Begin the season as The Blackshirts?

[The King]

I will say this though - if Jonathan Rose isn't starting - something didn't click between practice and scrimmage. He is flat out our best player in the secondary, period. Taylor knows a lot about flinging the ball towards him - he is good at baiting the QB into thinking his receiver his open then using his speed to step in front.

 

[EZ-E]

He asked for practice player examples of guys we have started and it hasn't worked out. I have them to him. They exist.

 

[The King]

Suh was one for a while, too. Difference is, they got it to click for him.

 

[EZ-E]

I will say this though - if Jonathan Rose isn't starting - something didn't click between practice and scrimmage. He is flat out our best player in the secondary, period. Taylor knows a lot about flinging the ball towards him - he is good at baiting the QB into thinking his receiver his open then using his speed to step in front.

Got a text from somebody last night that said

"Randy Gregory hype? Believe it."

Nothing different than what we have heard but it was nice to hear from someone that isn't a journalist.

 

[True2tRA]

I will say this though - if Jonathan Rose isn't starting - something didn't click between practice and scrimmage. He is flat out our best player in the secondary, period. Taylor knows a lot about flinging the ball towards him - he is good at baiting the QB into thinking his receiver his open then using his speed to step in front.

Got a text from somebody last night that said

"Randy Gregory hype? Believe it."

Nothing different than what we have heard but it was nice to hear from someone that isn't a journalist.

I can tell you right now, I'll buy into the Adam Taylor hype long before I buy into any incoming defensive linemen into this program. I just will not believe it til I see it with this guy or any future defensive line recruits. Unfortunately, I think it has less to do with the actual players talent, and more to do with what a believe is a very weak philosophy and approach Bo takes with the way he uses his defensive linemen. But I think most know how much I hate this defensive scheme so no point in getting into that.

 

[True2tRA]

So let's go with this scenario. Starter x doesn't perform well on gameday, and has his blackshirt taken away and given to backup y.

Starter x is told "you want it back? earn it" and so he does. He is a much better player than backup y (hence being a starter), so after owning backup y's lunch in practice on monday he gets his blackshirt back, having earned it over the player that shouldn't have ever been in front of him in the first place.

What does this accomplish? It's like firing a welder or a cook and hiring an inexperienced student in their place telling them to earn their job back - after 5 minutes, they have earned it back because they were more deserving of it in the first place. Seems like a pointless exercise.

I suppose if you look at it in the wrong light that it is pointless. Sure if the defense and most players, top to bottom, just plain aren't very good or don't have pride in earning or keeping their blackshirt then it is rather pointless either way. My problem with the current system is it merely provides a distraction and appears to be a negative or non motivator for the players. There is no benefit to the team if an under performing defense is concerned about when they are going to get their blackshirts. Picking some relatively better than average performance in the middle or later part of the season simply has not worked to any positive effect. Look at knapps summary of when Bo has handed them out, why, and then the D's performance after that.

My opinion is that it is a useless window dressing tradition if it does not motivate the players and help make the whole unit better. Bo's way has not accomplished those goals. If you are the best performing player at your position, you have earned it whether you are very good or not. If you stumble one week and it goes to #2 on the depth chart, hopefully it would motivate both players, one to get it back and one to keep it and possibly 3 or 4 to step up their game and go after it. If nobody has them, you don't have that.

The other problem I see, that nobody has brought up, is that the current system seems to put all responsibility on the players and zero on the coaching staff. The gist is, we coaches have these to hand out but you guys haven't done enough to earn them. It kind of glosses over that possibly the coaches aren't getting their job done too and puts it all on the players. If they give them out for the first game, they then have to admit that this is the best we've got to offer and, if it's not real impressive, then that's on the coaches as well. It helps to hold them accountable for their recruiting and what they're accomplishing in practices.

My only dog in the fight, besides the obvious desire for a more sound defense, is that I don't want to see the tradition watered down to having no meaning. Giving them out in week 8 and getting your a$$ handed to you in week 9 and the CCG tarnishes the tradition way more than giving them out week one and then going about your business with the constant motivation of keeping that shirt or getting it from the next guy.

Didn't see this last night but plus 1. Great post.

 

[EZ-E]

I will say this though - if Jonathan Rose isn't starting - something didn't click between practice and scrimmage. He is flat out our best player in the secondary, period. Taylor knows a lot about flinging the ball towards him - he is good at baiting the QB into thinking his receiver his open then using his speed to step in front.

Got a text from somebody last night that said

"Randy Gregory hype? Believe it."

Nothing different than what we have heard but it was nice to hear from someone that isn't a journalist.

I can tell you right now, I'll buy into the Adam Taylor hype long before I buy into any incoming defensive linemen into this program. I just will not believe it til I see it with this guy or any future defensive line recruits. Unfortunately, I think it has less to do with the actual players talent, and more to do with what a believe is a very weak philosophy and approach Bo takes with the way he uses his defensive linemen. But I think most know how much I hate this defensive scheme so no point in getting into that.

So Randy Gregory has to prove it on the field but the guys awarded blackshirts don't before they are given to them???

 

[True2tRA]

I will say this though - if Jonathan Rose isn't starting - something didn't click between practice and scrimmage. He is flat out our best player in the secondary, period. Taylor knows a lot about flinging the ball towards him - he is good at baiting the QB into thinking his receiver his open then using his speed to step in front.

Got a text from somebody last night that said

"Randy Gregory hype? Believe it."

Nothing different than what we have heard but it was nice to hear from someone that isn't a journalist.

I can tell you right now, I'll buy into the Adam Taylor hype long before I buy into any incoming defensive linemen into this program. I just will not believe it til I see it with this guy or any future defensive line recruits. Unfortunately, I think it has less to do with the actual players talent, and more to do with what a believe is a very weak philosophy and approach Bo takes with the way he uses his defensive linemen. But I think most know how much I hate this defensive scheme so no point in getting into that.

So Randy Gregory has to prove it on the field but the guys awarded blackshirts don't before they are given to them???

What the hell does getting a Blackshirt have to do with me buying into the hype on a kid who just walked onto campus a week ago? I have literally no clue what you're getting at?

I've never seen this kid play a down. I don't get overly excited about any incoming players unless I have some sort of real knowledge on their skill set. I especially don't buy into any DL hype with this current team because I don't like the way we utilize DL on this team.

Secondly, I have nothing to do with whether or not this kid gets a. Blackshirt. The guy making that call gets to,see this kid in practice every day and gets to decide when and how he plays. I'll leave it to Bo how he decides to treat the Blackshirt tradition. All my point was last night is that I don't think we have had a defense deserving of Blackshirts for a few years, and I wouldn't care if they were not handed out at all. The tradition should mean something and be respected and right now I don't think it is held as highly as it should be.

 

[True2tRA]

Matter of fact, I believe I've said nothing but the exact opposite of what you just said. I mean literally the exact opposite.

 

[JJ Husker]

So...taking this whole thread in....does the 2009 defense qualify as a Blackshirt defense?! If not, and its not up to standards, why even have the Blackshirt tradition exist anymore?....

This is at the heart of the problem. Bo's way says it does or doesn't exist. And even when he determines it does exist there is ample evidence proving it does not. But, if starters are awarded blackshirts by week one, it always exists. It's just that it still might not be very good some years. That's always been the case.

So what would you rather have.....give the blackshirts out every year even though NEB's defense may stink...or stink it up a few games.....or wait to hand them out until they are earned. I think Bo has a decent grasp on the blackshirts tradition...that's the reason why he has players earn them. He knows that those past defenses were a thing of beauty, a beast that couldn't be stopped nor tamed against an opposing offense. At the end of the day, if NEB doesn't have a blackshirt-type caliber defense this year, does NEB even give them out? I feel that the blackshirt tradition is something very deep, something many young people of today (I'm only 27) would have trouble understanding. From trying to look at it from your perspective, I think the 2009 defense was representative of a blackshirt defense IN A WAY...but it still wasn't the caliber of old. A true blackshirt defense has a nastiness, callousness and persistence to stop anyone, any offense. It was not only a group of individuals who played football, but a group of men who were straight bad asses, gave off a perception of "unstoppable beings" in a way. They transcended any other defense in college football because they were on a different level. This is how I see and envision the blackshirts of old.

Sorry Chaddy, I missed this question directed at me earlier but I'll try to answer it now.

I would rather have them handed out every year, at the beginning of the season. I would like to see them awarded to the starting player at each defensive package position. As far as the tradition of handing out blackshirts for this designation, it does not matter to me if they are representative of the blackshirts of old or not.

Try for a minute to completely forget about the way Bo says they need to be earned and let's revisit how they were earned prior to Bo. They were earned by players working their tail off in the off season and by performing well in practice. They were then awarded to the starters prior to the first game. But the earning them didn't stop there or once they had received them. The player had to continue to work hard, practice and play well. If they didn't, the next guy on the depth chart, who outworked or outperformed them, would be awarded that shirt and it would be taken away from the original player. any and all shirts were up for grabs each and every day. By my way of thinking, that is much more thorough way to earn it and keep earning it. It seems once Bo finally determines they are worthy for the shirt (which IMO has not been very often if the idea is to compare them to the great prior defenses), there is much buzz for a day or two and then it would appear the players are no longer concerned about striving for it or maintaining it. They got it, it's over, end of story.

It is counterproductive and not fair to take that tradition of the shirts and then try to hold subsequent players up to the standards of our greatest defenses and players. Too many are going to fall short in that unfair comparison. The Blackshirts have been around since the mid 60's. I guarantee you that not all of those units played lights out "Blackshirts" defense. Some of them did however, and that is why today when we hear or use the term "Blackshirts" we think of badass unstoppable defense. If the standard is going to be the greatest mid 90's defense we have ever and are likely ever to see, then we are setting ourselves up for constant disappointment. I think the tradition belongs to the best we have each and every year not to the one or two best we ever had in our history. And, I think treating it in that manner rather than Bo's way will yield more benefits for the team in the long run. I have some faith that the players would pick up on that and elevate their game to keep earning that shirt each and every day.

 

[EZ-E]

I will say this though - if Jonathan Rose isn't starting - something didn't click between practice and scrimmage. He is flat out our best player in the secondary, period. Taylor knows a lot about flinging the ball towards him - he is good at baiting the QB into thinking his receiver his open then using his speed to step in front.

Got a text from somebody last night that said

"Randy Gregory hype? Believe it."

Nothing different than what we have heard but it was nice to hear from someone that isn't a journalist.

I can tell you right now, I'll buy into the Adam Taylor hype long before I buy into any incoming defensive linemen into this program. I just will not believe it til I see it with this guy or any future defensive line recruits. Unfortunately, I think it has less to do with the actual players talent, and more to do with what a believe is a very weak philosophy and approach Bo takes with the way he uses his defensive linemen. But I think most know how much I hate this defensive scheme so no point in getting into that.

So Randy Gregory has to prove it on the field but the guys awarded blackshirts don't before they are given to them???

What the hell does getting a Blackshirt have to do with me buying into the hype on a kid who just walked onto campus a week ago? I have literally no clue what you're getting at?

I've never seen this kid play a down. I don't get overly excited about any incoming players unless I have some sort of real knowledge on their skill set. I especially don't buy into any DL hype with this current team because I don't like the way we utilize DL on this team.

Secondly, I have nothing to do with whether or not this kid gets a. Blackshirt. The guy making that call gets to,see this kid in practice every day and gets to decide when and how he plays. I'll leave it to Bo how he decides to treat the Blackshirt tradition. All my point was last night is that I don't think we have had a defense deserving of Blackshirts for a few years, and I wouldn't care if they were not handed out at all. The tradition should mean something and be respected and right now I don't think it is held as highly as it should be.

I know man.

I'm bored at work I was just trying to push your buttons

 

[walksalone]

I have always liked the "Blackshirt" tradition but more importantly, I want a defense that scares the hell out of people, that offensive coordinators see that they're playing us next and say "f*ck me" out loud, that the next day the opposing QB can't get out of bed cause he feels like he got hit by a bus...

Whether that's achieved by recruiting, scheme, or a combination of both, it doesn't matter to me...

 

[Mavric]

Bo's way of continuing the tradition says you have to earn it. But most of the argument against it is basically that they are entitled to it. That seems exactly backwards of the Blackshirts spirit to me.

I wouldn't say entitlted at all, and moreover, it isn't even a tangible reward to begin with. It's purely symbolic, a symbol of the might of the Nebraska Top Defense, a role which must every year be filled by those 11-15 guys (give or take) who must then aspire to be worthy of their standard. You ascend the throne, you wear the purple; now act like you're worthy of it. I'm a staunch believer in this hallowed tradition, but it's not the HC's job to run traditions per script even if he sees things a different way.

Clearly Bo is a superlative defensive coordinator and while these aren't Osborne's Blackshirts that we've always associated with the Nebraska D, they are the only thing they can be: Bo's defense. Admittedly, I'm a little disappointed that Bo doesn't embrace the blackshirt tradition, but tradition clearly only gets you so far.

I'm pretty sure getting something without regard to performance is the definition of "entitled".

I'm even more sure that a black jersey that can be worn is tangible.

Seems like most of the argument comes down to individual vs. team. In the past the "starting" (plus whatever) defense has gotten Blackshirts. I.e., the best players at each position are Blackshirts individually and they form the unit. The thing that Bo has changed is he doesn't care as much who is the best at each position, he expects performance out of the Blackshirts as a unit, thus the team has to earn the Blackshirts. Obviously that is different from tradition. But when you have the team choosing to turn down the Blackshirts even when Bo wants to give them out because they feel they can still do better, I don't see that as a bad thing. If the team is that focused on getting better, I highly doubt a few reporters asking questions about them is that much of a distraction.

 

[Mavric]

The biggest problem I have with Bo's method is there's no consistency. The criteria for earning them doesn't seem set in stone, and it appears he uses them as a motivational tool. Unfortunately, it often doesn't motivate anything.

Look at how the team has earned them, and what happened after they earned them, through Bo's tenure.

2008

Earned: Blackshirts were handed out after the 10th game, a victory over Kansas where we gave up 35 points and 422 yards. A fair portion of those points/yards came in garbage time, as Nebraska led 31-21 in the fourth quarter before both teams' defenses coasted and each scored twice more.

Next Game: A victory over Kansas State where we gave up 28 points and 247 yards. The Huskers won their last three games after receiving the Blackshirts.

2009

Earned: Blackshirts were handed out after the 6th game, a loss at home to Texas Tech where we gave up 31 points but only 259 yards. This was the game where the Tech QB (I forget his name) threw up half a dozen prayers and his WRs made circus catches. Tremendously lucky game for Tech.

Next Game: A loss at home to Iowa State where we gave up 9 points and 239 yards. This was the infamous 8-turnover game where everyone fumbled and Lee threw costly picks. The Huskers won six of their last seven games after receiving the Blackshirts, the lone loss coming against Texas in the Big XII CCG, the infamous 00:01 game.

2010

Earned: Blackshirts were handed out after the 4th game, a victory over South Dakota State where we gave up 3 points and 236 yards. This was a very ugly game, you'll recall, where the Jackrabbits had several concerning drives. Error-filled on the part of the offense, though.

Next Game: A victory over Kansas State where we gave up 13 points and 315 yards on Bill Snyder's birthday. A parting gift as we left the Big XII for Eric the Red's favorite team. The Huskers went 5-4 to finish the season and lost three of their last four. The defense gave up an average of 18 points per loss, but the offense was terrible.

2011

Earned: Blackshirts were handed out after the 8th game, a victory over Michigan State where we gave up 3 points and 187 yards. Nobody can say the defense didn't earn their Blackshirts after this game as they stifled a decent Sparty offense, holding the Big 10's best WR, BJ Cunningham, without a catch.

Next Game: A loss to Northwestern where we gave up 28 points and 468 yards to a team that finished the season 6-7. We couldn't stop a simple crossing pattern all game long and appeared disinterested on defense. Nebraska went 2-2 to end the season, including losses to Michigan and South Carolina where we gave up 45 and 30 points.

2012

Earned: Blackshirts were handed out after the 8th game, a victory over Michigan where we gave up 9 points and 188 yards. The cynic will say that Denard Robinson only played half the game and his replacement, Ron Bellomy, was inept, but Robinson had only rushed for 46 yards (10 carries) and passed for 55 yards (6 of 11) prior to his injury.

Next Game: A win at Michigan State where we gave up 34 points and 361 yards in a very hostile environment. The defense played well enough that game, but they allowed Sparty to move the ball with ease. Nebraska finished the season 3-2, giving up 70 and 45 points in back-to-back season-ending losses to Wisconsin and Georgia.

Over Bo's tenure, without the Blackshirts we're 27-9 (.750 winning percentage) and we give up an average of 20.4 points per game.

With the Blackshirts we're 21-11 (.656) and we give up an average of 22.2 points per game.

The one caveat to these stats is that the easier non-conference schedule is included in the "without Blackshirts" schedule, skewing the numbers slightly in favor of "without."

This is the problem as I see it - there doesn't appear to be any motivation the team derives from earning their Blackshirts. They don't appear to improve, they don't have any great swagger, and they don't appear to carry the pride of earning those Blackshirts onto the field. Of our six worst losses in the past two years (2011: Wisconsin, Michigan; 2012: UCLA, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Georgia), three have come with the Blackshirts and three without.

There is no discernible difference between the defense's play with or without the Blackshirts. There is no discernible merit to "making them earn it," judging either by wins/losses or points/yards allowed.

It's a distraction. It becomes a story line where no story needs to exist. It becomes one more thing an already-struggling unit has to think about.

That's my reasoning for getting rid of Bo's method. Just give them the Blackshirts after Fall Camp and let them get down to the business of playing the game.

So the year we were decent on defense (2008) our defense was decent after the got the Blackshirts. The years we were really good (2009-10) the defense played really well after the were handed out. The years we've been relatively bad (2011-12) the defense played poorly afterwards. I think any attempt to compare the defense before and after distribution is strained at best.

 

[True2tRA]

Okay EZ, I get ya now. Consider my button pushed, I thought you were serious. Luckily I had to get some sleep or I would have opened a serious can of internet message board whoop a$$.