B1G vs. SEC

tschu said:
IDK, you could start here. It's pretty conclusive at this point

http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm
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No, that is a guess as to who is better.

You don't know until they meet on the field. MSUs only loss is to the # 5 team in the country and they were beating the for 3 quarters of that game. If they play one more quarter, they are undefeated and would be sitting at the top of the rankings. That's one quarter of play against the 5th ranked team in the country.

Now, anyone can try to guess who is better. But, that doesn't mean squat until they play a game.

 
You don't even know after they play a game. A game is just one game. The only way to know is for the teams to play an infinite number of games against each other and see who wins more. So that's a moot point. For example, I don't think that Ole Miss is better than Alabama. I don't think that Florida is better than Georgia. I don't think that Virginia Tech is better than Ohio State. You're looking at it wrong.

That is literally all the data for all computer/efficiency/otherwise rankings that are widely available, taking into account basically all statistical measures of every single game played, wins, losses, margins of victory, all compiled together, and I'm supposed to take conjecture and an eye test over 3 quarters of one game over that?

I'm always going to use the best and most data available, and right now none of that suggests that Michigan State is better than either of those two teams.

 
tschu said:
You don't even know after they play a game. A game is just one game. The only way to know is for the teams to play an infinite number of games against each other and see who wins more. So that's a moot point. For example, I don't think that Ole Miss is better than Alabama. I don't think that Florida is better than Georgia. I don't think that Virginia Tech is better than Ohio State. You're looking at it wrong.

That is literally all the data for all computer/efficiency/otherwise rankings that are widely available, taking into account basically all statistical measures of every single game played, wins, losses, margins of victory, all compiled together, and I'm supposed to take conjecture and an eye test over 3 quarters of one game over that?

I'm always going to use the best and most data available, and right now none of that suggests that Michigan State is better than either of those two teams.
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True.

But, that's how the game of football is done. It's played on the field for one game. You are demonstrating why "opinions" are total BS when it comes to all of this. Sports are meant to be decided on the field of play. Win or lose. Not, in some media or coaches office picking their nose and deciding who is "best".

And, let's just say we use your data. If you are comparing teams in this ranking that are, lets say, ranked 5th and 30th, the likelihood of it being correct is much greater than if you are comparing teams ranked in the top 15.

 
It highly depends on what/why/how your ranking is done, and for what purpose.

Is it an accomplishment ranking? A resume ranking? A pure power ranking?

If I assert that a team is better than another team, I'm going off the pure power ranking. If I'm arguing that one team should be in the playoff over another team, I'm probably making an accomplishment ranking. Remember, 2007 Patriots were undoubtedly the best team in the league, but they were not deserving of being Super Bowl champions - the Giants accomplished this.

 
tschu, what is your basis for the belief the SEC is so strong this year? Too much ESecPN? I just don't see it. They haven't proved it against anyone. They only play each other. How can you really tell who is better when they don't play teams from other conferences that are remotely close to their level. The only instances you have are Wisconsin/LSU and that game was extremely close and lost by Wisconsin not won by LSU. Auburn/Kansas State was a game lost by KSU, not won by Auburn. Alabama/West Virginia was only 10 points and those two aren't remotely close in stature right now.

I guess I don't see how anybody at this point can claim the SEC is so much better than anybody else when they haven't beaten anybody of substance soundly all season.

 
All of the metrics and computer polls that literally see no conference affiliation say that the SEC is the best conference. Most have 5 SEC West teams in the top 6 teams in the nation. But yeah I'm sure all that unbiased pure data is just flat-out wrong. I'm sure all those computer polls have been watching too much of the ESPN.

Your post is hilarious in that you just downplay SEC wins. Auburn beating KSU at KSU is perhaps the best win by resume ranking in the nation this season. West Virginia is absolutely a top 20 team in the nation by power ranking. You claim bias, but then immediately start in with your very own set of hilarious biases.

When you look at what teams have accomplished, there are no excuses. There are only wins and losses. If your gripe is that the SEC has gotten lucky, then I'm sorry. Deal with it.

 
"They haven't proved it against anyone. They only play each other"

*immediately lists 3 wins by SEC teams over very good power-5 conference teams*

lol

 
tschu said:
"They haven't proved it against anyone. They only play each other"

*immediately lists 3 wins by SEC teams over very good power-5 conference teams*

lol
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there is a bias. and it is that the SEC is held to a much higher standard. who has proven anything then? certainly not the big 10. not the pac 12. not the big 12.

if the argument is that the SEC is not that good, i want to know, compared to what?

 
Guys, it's not like I sit here and use my own eyes to judge how good teams are. It's not like I listen to any analysts or talking heads or watch any ESPN or Fox Sports 1 or any of that. I watch the games, I read blogs, I follow the metrics, I learn what goes in to the computer rankings. I'm working on making a model myself, but it's a long ways from complete. I do not use anything subjective. Numbers are numbers. Wins are wins and losses are losses. That's it.

I know you don't like it, but it's not like some magic voodoo has possessed tschu. I know you dislike the SEC, and I don't really care. I'm more interested in dissecting the data, analyzing the power rankings to determine how good a resume is, and figuring out A) how teams rank in flat-out power and B) how teams rank in accomplishment. I don't care what conference they're in, that's meaningless. But if we have to group teams in conferences, the conference at the top is the SEC. The Big 12 is second, Pac-12 is third (these two are close). The Big Ten is basically tied with the ACC at the bottom of the P5.

 
sd'sker said:
tschu said:
"They haven't proved it against anyone. They only play each other"

*immediately lists 3 wins by SEC teams over very good power-5 conference teams*

lol
Click to expand...
there is a bias. and it is that the SEC is held to a much higher standard. who has proven anything then? certainly not the big 10. not the pac 12. not the big 12.

if the argument is that the SEC is not that good, i want to know, compared to what?
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Exactly. Take a look at what any conference has accomplished. It will pale in comparison.

 
If you are truly frothing at the mouth about the SEC and need to fantasize about some doomsday scenario for that conference, here's about as bad as it can get:

Georgia beats Auburn
Auburn beats Alabama
Alabaama beats LSU
Alabama beats Miss St
Miss St beats Ole Miss
SECCG: Missouri beats Miss St

Alabama 10-2
Auburn 10-2
Ole Miss 9-3
Missouri 10-3? Conference champs, though with a loss to f'ing Indiana
MSU 11-2. Now here's a team that truly did play nobody in the nonconference.
LSU 9-3

Alabama or Auburn would still have a shot to get in probably but not a great shot.

 
I don't pay attention to polls, dude

None of that applies to any computer rankings because computers don't have any idea how good a team is "supposed" to be...they only know the team name and the scores of their games (or ypp data or whatever). Preseason biases and crap like that might apply to the AP Poll and such, but not the crap I pay attention to.

 
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