of a school that is part of a secret pact to keep the 'Noles out.

Essentially you are using the arguing from silence fallacy "Those schools aren't in so it proves the existence of a cabal keeping them out!"

As far as the rest of your argument....do you really believe that picking up the last fraction of SC (assuming it is an even split) is more valuable than gaining a large foothold in a state twice as large (NC), with larger markets, far greater enrollment & a much higher academic profile?

Before entry into the SEC the Gamecocks were second fiddle in South Carolina. Leveraging the SEC brand in the next state north is far more valuable long term than consolidating SC.

 

[Creed]

I just hope the B1G Brass are not sleep at the wheel or too midwest conservative (avoid change). It seems the ACC (adding Pitt & Syr) and especially B12 (adding WVU, TCU and now possibly FSU & Clemson) are being VERY proactive and thinking outside the box. I always thought one "outside the box" expansion plan would be for the B1G to establish a beach head in the south - bring in GT, Clemson, VT/FSU along with ND to get to the inevitable 16.

 

[Muck]

I always thought one "outside the box" expansion plan would be for the B1G to establish a beach head in the south - bring in GT, Clemson, VT/FSU along with ND to get to the inevitable 16.

Jim Delany has long stated that one of the goals was to move into the mid-atlantic/southern region to take advantage of the faster growth.

That being said Clemson would be a really bad fit for the conference. It's a small school with limited research. I don't think there is any way we will see the COP/C accept another school that is bottom of the pack academically.

The only 'smaller' uni I'd like to see invited is Virginia.

My "ain't gonna happen" dream would include Georgia & Florida. They could finally be part of a group of actual peer institutions instead of stuck with the semi-pro mindset that dominates the Dogpatch Community College group they're currently affiliated with.

 

[Notre Dame Joe]

Some guy on a different board said that the Big 12 had the rights to the Big 14 name and was going to add ND, Fla St, Clemson and another team. Talked like it was a done deal. I don't see that happening but there are some out there that think it will.

There are a lot of interesting ideas out there.

Not trying to sound like a d!(k, but Fla. St. and Clemson leaving the ACC for the Big 12 sounds like an absolutely ludicrous idea and I don't think that will ever happen and whoever that source is is most likely full of pooh.

On a side note, ND is sitting pretty with being able to choose what to do. While the B1G makes the most sense, I could see them pulling the trigger on a different conference to keep national exposure (that is not stay in the midwest, not that the B1G doesn't get national exposure).

I was about to post the same thing.

espnu CFB live guy just pointed out that football only travels 6 times per year. That makes some of the geographic absurdity manageable if it is football-only the way the big east does it.

But the Big12 doesn't do that so I have no idea what Clemson and FSU is thinking, if they are.

 

[Muck]

espnu CFB live guy just pointed out that football only travels 6 times per year.

And for most big name schools it's only 4 or 5 times per year.

 

[Jaybird]

Barry Tramell from the Daily Oklahoman was on Unsportsmanlike Conduct this afternoon and he talked like there is a split even between the state of OK as to whether the Big 12 should expand or not. If they did he made it sound like Louisville would be the team they would go after as the 11th team after that he made it sound like there was a big drop off after them in terms of quality of who would be interested. They threw the name Pitt at him and he said the Big 12 got in touch with Pitt before and that ship had sailed. Another name they threw out was UConn. FSU and Clemson were not mentioned at all. He has been following the conference for quite a while so I would assume he is pretty connected.

Another interesting note he talked about is when he talked about the commish. He said the new guy would like to be a leader and visionary like Scott and Delaney but he did not know if the conference would let him as they Big12/8/ as well as the SWC all had administrators as commissioners and they really did not stand up to the Presidents at all. It sure will be interesting to see how it works out.

 

[Muck]

Barry Tramell from the Daily Oklahoman was on Unsportsmanlike Conduct this afternoon and he talked like there is a split even between the state of OK as to whether the Big 12 should expand or not

IIRC Texas & Oklahoma were really the only two schools pushing hard to stay at 10. The rest of the conference was either in favor of expanding or somewhat ambivalent.

 

[huKSer]

Barry Tramell from the Daily Oklahoman was on Unsportsmanlike Conduct this afternoon and he talked like there is a split even between the state of OK as to whether the Big 12 should expand or not

IIRC Texas & Oklahoma were really the only two schools pushing hard to stay at 10. The rest of the conference was either in favor of expanding or somewhat ambivalent.

So you are sayin' that the only two schools that matter in the entire conference wants to stay at 10?

 

[VectorVictor]

Ugh. Not this s**t again...I kid, I kid.

For one, people assume that Clemson and FSU are going to be in a better fiscal position in the BigXII than the ACC--that isn't the case, as the ACC has a handshake agreement without a dollar amount with ESPN currently for all three tiers of the ACC--something ESPN doesn't have with the Big XII and will never want, as the second and third-tier programming is weak (read: Tech, Baylor, KSU, ISU).

ESPN already signed on the dotted line to bump their deal with the Big XII up to $20 million/school total--this total includes second-tier Fox Sports rights (not Fox OTA) and does not include third-tier rights. Other than Oklahoma and TexAss, any of the other schools will be hard-pressed to effectively capitalize on their third tier rights, so we're still looking at a haves vs. have-not scenario in the Big XII--it's just not as drastic as it was before.

The ACC's play in all of this is that now ESPN has signed on the dotted line with the Big XII, they can now ask for just as much, if not more money, from ESPN and likely get it. The likelihood that the ACC gets shafted in all of this is close to nil--the ACC frankly has bigger media markets than the Big XII now (Major markets Houston and St. Louis are gone--all you have is DFW and Kansas City), and a better quality of overall programs.

And if that doesn't work, that's where your "Clemson/FSU to the Big XII" discussion comes into play--it's a move that would ensure that two of the biggest programs gets the same as the Big XII--a nuclear option, if you will, that would render ESPN's agreement to broadcast all three tiers of ACC programming a ball and chain on Bristol.

ESPN doesn't want to be saddled with an ACC minus Clemson/FSU, so they'll acquiesce, and I believe we'll see them pay something like $20-22 million to each school when all is done, and all ACC schools will be happy.

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Two, even though Notre Dame has a seat at the table regarding the discussion of playoffs in College Football, they don't (and likely won't) have their sweetheart deal remain intact. Plus, Delaney's move to require conference champions only in the equation isn't just to preserve integrity in the new process--it's to force Notre Dame's hand in conference realignment.

The thing is, if this comes to pass (no sweetheart deal for ND, conference champs only), I don't know that ND would shack up with the B1G--they may go to the Big East, as their Catholic school colleagues play basketball in that conference already, and there would be a strong push by those Catholic programs to not abandon them.

IF Notre Dame is forced to go conference shopping, and the B1G is looked at, I still think that instead of picking a weaksauce school from the east for media market share, they're going to give Kansas (who as of December still was communicating with the Big East) a call to gauge interest. Delaney is a former basketball man, and he's helped shape the B1G into one of the top basketball conferences in the nation--who better than the addition of Kansas to not only solidify that place, but to give that much more national presence to the B1G?

What is likely, though, is if ND is forced to look for a home, that they saddle up with the Big East (call it Catholic guilt? ) or the Big XII, who could then take Louisville and go back up to 12 schools and get a conference title game again (read: an extra $2 million/school/year they're currently missing out on).

All in all, I don't think we'll really see much going on in terms of realignment until the playoff discussions and the BCS mess is decided.

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Also, if you're wanting quality views/news on conference realignment, then you should be reading the Frank the Tank blog. If anything, Frank was the first journalist/blogger/public persona who publicly called Nebraska going to the Big 10 before we were ever in public consideration (and months before SI, CBS, or ESPN ever picked up on the mere possibility).

 

[VA Husker Fan]

espnu CFB live guy just pointed out that football only travels 6 times per year.

And for most big name schools it's only 4 or 5 times per year.

And the issue is only for conference games, so it'd probably only be 4 games affected by which conference you're in. For non-conf, you have the freedom to schedule whoever. If travel budget is an issue, find a close road game.

 

[SandhillshuskerW]

I know that all of this realignment is happening whether we like it or not. I'm a little old fashioned when it comes to where teams play so I am really not a big fan of it, but I might as well get used to it because it is happening. I do feel that Notre Dame needs to just realize that they need to join a conference already. Change is here and if Notre Dame wants to be a part of the National Championship talk, they need to suck it up and join a conference. I didn't like the fact that we wouldn't play Oklahoma every year. The series was very one-sided at times for both sides, but it was still nice to know that we were going to play the Sooners. I think that the reason the B1G is one of the logical choices for Notre Dame is that they usually play quite a few B1G teams.

 

[Muck]

So you are sayin' that the only two schools that matter in the entire conference wants to stay at 10?

lol Yeah pretty much.

Eventually the rest of the conference is going to realize they have more leverage than they get credit for. Texas has burned just about every bridge imaginable over the past couple of years in regards to other conferences and nobody wants Oklahoma.

 

[Notre Dame Joe]

To paraphrase a former President, Conferences are not the answer to our problems, Conferences are the problem.

All of the stupidity in bowl games can be traced to conference self-interest.

Two, even though Notre Dame has a seat at the table regarding the discussion of playoffs in College Football, they don't (and likely won't) have their sweetheart deal remain intact. Plus, Delaney's move to require conference champions only in the equation isn't just to preserve integrity in the new process--it's to force Notre Dame's hand in conference realignment.
The thing is, if this comes to pass (no sweetheart deal for ND, conference champs only), I don't know that ND would shack up with the B1G--they may go to the Big East, as their Catholic school colleagues play basketball in that conference already, and there would be a strong push by those Catholic programs to not abandon them.

That's why we have 'Savvy Jack' striking deals all over to keep Delaney out. The tv networks won't strike a deal that isn't clear about what happens to Notre Dame, it would just be leaving money on the table.

But in the nightmare scenario, BigEast dissolves, conference membership mandatory, antitrust suit tied up in courts, the fanbase currently favors the ACC or the Big12 over the big10. The ACC is actually a pretty good football fit because we have more developed rivalries [Miami, FSU, BC and Pitt] than the Purdue, UM, Sparty.

 

[Excel]

Joe, since you seem to be the only ND poster on here I'll direct this crazy question at you, and please forgive me but...if Notre Dame had to join a conference, which conference would you like to see them join?

 

[WoodyHayes1951]

The Big Ten should go after semi-southern teams.

If Clemson and FSU leave the ACC that leaves the Techs there for the taking. GIT wants into the SEC but the feelings aren't mutual.

Big Ten should take GIT and VaTech and if at all possible UVA(though they will probably stick with their long time ACC friends Duke and Carolina).

2 schools in top 8 football states. Only thing that would be better is Texas. Virginia is southern but it's not really deep south anymore. Atlanta is about as "northern" as it gets in the deep south.