Battle of the Hall-of-Famers: Mike Rozier vs. Ron Dayne

[HUSKER 37]

I was going to UNL around the same time as Rozier and Craig (so long ago I vaguely remember it)..I was a little upset when Rozier eventually started over Roger until I saw that play where he reversed field against UCLA..Before that, there was even talk of changing the formation to include two HBs..Sort of a half bone if I remember right..But back then, the Wishbone was thought of in the same circles as Communism, and Craig volunteered to switch to Full Back.. I'd also probably say Craig had a little better pro career than either Mike or Ron partly because of his demonstrated versatility. Maybe the high stepping style helped a little, too.

I just wish we could have spaced them out a little further eligibility wise to get them each more carries.

But imagine if we had all three...at the same time..

Dayne would probably be the 3rd down/red zone back and barely get any carries.

 

[beanman]

So let me get this straight........Mike Rozier's career production was limited because Osborne happen to put other weapons around him but I should still consider it better than Ron Dayne's because Alvarez didn't do the same. Forget the fact that Dayne ran for more yards and TDs because Rozier would have done the same IF he had an extra year and less talent around him............thanks guys. I'd of never been able to see the light without you......

Barry Sanders only had 3,797 yards rushing in college. Therefore, Ron Dayne is better. See how stupid this sounds?

 

[HuskyBadger]

I'm a Badger fan, but my stepfather is a Nebraska guy so I grew up watching both teams. Fans always have so much trouble looking at topics objectively when their favorite teams/players are involved -- I'm no different. I won't get into Rozier vs Dayne too much; but some of the comments are just laughable. The idea that he would have only been a 'third-down' back or that he 'didn't break off long runs' or that there is a huge chasm between Rozier and Dayne is just silly.

Rozier was an all-time great, as was Dayne -- both were unique talents and played with different teams and schemes which makes it awfully tough to compare. They were certainly closer in talent than some on this board seem to think. The unique thing with Dayne was how quick his feet were for a 260 pound guy, did a great job of waiting for a hole and getting upfield.

I would also like to comment on the idea that being the focal point of the UW offense helped Dayne, while sharing carries hurt Rozier. Certainly getting more carries allowed Dayne to get more yards; nobody would argue that. But, the fact that UW didn't have many other options also allowed defenses to absolutely load up to stop Dayne, he routinely ran against 9 man fronts all game long and was still able to be very successful doing it. There are also a lot of running backs that wouldn't be able to tote the rock that often, he was the ultimate bell-cow, incredibly durable, didn't wear down, just kept pounding. I'm certainly not saying Rozier couldn't have done the same; but there aren't a lot of college backs that have the ability to take 30 carries every game if needed. Ron Dayne shouldn't get knocked because he played four years and had a lot of carries; he should get credit for handling that workload and remainaing incredibly productive. I have a feeling a big power back that ran downhill, never got hurt and holds the NCAA rushing record would have been beloved as a Husker, but because he's a Badger its suddenly insulting to have him headline a HOF class.

Just for fun; to break Dayne's rushing record, a RB playing 13 games a season for four years would need to average 137 rushing yards per game. Thats damn impressive.

And none of what I've said is meant to discredit Mike Rozier who I was sadly too young to watch and fully appreciate -- my step-father holds him in extremely high regard.

 

[knapplc]

Dayne was great, without question. If you take away everything else he accomplished, all the awards and honors, the sheer durability he exhibited while being that focal point of the offense for four years is incredible. Running back is a terribly difficult position to stay healthy at, as Husker fan favorite Rex Burkhead showed throughout his career. Heck, Rozier even had to sit most of the second half in the biggest game of his college career due to injury. Dayne's toughness is a thing of legend.

 

[VA Husker Fan]

I was going to UNL around the same time as Rozier and Craig (so long ago I vaguely remember it)..I was a little upset when Rozier eventually started over Roger until I saw that play where he reversed field against UCLA..Before that, there was even talk of changing the formation to include two HBs..Sort of a half bone if I remember right..But back then, the Wishbone was thought of in the same circles as Communism, and Craig volunteered to switch to Full Back.. I'd also probably say Craig had a little better pro career than either Mike or Ron partly because of his demonstrated versatility. Maybe the high stepping style helped a little, too.

IIRC part of the reason Rozier overtook Craig is that Craig had a bit of fumble-itis. I really respect the way he accepted the move to FB and was really happy to see him excel in the pros. He doesn't belong up there with Rozier, Phillips and Green as a college back. Or Dayne.

 

[Paul in WI]

Saying Dayne is better than Rozier because he had more yards is like saying Brett Favre is better than Joe Montana, because he threw for more yards than Montana in his career. Which QB would you rather have leading your team in the Super Bowl? Enough said.

I've seen both of these running backs play, and Ron Dayne is no Mike Rozier. That guy wasn't even in the same class as Rozier. People were more enamored with Dayne as a consequence of him being a toad that still had some speed rather than anything else.

 

[Bigdsrip]

Its obviously impossible to convince Husker fans on the Huskerboard that anyone is better than Rozier so I'm not even going to try. That being said those who are saying Dayne was nothing special must not have been paying attention. That or your Husker glasses are 20 inches thick. There has NEVER been a RB like Dayne and given the state of football (spread Os/increasing passing attacks/RB committees/etc.) it is very doubtful that we will ever see one like him again.

I get that people who didn't watch him on a regular basis think he's just a stat guy. That argument holds some weight until you realize just how ridiculous those stats were. Dayne missed several games his Soph year and sat out at least 10 4th quarters, probably closer to 15 but those box scores are hard to find. He would have had another 1,000 yards EASILY if he had played every game and closed out all the blowouts along the way. Remember the thing that made Dayne a Hall-of-Famer was that he was a 260 pound back who could take 30+ carries a game like it was nothing. He took games over in the 4th quarter when the opposing D was sick of facing him. Alvarez sat him for the 4th in almost every non-conference game he played as he would routinely have 200 yards at halftime. If he would have stayed in for those 4th quarters against teams that he had forced to quit (not just non-conference games either, many B1G teams were spared Dayne in the 4th as well) his numbers would have been even more staggering than they were.

He didn't start for the first four games of his Frosh year, sat out the majority of several 4th qtrs (for example vs hawaii when he had 0 carries after the 3rd quarter and still finished with 336 yards) and still finished with 2,100+ yards. AT WISCONSIN!!!!

The UW of Dayne's era is not even close to the UW of today. That was a program attempting to find itself still. we had won two Bowl games in the last 50 years before Dayne got there. This was not Nebraska with multiple CFB Hall-of-Famers. To those who point out that Rozier wasn't the only option, or even the only Hall-of-Fame option, on those teams while also pointing to his YPC as why he is better might want to double check their logic. Is it easier to gain big chunks of yards when the D has multiple threats to deal with or when you are the only threat facing 9 and 10 man fronts most of the time? Obviously the guy with an all time great at QB AND WR would have the better YPC numbers. Not to mention if you double a guys carries there is no guarantee that they will maintain that pace. Part of what made Dayne such a great player was his durability.

 

[HuskyBadger]

I've seen both of these running backs play, and Ron Dayne is no Mike Rozier.

Equally, Mike Rozier was no Ron Dayne.

That guy wasn't even in the same class as Rozier.

Certainly your opinion, but the guy is entering the College Hall of Fame, won the Heisman and had 7000+ career yds. I imagine I could make room for both Rozier and Dayne in the same class.

People were more enamored with Dayne as a consequence of him being a toad that still had some speed rather than anything else.

Now thats just silly. Nobody would care about Dayne being a bigger running back if he were medicore. Do we here echoes of greatness from fans recanting the glory days of Jovorskie Lane? Who cares about that guy anymore? People are/were enamored with Dayne because he was a great running back, not because he was a 'toad' as you put it.

 

[ADS]

Its obviously impossible to convince Husker fans on the Huskerboard that anyone is better than Rozier so I'm not even going to try. That being said those who are saying Dayne was nothing special must not have been paying attention. That or your Husker glasses are 20 inches thick. There has NEVER been a RB like Dayne and given the state of football (spread Os/increasing passing attacks/RB committees/etc.) it is very doubtful that we will ever see one like him again.

I get that people who didn't watch him on a regular basis think he's just a stat guy. That argument holds some weight until you realize just how ridiculous those stats were. Dayne missed several games his Soph year and sat out at least 10 4th quarters, probably closer to 15 but those box scores are hard to find. He would have had another 1,000 yards EASILY if he had played every game and closed out all the blowouts along the way. Remember the thing that made Dayne a Hall-of-Famer was that he was a 260 pound back who could take 30+ carries a game like it was nothing. He took games over in the 4th quarter when the opposing D was sick of facing him. Alvarez sat him for the 4th in almost every non-conference game he played as he would routinely have 200 yards at halftime. If he would have stayed in for those 4th quarters against teams that he had forced to quit (not just non-conference games either, many B1G teams were spared Dayne in the 4th as well) his numbers would have been even more staggering than they were.

He didn't start for the first four games of his Frosh year, sat out the majority of several 4th qtrs (for example vs hawaii when he had 0 carries after the 3rd quarter and still finished with 336 yards) and still finished with 2,100+ yards. AT WISCONSIN!!!!

The UW of Dayne's era is not even close to the UW of today. That was a program attempting to find itself still. we had won two Bowl games in the last 50 years before Dayne got there. This was not Nebraska with multiple CFB Hall-of-Famers. To those who point out that Rozier wasn't the only option, or even the only Hall-of-Fame option, on those teams while also pointing to his YPC as why he is better might want to double check their logic. Is it easier to gain big chunks of yards when the D has multiple threats to deal with or when you are the only threat facing 9 and 10 man fronts most of the time? Obviously the guy with an all time great at QB AND WR would have the better YPC numbers. Not to mention if you double a guys carries there is no guarantee that they will maintain that pace. Part of what made Dayne such a great player was his durability.

It's safe to say that both were great backs, and both of our teams were privileged to have such great players. But to think the last two years of playing Wisconsin, and getting thumped two out of the 3 times, has anything to do with us thinking Rozier is better than Dayne is wrong. Alot of members on this board got the chance to watch both play, and they will make their own assumption.

 

[Paul in WI]

I've seen both of these running backs play, and Ron Dayne is no Mike Rozier.

Equally, Mike Rozier was no Ron Dayne.

That guy wasn't even in the same class as Rozier.

Certainly your opinion, but the guy is entering the College Hall of Fame, won the Heisman and had 7000+ career yds. I imagine I could make room for both Rozier and Dayne in the same class.

People were more enamored with Dayne as a consequence of him being a toad that still had some speed rather than anything else.

Now thats just silly. Nobody would care about Dayne being a bigger running back if he were medicore. Do we here echoes of greatness from fans recanting the glory days of Jovorskie Lane? Who cares about that guy anymore? People are/were enamored with Dayne because he was a great running back, not because he was a 'toad' as you put it.

Actually, Dayne usually ranks as one of the Top 10 draft busts when those "awards" are being handed out for draft busts. Opposing NFL defenses even referred to him as "The Danish", so I'll stand by my toad comment.

 

[The Dude]

Rozier is a snazzier dresser.

 

[NUance]

Rozier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ron Dayne

MIKE_>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>__ron

except, Ron >> Mike (at teeter-tottering)

 

[GSG]

Rozier is a snazzier dresser.

Hells yeah!

 

[HuskyBadger]

I've seen both of these running backs play, and Ron Dayne is no Mike Rozier. Equally, Mike Rozier was no Ron Dayne. That guy wasn't even in the same class as Rozier. Certainly your opinion, but the guy is entering the College Hall of Fame, won the Heisman and had 7000+ career yds. I imagine I could make room for both Rozier and Dayne in the same class. People were more enamored with Dayne as a consequence of him being a toad that still had some speed rather than anything else. Now thats just silly. Nobody would care about Dayne being a bigger running back if he were medicore. Do we here echoes of greatness from fans recanting the glory days of Jovorskie Lane? Who cares about that guy anymore? People are/were enamored with Dayne because he was a great running back, not because he was a 'toad' as you put it.

Actually, Dayne usually ranks as one of the Top 10 draft busts when those "awards" are being handed out for draft busts. Opposing NFL defenses even referred to him as "The Danish", so I'll stand by my toad comment.

A. Where to start? How about we are talking about their college football careers? Who cares what they did in the NFL? Additionally those 'draft bust lists' are a joke; so you can reference them if you want but they hardly help your argument; and frankly make you look worse. The idea that the 11th pick in a draft that would end up with 3700 yards and 28 touchdowns is any sort of "Top Ten Draft Bust" is just laughable. I mean, take 30 seconds and think of 10 draft busts who were worse than Dayne -- it isn't hard.

Just for kicks; lets look at players selected higher than Ron Dayne since 2000 (the year he was drafted).

2000 draft

#1 Selection - Courtney Brown -- finished with 19.5 sacks in his career.

#2 Selection - LaVar Arrington -- incredibly athletic LB, barely started after his first four seasons in the league. Finished with 23.5 sacks.

#4 Selection - Peter Warrick -- Shifty explosive player at FSU, struggled in the NFL and finished with only 2990 rec. yards.

2001 draft

#3 Selection - Gerard Warren -- Big bust in Cleveland and another example of the terrible Butch Davis drafts.

#8 Selection - David Terrell -- Big time WR out of Michigan, finished with 1602 rec. yds over the course of five seasons.

#10 Selection - Jamal Reynolds -- Was supposed to be an uber-talented pass rusher out of FSU, but was a massive bust at the NFL level. Finished his career in two seasons with 3 total sacks.

2002 draft

#1 Selection - David Carr -- Currently with 65 TDs and 71 INTs

#3 Selection - Joey Harrington -- Retired with 79TDs and 85 INTs

#4 Selection - Mike Williams (OT Bills) -- Never made an impact in Buffalo; was so bad they even tried to convert him to Guard and some DT. Massive bust.

#6 Selection - Ryan Sims (DT KC) -- Arrowheadpride.com considers Sims the #3 biggest draft bust in KC history. http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2011/4/28/2138741/chiefs-draft-picks-nfl-draft-busts-medlock-simshttp://www.arrowheadpride.com/2011/4/28/2138741/chiefs-draft-picks-nfl-draft-busts-medlock-sims

2003 Draft

#2 Selection - Charles Rogers -- Rogers was a fantastic talent at MSU, long and spindly just dynamic in the red-zone, but his injury and drug problems killed his NFL career. Finished with 36 receptions.

#4 Selection - Dewayne Robertson -- Had some moments, but is considered a bust for a player picked so high. Was out of the league by 2008.

2004 Draft

#2 Selection - Robert Gallery -- Was considered a can't miss LT coming out of Iowa. Struggled badly and would have to eventually move to guard. Had more success at guard; so maybe he isn't a bust; except that nobody drafts a guard at #2.

#9 Selection - Reggie Williams -- Played 5 years and finished with 2322 rec. yards. Fell far short of expectations.

2005 Draft

#6 Selection - PacMan Jones -- Call him a bust or not, but not worth the #6 pick in any realm.

#7 Selection - Troy Williamson -- Drafted to help fill the Randy Moss void; he was a complete bust. Finishing with just 87 receptions.

#10 Selection - Mike Williams -- Oh look another Det. WR makes the list.

2006 Draft

#3 Selection - Vince Young -- Young is now broke and looking desperately for another team to give him a chance.

#7 Selection - Mike Huff -- Has already been released by Oak.

#10 Selection - Matt Leinart -- For obvious reasons.

2007 Draft

#1 Selection - JaMarcus Russell -- For obvious reasons

#9 Selection - Ted Ginn JR. -- Has been a good return man, but a terrible WR

2008 Draft

#5 Selection - Glenn Dorsey -- Never did live up to the hype during his time at KC.

#6 Seleciton - Vernon Ghoulston -- Workout warrior that busted for NYJ.

#8 Selection - Derrick Harvey -- Was out of the league by 2011.

#9 Selection - Keith Rivers -- Cincy would trade him the NYG for a 5th round pick in 2011. Had injury problems after a vicious Hines Ward hit.

2009 Draft

#2 Selection - Jason Smith -- Massive bust the Rams couldn't wait to get out from underneath his contract.

#4 Selection - Aaron Curry -- Was considered a top-flight LB that year, Seattle traded him to Oakland two years later for a 7th round pick.

#5 Selection - Mark Sanchez -- He of the butt-fumble.

#7 Selection - Darius Heyward-Bay -- Al Davis type pick, very fast but can't catch -- has already moved on from Oakland.

Thats just a grouping of players since 2000; all of whom were selected higher in their respective drafts than Ron Dayne was in his -- and we didn't even go dredging up historical guys like Mandrich, Albert, Bruce, Shuler, Leaf, Buckley, Stokes ...ect....ect....

This isn't to say Dayne had a great career, he most certainly didn't, but I keep hearing these uneducated arguments that he was somehow a 'top-ten' bust all-time. Its just ignorant.

 

[WhatDoIKnow]

I am not getting why it is so hard to understand what AllNRed is saying.

Dayne had a better college career than Rozier.

Even in this thread someone said Phillips was Nebraska's best back, but did he have a better college career than Rozier? Of course not.