Beck's playcalling/use of Martinez

JTrain

JTrain

All-Conference
In the last 40-50 years of modern college football, there have been hundreds of starting QBs very similar to Martinez--athletes who can make plays and have great overall success, but who are mediocre drop-back passers with mostly poor mechanics and an inability to consistently make good reads and good throws against decent defenses.

Aside from the obvious (surrounding talent), the primary deciding factor in whether these types have success or not is their offensive coordinators. The best coordinators are masters at putting their QB in a position to use his strengths and avoid his weaknesses.

When Taylor is given a play with routes to the sideline or downfield on a straight drop-back pass, especially when the defense is expecting a pass, he makes bad reads, bad throws, telegraphs passes and throws pick sixes. Yet Beck does just this in big games and apparently expects a different result.

In a sense I blame Bo (or whoever made the decision to give Beck the OC job). Beck's OC experience includes one season at Missouri State, and one season as "passing game coordinator" at Kansas. I know this point has been discussed a lot already, but I see no reason to believe he was prepared to step into a full OC job at a major FBS program. Maybe he will improve and be one of the best 4-5 years down the road. But it sure sucks that we have to be his learning experience, including performances like tonight.

But the less optimistic side of me wonders if he's even cut out for the job in the long-term. With 3rd and 9 and a QB like Taylor, in a close game, is it not OC 101 to call a screen or draw? Seems pretty straightforward to me. Call a low risk play that may have a 30% chance of breaking for a first down, then punt and play defense if it doesn't. Pick sixes are game-killers.

 
Taylor over the course of the past few seasons has made most of his money on long, downfield passes. We'll run a lot, get mismatches downfield, and have Taylor put it up there. So I disagree with you there.

I also think Taylor is not your typical mobile QB with issues throwing. His combination of skills & limitations is unique. Look at Braxton or Klein, for example - not the greatest throwers, but the kind of guys who will carry a running game all on their own. Taylor is the QB who will break a 70-yarder, but doesn't have the same down-to-down ability to key a running game, IMO.

 
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Klein and Braxton are better throwers than Taylor IMO. Maybe not great throwers, but are a far cry better than Taylor (and no I'm not bagging on Taylor). I agree with JTrain though. Beck has got to figure out how to play to Taylors strengths. Paps needs some of the blame as well. Whatever we were doing in the 1st quarter on defense had Braxton confused. Why did he change it? I'm trying hard not to blame Bo but eventually he needs to tell his coordinators to pull their heads out of their butts and start doing things right.

 
JTrain said:
In the last 40-50 years of modern college football, there have been hundreds of starting QBs very similar to Martinez--athletes who can make plays and have great overall success, but who are mediocre drop-back passers with mostly poor mechanics and an inability to consistently make good reads and good throws against decent defenses.

Aside from the obvious (surrounding talent), the primary deciding factor in whether these types have success or not is their offensive coordinators. The best coordinators are masters at putting their QB in a position to use his strengths and avoid his weaknesses.

When Taylor is given a play with routes to the sideline or downfield on a straight drop-back pass, especially when the defense is expecting a pass, he makes bad reads, bad throws, telegraphs passes and throws pick sixes. Yet Beck does just this in big games and apparently expects a different result.

In a sense I blame Bo (or whoever made the decision to give Beck the OC job). Beck's OC experience includes one season at Missouri State, and one season as "passing game coordinator" at Kansas. I know this point has been discussed a lot already, but I see no reason to believe he was prepared to step into a full OC job at a major FBS program. Maybe he will improve and be one of the best 4-5 years down the road. But it sure sucks that we have to be his learning experience, including performances like tonight.

But the less optimistic side of me wonders if he's even cut out for the job in the long-term. With 3rd and 9 and a QB like Taylor, in a close game, is it not OC 101 to call a screen or draw? Seems pretty straightforward to me. Call a low risk play that may have a 30% chance of breaking for a first down, then punt and play defense if it doesn't. Pick sixes are game-killers.
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What, you mean like Braxton Miller? Using a player's strengths and putting them in favorable positions to make plays? That's crazy talk! I don't see that ever working.

 
zoogies said:
Taylor over the course of the past few seasons has made most of his money on long, downfield passes. We'll run a lot, get mismatches downfield, and have Taylor put it up there. So I disagree with you there.

I also think Taylor is not your typical mobile QB with issues throwing. His combination of skills & limitations is unique. Look at Braxton or Klein, for example - not the greatest throwers, but the kind of guys who will carry a running game all on their own. Taylor is the QB who will break a 70-yarder, but doesn't have the same down-to-down ability to key a running game, IMO.
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Yes, downfield passes mostly off play-action. I'm talking about regular drop-back pass plays, particularly on obvious passing downs. He's had very little success with these.

I'm not saying Taylor is like Braxton or Klein, or that all mobile-type QBs are the same. I'm saying that, at the college level, any QBs that are not great drop-back passers can still have crazy success if they have a talented coordinator putting them in position to use their strengths.

 
I like Beck. I like his offensive mind. Not being sarcastic. I like when he attacks and I like that he showed faith in Taylor tonight. Taylor made a few bad throws but I don't have a problem with the plan. Guess I have my head in the sand, but I think OSU had almost as much trouble trying to slow us down as we did trying to slow them down. Take away two bad throws and a special teams touchdown and we are right in this game.

 
JTrain said:
In the last 40-50 years of modern college football, there have been hundreds of starting QBs very similar to Martinez--athletes who can make plays and have great overall success, but who are mediocre drop-back passers with mostly poor mechanics and an inability to consistently make good reads and good throws against decent defenses.

Aside from the obvious (surrounding talent), the primary deciding factor in whether these types have success or not is their offensive coordinators. The best coordinators are masters at putting their QB in a position to use his strengths and avoid his weaknesses.

When Taylor is given a play with routes to the sideline or downfield on a straight drop-back pass, especially when the defense is expecting a pass, he makes bad reads, bad throws, telegraphs passes and throws pick sixes. Yet Beck does just this in big games and apparently expects a different result.

In a sense I blame Bo (or whoever made the decision to give Beck the OC job). Beck's OC experience includes one season at Missouri State, and one season as "passing game coordinator" at Kansas. I know this point has been discussed a lot already, but I see no reason to believe he was prepared to step into a full OC job at a major FBS program. Maybe he will improve and be one of the best 4-5 years down the road. But it sure sucks that we have to be his learning experience, including performances like tonight.

But the less optimistic side of me wonders if he's even cut out for the job in the long-term. With 3rd and 9 and a QB like Taylor, in a close game, is it not OC 101 to call a screen or draw? Seems pretty straightforward to me. Call a low risk play that may have a 30% chance of breaking for a first down, then punt and play defense if it doesn't. Pick sixes are game-killers.
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Same story different game

 
Not saying there aren't some valid points here, but all things considered, 38 points should be enough to win every game. This side of the ball is really not the source of this team's problems.

 
Peoriahusker said:
hskrpwr13 said:
Not saying there aren't some valid points here, but all things considered, 38 points should be enough to win every game. This side of the ball is really not the source of this team's problems.
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4 turnovers, countless penalties, really?
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Not saying there aren't limitations with Taylor at the helm. Its basically a two steps forward, one step back situation with him.

I'll repeat: 38 points should be enough to win every game.

 
tmfr15 said:
I like Beck. I like his offensive mind. Not being sarcastic. I like when he attacks and I like that he showed faith in Taylor tonight. Taylor made a few bad throws but I don't have a problem with the plan. Guess I have my head in the sand, but I think OSU had almost as much trouble trying to slow us down as we did trying to slow them down. Take away two bad throws and a special teams touchdown and we are right in this game.
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I agree with you here, I like Beck's playcaling. Obviously there are times you will disagree with what he calls, but for the most part I like how he manages the game. People are complaining about the striaght drop back passe in obvious passing situations, but many of those situations are the result of 1st and 2nd down runs that have netted next to nothing. But they are runs on 1st and 2nd down which is what so many people here have been calling for (we are a running team, quit the passing and just pound it, how many times have you read that this year).

I think he he shown a lot of different looks this year and is mixing it up pretty well. But the bottom line is, if the play succeds, we all think it was a great call, and if it goes nowhere, it was a terrible call. Much like the fake punt by OSU tonight, he was probably getting lamblasted over that one, but if he had made the first down, it would have been a great call.

 
We have better backs and receivers than Ohio State by a long shot. Braxton is better than Taylor but not by that much. Overall, we have the advantage in playmakers. But OSU has the better playcaller that knows how to utilize what they have and hide their weakness. Despite having more playmakers, we got out-yarded and threw three picks (two extremely costly ones that basically handed them 14 points.) They threw zero and won the game easily.

For the record, I'm not trying to throw Beck under the bus and pin the loss on him. Our defense has major issues and we gave up a special teams TD too. I'm just trying to articulate what I feel is a significant issue with Beck. He has his moments but overall he's too predictable and puts Taylor in very bad spots at crucial times in big games.

 
We ran early and got behind the sticks. I didn't disagree with running it and trying to get that aspect of the game going. We were on the road and I am sure we were just trying to get settled in and what not. The bad throws were unfortunate and you could blame Taylor for making bad reads. I don't know that it is productive to do that. I think that the realization of down and distance are great mitigating factors for T-Mart. Face it, most QBs throw picks. Even great ones throw picks. Again, unfortunate, but I think Taylor played well tonight and Beck called a decent game. It just wasn't to be, and, for all of us Big Red backers, that is ultimately frustrating. Let's get past this bye week quick and go get those Wildcats.

 
tmfr15 said:
The bad throws were unfortunate and you could blame Taylor for making bad reads.
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In order to make a bad read, you would first have to make a read. On most of these drop-back pass plays (especially on obvious passing downs when the defensive line is coming fast), Taylor isn't making reads. He's throwing it to the first receiver and by all appearances he's made that choice before he even snaps the ball. To make it worse, he doesn't try any head fakes, just telegraphs where he's going to throw it and throws it. Which might work against Idaho State and maybe even Wisconsin/Iowa/Northwestern, but not Ohio St.

Beck knows Taylor's tendencies because he has access to game film from the past three seasons. The patterns aren't difficult to pin down. The key is, don't force him into situations where these glaring weaknesses will show up and hurt us.

3rd and 10 on our own side of the field, tied at 0. SCREEN or DRAW. Straight drop-back pass = telegraphed pass for an easy INT.

3rd and 5 on our own side of the field, up 17-14. SCREEN, DRAW, or PLAY-ACTION. Straight drop-back pass = telegraphed pass for an easy INT.

 
I thought the most efficient play calling was when we would get those little yellow bean bags tossed at us consecutively. It always seemed to work out well. Ok, in all seriousness I didn't mind Beck's play calling I thought it was becoming progressively better from the UCLA game. However, Martinez still has that tendency to fall back to old form and lob passes to the flats or down the field - note key interceptions. I absolutely lost it when Martinez began arguing with Bo and Gantz on the sideline, the kid is arrogant as anyone and I want to know what his arguement was based on? Even if the receiver was suppose to run a different route, Martinez threw the ball with his purse and it looked more like a pop fly than a collegiate quarterback. Alright, I'm finished with my rant, I really think these next two weeks will be a blessing in disguise, Bo will whoop them into shape and we will go 6-0. The only game that scares me is Michigan. Other than that, I see an easy schedule ahead. Personally, I think Northwestern is overrated, but who knows. I hope everyone has had a chance to digress and realizes at the end of the day, we still have a shot to end up in a better position than last year.

 
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