Begin the season as The Blackshirts?

[Chaddyboxer]

Count me in the crowd that doesn't thinks you start the season with them ... but they can be taken away. The simple fact of the matter is, not every defense is going to be blackshirt caliber - and when they lose that - they lose their edge and the Blackshirt tradition is just a "given". I want it to be something more than that. And yes, I want them to feel ashamed and embarrassed with their performances if they have the blackshirts taken away from them.

Well if I am in charge of administering the blackshirt program to your standards, the tradition is already dead. I have not given any out for two years and therefore have not had any to take away. Consequently everyone has forgotten about it and we're still stuck with a defense that sh#ts the bed on a regular basis. So what has that way achieved?

The tradition is dead until it is worthy of being revived.

And that means don't give em out. I wouldn't disagree with that decision one bit.

 

[EZ-E]

EZ-E, yes the game has changed somewhat in that regard but it is not light years different either. Yes teams may not be able to dominate and dictate like ot used to be but a defensive unit can still be feared and an offense can still take what is available. There are many teams today that have defenses that other teams really don't want to line up against. Bama has one of those, we do not. It can be better and I am hopeful and reservedly confident it will be better.

I can remember as far back as 94 and through 99. I can't for the life of me remember any of those teams going against a team that ran every play from the shotgun, ran close to 60-70 plays a game, had anywhere near as good of facilities as we did, had the strength program we did, had near the following we did, had near the walk-on program we did, had near the number of players (on and off scholarship) we did, had near the budget we did. There were programs that had a few of those, but not one program had everything we did.

While a football field is still 100 yards long and 50 yards wide, football is absolutely a lot different in a lot of different aspects than it was in the 90s. There are now scholarship limits, no prop 48s, teams model their strength programs after ours, kids now a days that would have walked on in the 90s now take scholarships at lower-tier schools because there is a lot more opportunities and the invention of recruiting services.

My point being we don't have the same advantages that we had in the 90s since the NCAA leveled the playing field. Therefore, (again) we will never again have an offense or a defense that can give the other team the gameplan each week on both sides and win.

Can we be feared? Absolutely. Are there teams that don't wanna play Pelini defenses? Yes there are. But I fear a lot of your standards of BlackShirt defenses will drastically need to change. The days of holding BCS schools under 100 yards of total offense every week are over.

I may or may not owe some people an apology in this thread, however there is nothing more frustrating to me than when people try to compare the past five seasons to the run we had in the 90s and I felt some of the comments were bordering on that. Everybody on this board should be able to see the different sets of circumstances. The fact is we may never have another run like we did in the 90s. Lets face reality, it might not happen. We should absolutely strive for that, but getting back there isn't a garuntee. I am very excited about what we have and I know everybody in this program is working their butts off to get better. But again as I reiterate, we will never be as dominant as we were in the 90s. There isn't a program in the Nation that is or ever will be again.

 

[The Duke]

First of all this has been a great discussion. Both sides have made very valid arguments. I finally decided to do some research for the entire board so that we could all know what the real history of Nebraska's Blackshirts really is. What I found was an in-depth look at how Nebraska's Blackshirts tradition really came to be, and what the Blackshirts truly mean to this football team. I would encourage any of you who may have posted in this thread to read this article in it's entirety http://www.huskers.c...100&ATCLID=4435

IMPORTANT INFORMATION & QUOTES FROM THE ARTICLE:

"The way Kelly told the story, when players were practicing with the defense, they had worn gray pullovers. Then when the team was divided into offensive and defensive units, the black pullovers were given only to first-team defenders, as a way to motivate those on the lower units."

"A player might have a black pullover one day and a gray one the next. They had to continually be earned."

"During Tom Osborne's Hall-of-Fame tenure as head coach, members of the top defensive units received Blackshirts at the end of pre-season practice, the week before the opening game. Typically before bowl games, McBride would award all senior defensive players the coveted practice jerseys at the bowl site, to wear during game preparations."

 

[JJ Husker]

EZ-E, I completely understand all of that. My goal has not been to imply that we can or ever will return to the glory years of TO and the nineties. I began by attempting to make the simple and limited point that I feel the blackshirt tradition, as it used to be administered, may provide better motivation for the players and therefore may be better for the program.

The thing that is frustrating me in this whole discussion is the people that think the recent Pelini way of earning them means they are really be earned. Whereas handing them out to the starters prior to the first game apparently means they have not been earned. IMO proving through the course of the off season and in practice that you are the best player at your starting position is earning it. Conversely, the coach giving you one in week 8, because of calendar constraints, after some random performance, not significantly different from prior efforts, is not earning it. I guess the basic problem is that many in the younger crowd are strongly adverse to acknowledging that sometimes the older, more traditional way of doing something, anything, can be better than the latest newfangled way. It has nothing to do with mindlessly pining away for the old glory days but everything to do with what some of us old "blue hairs" feel will most benefit the team. I think we all agree a more tenacious D (Jack Black reference not intended) is what we all desire.

 

[JJ Husker]

Very good and timely link Duke. +1

 

[Count 'Bility]

I believe this discusssion has taken on more of a statistical and/or numbers turn. To me, this whole Blackshirts discussion is not about that at all. As EZ said, the game has changed, and rarely to we see a total shutdown mode anymore (unless we're playing Iowa). To me, the Blackshirts are more of a pscychological symbol. Play like Blackshirts. Play with fire in your eyes. Show me that passion, that swagger that we saw from the Wistroms, Peters, Polks, Brown Brothers, and so on. While the performances and numbers shouldnt be expected, the emotional dedication should be. That is NOT too much to ask for, and is what this discussion should be about. I honestly have not seen this kind fire since Bo's nuts were half removed after that night in College Station. I will continue to go back to that moment. And I still hope that Bo this year changes it and gives em out before the year with this very young group. Light a fire under their a$$ so we can play some ball.

 

[lo country]

The tradition was that they were earned prior to the first game. If we want to go back to the traditions that made NU great, we need to go back to that. The guys earn these by going hard in spring, summer and fall practice. the jersey's are awarded by the coaches who see them first hand in this environment.

Let the guys beat each other senseless to earn the coveted prize of the jersey. Coach Brown alluded to this mentality when speaking of the work AA has put in since arriving. AA knew the goal and what it would take to be the man. He worked his butt off. On special teams, in the weight room and when given the opportunity on the field. He got "it". Guys who get "it" on the D would do what ever it takes to get the jersey. This is the mentality that earning it on the practice field would bring. For the record I like J Peter. He has id right when he said that practices were much harder than games. I would like to think this was because of the street brawling mentality these guys had when they slipped on the Black Shirts. The symbol is the skull and crossbones for a reasons...........

Bo's current method has no rhyme or reason. A great stand against some also ran program means nothing. Letting 23 guys get them means nothing. He has established permanent captains. Great. He is making the guys accountable to the staff and each other. Great. Now cry havoc and let slip the Blackshirts prior to game one. Guys don't pull their weight on D, they answer to them. Get the swagger and the nasty back. Make people afraid to play us again. Make teams scared after the beat downs of this season that they have to face us again next year. The problem, as I see it is that no one fears NU any more.

You somewhat lost me at the Jason Peter comment. Guy did a ton of great things here and some of the absolute very basic things he says are okay. But the man is a bigot.

You do also realize that with as many different packages we run, there could be different starters each game. Cainte Evans was our nickelback last year, wasn't always on the field on the first play. Does he not get one because he doesn't "start" in our base package???

The J Peter comment was in regards to his mentality and ferocity he brought to the game and practice. He got "it" when it came to the mentality needed and understood how much opening that locker and seeing a Black shirt meant.

My number "23" was in response to Bo having given out like 20 in one year. Starters in nickel and dime packages should get one. I guy who steps in for an injured starter shouldn't. When everyone CAN get one, it takes away the uniqueness of the jersey.

Again, under McBride there was a tradition ie before first game starters get them. What is it now? I have no idea. It could be before the first game, a big game after a solid performance in week 6? Again, this isn't a tradition IMO.

 

[knapplc]

The biggest problem I have with Bo's method of handing out the Blackshirts is that it creates exactly this kind of controversy. Players get bugged about it by their buddies, the press asks questions about it, it becomes a distraction where no distraction needs to exist. This is something Bo needs to learn as a Head Coach - minimize the outside noise directed at your team and let them focus on the business of getting better on the field. Smart coaches create rules to eliminate these kinds of off-field distractions. For some reason, Bo has allowed this to become a topic, and it doesn't need to be.

Next, the implication coming out of Fall camp without a Blackshirt is that you need more work, you need to improve. OK, "keep them hungry" isn't a terrible idea, but a better idea would be to do your job as a coach well enough that these guys are ready from day one, opening kickoff of the first game. If these defenses aren't good enough to be Blackshirts, then why the hell are we putting them on the field? The burden for molding them into a decent unit falls on Bo and Papuchis. If they're not Blackshirts, then Bo and the defensive coaches aren't doing their jobs.

Finally, through Bo's first five years there has been no discernible difference in the play of the defense before and after they "earn" their Blackshirts. Statistically their production is about the same, and mentally they seem to have a dropoff after "earning" them. Further, what kind of grand tradition is it that awards Blackshirts to a defense after they beat South Dakota State? Or after a loss? If the argument is that Bo's method is sound because we're making them earn it on the field, the benchmark should be clear, it should be after reaching some kind of milestone or exhibiting some kind of excellence. And once given, those Blackshirts had damned well better be living up to that ideal the rest of the year.

If not, the burden for their mediocrity lies squarely on Bo's shoulders, and that of the rest of the coaching staff. And that's why it's in Bo's best interest to end this method of distributing the Blackshirts.

 

[BigRedBuster]

The tradition was that they were earned prior to the first game. If we want to go back to the traditions that made NU great, we need to go back to that. The guys earn these by going hard in spring, summer and fall practice. the jersey's are awarded by the coaches who see them first hand in this environment.

Let the guys beat each other senseless to earn the coveted prize of the jersey. Coach Brown alluded to this mentality when speaking of the work AA has put in since arriving. AA knew the goal and what it would take to be the man. He worked his butt off. On special teams, in the weight room and when given the opportunity on the field. He got "it". Guys who get "it" on the D would do what ever it takes to get the jersey. This is the mentality that earning it on the practice field would bring. For the record I like J Peter. He has id right when he said that practices were much harder than games. I would like to think this was because of the street brawling mentality these guys had when they slipped on the Black Shirts. The symbol is the skull and crossbones for a reasons...........

Bo's current method has no rhyme or reason. A great stand against some also ran program means nothing. Letting 23 guys get them means nothing. He has established permanent captains. Great. He is making the guys accountable to the staff and each other. Great. Now cry havoc and let slip the Blackshirts prior to game one. Guys don't pull their weight on D, they answer to them. Get the swagger and the nasty back. Make people afraid to play us again. Make teams scared after the beat downs of this season that they have to face us again next year. The problem, as I see it is that no one fears NU any more.

You somewhat lost me at the Jason Peter comment. Guy did a ton of great things here and some of the absolute very basic things he says are okay. But the man is a bigot.

You do also realize that with as many different packages we run, there could be different starters each game. Cainte Evans was our nickelback last year, wasn't always on the field on the first play. Does he not get one because he doesn't "start" in our base package???

The J Peter comment was in regards to his mentality and ferocity he brought to the game and practice. He got "it" when it came to the mentality needed and understood how much opening that locker and seeing a Black shirt meant.

My number "23" was in response to Bo having given out like 20 in one year. Starters in nickel and dime packages should get one. I guy who steps in for an injured starter shouldn't. When everyone CAN get one, it takes away the uniqueness of the jersey.

Again, under McBride there was a tradition ie before first game starters get them. What is it now? I have no idea. It could be before the first game, a big game after a solid performance in week 6? Again, this isn't a tradition IMO.

Completely agree with you lo. I have had some major arguments with people who claim the most athletic person should be playing no matter what they do in practice. Their attitude was....."some people just aren't good practicers". Well.....(pure speculation) I believe that is the problem with some of what we have seen on the field as far as our defense. JP's comments are exactly right. Those guys need to go on that practice field every day expecting to have a battle. Practice should be much harder than any game. I have told that over and over to my kids and I can see my oldest two have taken it to heart and they have had more success in sports than their friends who probably have more pure talent.

I believe this mentality changed when Callyclown was here and ran more of an NFL type practice.

The Blackshirts are a practice jersey. Make them earn it in the fall camp and make them keep it by how they do in the season.

 

[JJ Husker]

I believe this discusssion has taken on more of a statistical and/or numbers turn. To me, this whole Blackshirts discussion is not about that at all. As EZ said, the game has changed, and rarely to we see a total shutdown mode anymore (unless we're playing Iowa). To me, the Blackshirts are more of a pscychological symbol. Play like Blackshirts. Play with fire in your eyes. Show me that passion, that swagger that we saw from the Wistroms, Peters, Polks, Brown Brothers, and so on. While the performances and numbers shouldnt be expected, the emotional dedication should be. That is NOT too much to ask for, and is what this discussion should be about. I honestly have not seen this kind fire since Bo's nuts were half removed after that night in College Station. I will continue to go back to that moment. And I still hope that Bo this year changes it and gives em out before the year with this very young group. Light a fire under their a$$ so we can play some ball.

The biggest problem I have with Bo's method of handing out the Blackshirts is that it creates exactly this kind of controversy. Players get bugged about it by their buddies, the press asks questions about it, it becomes a distraction where no distraction needs to exist. This is something Bo needs to learn as a Head Coach - minimize the outside noise directed at your team and let them focus on the business of getting better on the field. Smart coaches create rules to eliminate these kinds of off-field distractions. For some reason, Bo has allowed this to become a topic, and it doesn't need to be.

Next, the implication coming out of Fall camp without a Blackshirt is that you need more work, you need to improve. OK, "keep them hungry" isn't a terrible idea, but a better idea would be to do your job as a coach well enough that these guys are ready from day one, opening kickoff of the first game. If these defenses aren't good enough to be Blackshirts, then why the hell are we putting them on the field? The burden for molding them into a decent unit falls on Bo and Papuchis. If they're not Blackshirts, then Bo and the defensive coaches aren't doing their jobs.

Finally, through Bo's first five years there has been no discernible difference in the play of the defense before and after they "earn" their Blackshirts. Statistically their production is about the same, and mentally they seem to have a dropoff after "earning" them. Further, what kind of grand tradition is it that awards Blackshirts to a defense after they beat South Dakota State? Or after a loss? If the argument is that Bo's method is sound because we're making them earn it on the field, the benchmark should be clear, it should be after reaching some kind of milestone or exhibiting some kind of excellence. And once given, those Blackshirts had damned well better be living up to that ideal the rest of the year.

If not, the burden for their mediocrity lies squarely on Bo's shoulders, and that of the rest of the coaching staff. And that's why it's in Bo's best interest to end this method of distributing the Blackshirts.

Good posts guys.

 

[huskered17]

If the point in the season when they are handed out doesn't make any difference in how the team plays, they why do you care if they are handed out at all? If our defense is going to be below average, do we just hand them out because its been done that way for 50 years? Or do you give them a tangible goal to work toward, even if they don't get all the way there?
Bo's way of continuing the tradition says you have to earn it. But most of the argument against it is basically that they are entitled to it. That seems exactly backwards of the Blackshirts spirit to me.

Did you read any of the posts in this thread? Not one single person has said they are entitled to them. This whole idea that it's not a blackshirts defense unless they perform to some unknown standard, and therefore they aren't earned until some point determined by Bo, is the problem. I want them earned each and every day. The standard for earning it is being the best on the team at your starting position. It doesn't have anything to do with being as good as the 1993 unit or anything of the sort. That part of the equation comes about on it's own by being forced to compete daily for your blackshirt. It's just unfortunate when the D isn't very good but the best we have should still be considered the blackshirts.

:yeah They were given out to the starters at the beginning of each season period. No one ever said you have to be all world to get one. If you start you get one. Can't pickup Bo's scheme, that's on Bo. He recruited them. GBR!!!

 

[The Duke]

The biggest problem I have with Bo's method of handing out the Blackshirts is that it creates exactly this kind of controversy. Players get bugged about it by their buddies, the press asks questions about it, it becomes a distraction where no distraction needs to exist. This is something Bo needs to learn as a Head Coach - minimize the outside noise directed at your team and let them focus on the business of getting better on the field. Smart coaches create rules to eliminate these kinds of off-field distractions. For some reason, Bo has allowed this to become a topic, and it doesn't need to be.

Next, the implication coming out of Fall camp without a Blackshirt is that you need more work, you need to improve. OK, "keep them hungry" isn't a terrible idea, but a better idea would be to do your job as a coach well enough that these guys are ready from day one, opening kickoff of the first game. If these defenses aren't good enough to be Blackshirts, then why the hell are we putting them on the field? The burden for molding them into a decent unit falls on Bo and Papuchis. If they're not Blackshirts, then Bo and the defensive coaches aren't doing their jobs.

Finally, through Bo's first five years there has been no discernible difference in the play of the defense before and after they "earn" their Blackshirts. Statistically their production is about the same, and mentally they seem to have a dropoff after "earning" them. Further, what kind of grand tradition is it that awards Blackshirts to a defense after they beat South Dakota State? Or after a loss? If the argument is that Bo's method is sound because we're making them earn it on the field, the benchmark should be clear, it should be after reaching some kind of milestone or exhibiting some kind of excellence. And once given, those Blackshirts had damned well better be living up to that ideal the rest of the year.

If not, the burden for their mediocrity lies squarely on Bo's shoulders, and that of the rest of the coaching staff. And that's why it's in Bo's best interest to end this method of distributing the Blackshirts.

+1

Very well written Knapp! You mentioned exactly one of my biggest gripes with Bo's system for handing out the Blackshirts. He creates a distraction & constant media firestorm that doesn't even need to happen. If he hands out the Blackshirts before Week 1, then that is one less question that he has to answer as the season progresses.

 

[Blackshirt96]

Give them out to start & make the #2 guys push the #1 guys to keep them.

 

[The Dude]

Averaging 15-20 points allowed per game is still a perfectly reasonable expectation. Yes, even in this day and age.

17 teams did that last season. 6 teams averaged less than 15.

 

[EZ-E]

The biggest problem I have with Bo's method of handing out the Blackshirts is that it creates exactly this kind of controversy. Players get bugged about it by their buddies, the press asks questions about it, it becomes a distraction where no distraction needs to exist. This is something Bo needs to learn as a Head Coach - minimize the outside noise directed at your team and let them focus on the business of getting better on the field. Smart coaches create rules to eliminate these kinds of off-field distractions. For some reason, Bo has allowed this to become a topic, and it doesn't need to be.
Next, the implication coming out of Fall camp without a Blackshirt is that you need more work, you need to improve. OK, "keep them hungry" isn't a terrible idea, but a better idea would be to do your job as a coach well enough that these guys are ready from day one, opening kickoff of the first game. If these defenses aren't good enough to be Blackshirts, then why the hell are we putting them on the field? The burden for molding them into a decent unit falls on Bo and Papuchis. If they're not Blackshirts, then Bo and the defensive coaches aren't doing their jobs.

Finally, through Bo's first five years there has been no discernible difference in the play of the defense before and after they "earn" their Blackshirts. Statistically their production is about the same, and mentally they seem to have a dropoff after "earning" them. Further, what kind of grand tradition is it that awards Blackshirts to a defense after they beat South Dakota State? Or after a loss? If the argument is that Bo's method is sound because we're making them earn it on the field, the benchmark should be clear, it should be after reaching some kind of milestone or exhibiting some kind of excellence. And once given, those Blackshirts had damned well better be living up to that ideal the rest of the year.

If not, the burden for their mediocrity lies squarely on Bo's shoulders, and that of the rest of the coaching staff. And that's why it's in Bo's best interest to end this method of distributing the Blackshirts.

1) Bo is going to have a media storm around this topic regardless of how it's done. You don't think if we have a few poor games he would be answering questions about taking them away constantly??

2) You have measuring stick as to whether the guys have worked hard enough or you have done your job as the HC before you play your first FBS game.