Biden Foreign Policy

Scarlet said:
Report any post of mine to s moderator then.  How is asking someone to explain what they would have done differently in regard to a situation they have been continually whining about trolling?

I'll wait.  
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All you do, that I've seen, is whine about other posters.

I can't give a detailed outline om HOW I WOULD DO IT BETTER because I'm an average Joe who doesn't work in government.  Any proposal I give means nothing.  But fine, I'll humor this for a moment:

For starters, I wouldn't have pushed the deadline back.  Why wait if the fall was inevitable as many are claiming?  Did nothing but endanger our troops if this is an accurate way to look at it.  6 months extra, and it still falls in 48hrs.  Make all the excuses you want, this is a ridiculous outcome.  Strawman away though.

Secondly, the equipment left behind.  Maybe frag the Blackhawks if we're leaving them?  6 months extra, couldn't do that?  Or pickup firearms and armor?  Or pickup briefcase sized drones worth billions of dollars?  Again, make all the excuses you want but this was avoidable with an extra 6 months of strategizing.

Lastly, the Taliban is now trolling the US on social media.  The rest of the world is looking at us as handling this embarrassingly poorly.  This administration made the CORRECT choice of withdrawal.  But they gave themselves 6 extra months to do it and the end result was a rushed flub disaster that undid 20yrs of military presence.

Inevitable or not, this is on Biden and this Administration.  You can hypothesize all you want if this happens the same way 6 months ago or at all under the former Administration.  No way of knowing now.  Just the end results.  And the results suck.

 
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Redux said:
Inevitable or not, this is on Biden and this Administration.  You can hypothesize all you want if this happens the same way 6 months ago or at all under the former Administration.  No way of knowing now.  Just the end results.  And the results suck.
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I agree with some of your points overall, but the bolded is extreme. 15-20 years of failed policy and nation building can't all be put on the back of just one administration.

I absolutely think this situation has not been handled well by the Biden Administration. Full stop. They deserve blame and criticism. But, there were a lot of pieces to this puzzle that can't be "on Biden and this administration." Examples:

  • The years/decades spent training Afghan citizens and military personnel. That stuff dates back to the Bush era, and military leaders have recently acknowledged that too much of their training was focused on U.S. military techniques, which are heavily reliant on air superiority... something that the Afghans don't have. Couple this with claims of corruption, low/no wages and over-burdening... and you get a "military" doomed to fail.
  • Under the table deals between Afghans and the Taliban. There are a lot of local/tribal leaders in Afghanistan that negotiated with the Taliban outside of the U.S. authorities in order to ensure safety for their people. This has also been going on for decades.
  • The Taliban's current advances did not come out of nowhere, nor were they beholden to the last seven months. This has been years of preparation in the making.

IMO, dunking on Biden in totality is without cause. We could probably get into a pedantic back and forth about what percentage of blame goes where, but I don't think it is at all logical or factual to claim "this is on Biden and this Administration" as if that settles it. It does not, IMO.

 
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Enhance said:
I agree with some of your points overall, but the bolded is extreme. 15-20 years of failed policy and nation building can't all be put on the back of just one administration.

I absolutely think this situation has not been handled well by the Biden Administration. Full stop. They deserve blame and criticism. But, there were a lot of pieces to this puzzle that can't be "on Biden and this administration." Examples:

  • The years/decades spent training Afghan citizens and military personnel. That stuff dates back to the Bush era, and military leaders have recently acknowledged that too much of their training was focused on U.S. military techniques, which are heavily reliant on air superiority... something that the Afghans don't have. Couple this with claims of corruption, low/no wages and over-burdening... and you get a "military" doomed to fail.
  • Under the table deals between Afghans and the Taliban. There are a lot of local/tribal leaders in Afghanistan that negotiated with the Taliban outside of the U.S. authorities in order to ensure safety for their people. This has also been going on for decades.
  • The Taliban's current advances did not come out of nowhere, nor were they beholden to the last seven months. This has been years of preparation in the making.

IMO, dunking on Biden in totality is without cause. We could probably get into a pedantic back and forth about what percentage of blame goes where, but I don't think it is at all logical or factual to claim "this is on Biden and this Administration" as if that settles it. It does not, IMO.
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I can't wholeheartedly disagree with anything you said.  Only counter I have is that if this were a different Administration some folks would have little problem assigning blame to one set of people or persons.

For me I probably assign more to this Administration based on the extended timetable.  Had this happened in May, the exact same way, I probably wouldn't be AS disappointed in how it was handled.

And the Drones....like seriously......WHY leave behind the drones?!

 
Redux said:
I can't wholeheartedly disagree with anything you said.  Only counter I have is that if this were a different Administration some folks would have little problem assigning blame to one set of people or persons.
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I think that's kind of what we're seeing now but that doesn't make it right. This is my anecdotal opinion of course, but more conservatively minded folks seem keen to place a lot of blame on Biden (not accusing you of that, just my observation overall). More liberally minded folks seem to want to detract from Biden and focus on 'we had to do it' and blame past administrations.

I think the right place to be is right somewhere in the middle - able to acknowledge the current administration's fumbling while acknowledging effectively 20 years of fumbles. What we're seeing today is more akin to a long simmering stew than a flash sear.

For me I probably assign more to this Administration based on the extended timetable.  Had this happened in May, the exact same way, I probably wouldn't be AS disappointed in how it was handled.
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I won't begrudge you that opinion, but again, I think what we're seeing is a culmination of a lot of bad intelligence, unluckiness and missed opportunities over multiple administrations. I'm going to give heat from Biden back to Bush and everyone in between because that seems a lot more fair to me.

And the Drones....like seriously......WHY leave behind the drones?!
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Yeah IDK about that one either. I'm sure someone somewhere has "reasons," shall we say. I sincerely doubt the Taliban have the knowledge, friends or resources to do much with them but... they definitely seem like something you wouldn't want to fall into enemy hands regardless. I do not understand that one at all right now either.

 
Redux said:
And the Drones....like seriously......WHY leave behind the drones?!
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And the helicopters.   seems like we could have flown these out.   I wonder if the admin has plans to carpet bomb the drones, helicopters, HVs and the abandoned air base

after we get our people out.  I sure hope so.

While I blame Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden for the overall fiasco that is Afghanistan, I have to blame Biden for this very badly executed evacuation of the country and the potential humanitarian crisis to follow.

 
TGHusker said:
And the helicopters.   seems like we could have flown these out.   I wonder if the admin has plans to carpet bomb the drones, helicopters, HVs and the abandoned air base

after we get our people out.  I sure hope so.

While I blame Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden for the overall fiasco that is Afghanistan, I have to blame Biden for this very badly executed evacuation of the country and the potential humanitarian crisis to follow.
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Unless I'm mistaken, the equipment (helicopters, humvees, drones, etc.) were given to the Afghan Army over the last 2 decades and are not under the control of the US.

 
RedDenver said:
Unless I'm mistaken, the equipment (helicopters, humvees, drones, etc.) were given to the Afghan Army over the last 2 decades and are not under the control of the US.
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You are not mistaken.  A part of our 2 trillion $$ "investment' (aka gamble) in Afghan.   All the more reason to carpet bomb them. 

 
As for the U.S.-provided materiel seized by the Taliban elsewhere in Afghanistan, it appears for now that Washington has little recourse.

Among the concerns is a trove of biometric data used by coalition forces to identify and document interpreters and others who aided the war effort. It is unclear if those records were destroyed — or if they’ve fallen into the hands of militants who, U.S. officials fear, could use the data to exact revenge.



Some of the captured equipment, like helicopters and attack planes, may be more useful for propaganda imagery than for everyday use.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2021/08/25/taliban-us-military-weapons/

 
Everyone knew this was going south and it’s going to get worse...


10 US Marines and soldiers killed in Kabul, Afghanistan suicide bombing, officials say
 


i don’t know if this withdrawal was an intelligence failure or a calculated risk by the administration, but either way it’s a crap show that is going to get worse. 
 

1) we screwed up, it’s embarrassing, demoralizing, and shameful. Taliban trying to fly a Blackhawk...are you kidding me!

2) I suspect we will have to go back in some form to mitigate the damage so the withdrawal is moot at this point.

3) I have seen impeachment calls for Biden which are absolute crap. Yes the administration screwed up and lives are gonna be lost, but this country is better than this and we should actually rally and give support. I thought the first impeachment of Trump was crap too. I don’t even remember what is was for. The second, maybe, but what was the point, he was gone. impeachment talk harms the US in all cases.  
 

hopefully Biden can actually lead us. I am willing to give him the opportunity. I don’t think Harris is a good option. Honestly, I think if Trump was still in office the Taliban would be way more cautious because he was to bat $h!t crazy he might turn that country into a crater. Right now the administration looks like it’s cowering. 

 
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