Bo Pelini & Ma'Lik Richmond

[B.B. Hemingway]

The "he was a kid" comment was made to say that kids make mistakes without a full understanding of the consequences, and, especially in his case, the permanent damaged they might be causing.... Obviously, he made a HUGE mistake.

I struggle with using this language. When we look at it as a person making a mistake, no matter how severe, there's this very intransitive framing that's been attached to it. Sure, there's someone hurt in any crime from a house-egging to a shoplifting, but we can fundamentally think of it as someone else's personal mistake.

A rape isn't just someone's personal failing, though. It's as horrific a transgression as one person can inflict upon another. I think it says a lot about some of the proposed outcomes for the perpetrators that the best, and perhaps only way to justify them is to use language that severs this connection.

We also have an unfortunate tendency to see the victims, on some level, as money-chasers.(Brenda Tracy is regularly accused of monetizing her experience by making a career of it). If consolation and justice is really what we want for them, I don't think we would entertain a scenario where she has to watch her perpetrator become a wildly successful millionaire. I think that would be the very opposite of consolation.

Lastly, I think something that's hopefully evident here is the extent to which rapists (particularly underage ones?) are afforded a wide latitude of second chances almost by default. Consider the extent to which we're thinking here about the consequences and the negative impacts to him. There's certainly no deficit of society's consideration for their future. Quite to the contrary. And that seems backwards.

Mistake is probably the wrong word to be used, although his youth (when the rape occurred) was the only reason I used it in the first place. Do you think a 14-16 year old should be given the same punishment as a 40 year old, for example? Personally, I don't think they should.

I admit, I've always been one to question Brenda's motives, and her willingness to talk about it. Unfortunately, I am close to a couple women that have been through this. It is never brought up, and they choose to not talk about it (at least with most of their friends/family). So, yeah. I think it's possible Brenda's willingness to openly discuss it comes from financial award attached to it if she does.

 

[NM11046]

Or from her willingness/desire to educate and keep others from suffering the same fate or deal eith something that happened to them in their past.

Everyone deals with trauma differently - some talk, some can't or dont want to. Doesn't mean those who do are trying to make money. Your friend's choices are just that - choices.

 

[StPaulHusker]

.... Obviously, he made a HUGE mistake. I just feel that if all parties (coaches, player, university)are okay with him on the football team, then he should be allowed to participate.

To be honest, I misunderstood what the petition was calling for before my initial post. I thought they were wanting him removed from the university altogether.

Raping someone isn't a mistake. It's intentional.

 

[knapplc]

Apparently he's sitting out a year. Not sure why he would do that, other than to try to let the heat die down. Doesn't seem to be an eligibility situation.

Player jailed for rape will sit out a year at Youngstown St

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — A man convicted of rape as a teen in a case that drew international attention will be part of the Youngstown State football team this year but won't be allowed to play in any games, the school said Wednesday in responding to criticism surrounding his participation.

Ma'Lik Richmond served about 10 months in a juvenile lockup after being convicted with another Steubenville High School football player of raping a 16-year-old girl during an alcohol-fueled party in 2012. The case brought international attention to the eastern Ohio city of 18,000 and led to allegations of a cover-up to protect the football team.

Richmond, now 21, will be a member of the team at Youngstown State, a Football Championship Subdivision school in northeastern Ohio, but will forfeit a year of participation, the school said in a statement.

"He will be given the opportunity to benefit from group participation, the lessons of hard work and discipline, as well as the camaraderie and guidance of the staff and teammates," the statement said.

"He will also continue to work with the university's director of student outreach and support who assists young men and women in becoming successful students and YSU graduates."

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

Or from her willingness/desire to educate and keep others from suffering the same fate or deal eith something that happened to them in their past.

Everyone deals with trauma differently - some talk, some can't or dont want to. Doesn't mean those who do are trying to make money. Your friend's choices are just that - choices.

Could be both. Likely is.... And I agree, those victims should be allowed to heal as they see fit.

.... Obviously, he made a HUGE mistake. I just feel that if all parties (coaches, player, university)are okay with him on the football team, then he should be allowed to participate.

To be honest, I misunderstood what the petition was calling for before my initial post. I thought they were wanting him removed from the university altogether.

Raping someone isn't a mistake. It's intentional.

I already admitted that using "mistake" was a poor choice of word. As I stated above, the reason behind originally using the word "mistake" was because of his youth. Nevertheless, the word isn't appropriate.

 

[zoogs]

We need people who will staunchly and tirelessly advocate in this area -- indeed, to devote their lives to it. I don't know how to begin to explain this to a skeptic and I understand why skepticism is widespread. I'll try to find an op-ed or something about this, since I can't come up with effective words of my own at the moment. Such a dim and uncharitable view towards rape victims/survivors is a trap I hope we can avoid falling into. Likewise, I see the extremely charitable takes on rapists and their futures as a similarly avoidable trap.

I mean, it's just kind of absurd, isn't it, that after living through this horrific and traumatic gang rape, then keeping silent about it for so long before daring to open up about it, Tracy would get punished in this way?

--

To the question of if he were 16 versus 40, I think not being locked up for life is already an extremely generous second chance. And I'm not sure. 16's not that young. I keep going back to the example of a murderer. "Intentional" is a good word.

 

[zoogs]

Yeah, here's a good (if brief) point:


Another good example: Malala Yousafzai. Is she profiting from having been shot in the head, or is she an incredible and inspiring activist doing valuable work?

 

[Enhance]

The 16/40 debate is a difficult one. IMO, the vast majority of 16 year olds understand right from wrong, understand what sex/rape is and also understand that rape is wrong. It should, IMO, come down to pre-trial psychological tests (and whatever other evaluation procedures are out there) to determine if that 16-year-old is able to be tried as an adult.

16-year-old me would never have committed a crime like this because I knew it was wrong and most of us are in the same boat.

--

Unfortunately for Brenda, we have documented cases of people completely falsifying rape reports for personal gain. It's a deplorable act in its own way. I had the opportunity to meet and interview her once, and I walked away completely convinced of her authenticity.

 

[zoogs]

Yeah, I agree that falsification is also deplorable. But what we're talking about is among people who don't doubt that she went through what she did -- but nonetheless find it discrediting that she would "milk" her experience by speaking out.

There's a desire to silence there, and that in itself is a sort of brutal thing. There's a world in which there's a lot more unanimity and clarity when it comes to acts of rape, and I think that's precisely what the activists brave enough to weather this sort of blowback are fighting for.

 

[Enhance]

I agree with what you're saying, but do you think it's possible and/or likely some people who are critical of her "milking" it are, in fact, somewhat doubtful of her experience? The way my brain is processing this is that the only way I would criticize her efforts is if I, to some degree, disbelieved her story. If I believed her 100% then why would I be critical of her outreach efforts? Do people expect all sexual assault victims to simply slink into the shadows? Or, if those victims are outspoken about it, do whatever they can in their power not to receive financial gain from it?

I know you're not one of those people, zoogs. It's just a challenging thing to wrap my mind around.

 

[zoogs]

Hm. I don't know, and that's a good question. I think there are subsets of people. Some don't believe her, or don't believe her in full. Others I think are along the lines of "Yeah, you got raped, we get it -- now stop talking about it."

It's an uncomfortable thing to be confronted with, and Tracy is doggedly steadfast in her advocacy. In her case, she's also going right after something a lot of us hold dear, our sports fandom. So I think there's a tendency to search for justifications to write her off. Maybe she's unhinged. Maybe she's too extreme. Maybe she's trying too hard to stay relevant and make bank. All reasons to tune her out.

I agree that those expectations -- slink to the shadows, or disavow financial gain despite making it your livelihood -- are absurd.

 

[Crusader Husker]

Sexual assault and domestic violence has been a problem in football for a while. It is good to have a voice, even if it makes some people uncomfortable.

 

[B.B. Hemingway]

I agree with what you're saying, but do you think it's possible and/or likely some people who are critical of her "milking" it are, in fact, somewhat doubtful of her experience? The way my brain is processing this is that the only way I would criticize her efforts is if I, to some degree, disbelieved her story. If I believed her 100% then why would I be critical of her outreach efforts? Do people expect all sexual assault victims to simply slink into the shadows? Or, if those victims are outspoken about it, do whatever they can in their power not to receive financial gain from it?

I know you're not one of those people, zoogs. It's just a challenging thing to wrap my mind around.

Personally, I don't doubt what she says she went through, not one iota. I DO think she is at least partially "milking" her story for money. I DON'T have a problem with that, neither. She's bringing awareness to a disgusting problem, if she wants to make some money doing it, I'm fine with that.

 

[Landlord]

16 year old brains are not fully formed. They are neurologically incapable of making decisions with the same level of foresight and consequence weighing.

That is not an apology for this kid raping a woman. That's science.

 

[StPaulHusker]

Do the people that think she is "milking" her experience think that she should travel the country, give speeches, design a website, write a book, etc all on her own dime or for free?

Some of you in here pay money to have pancakes with a football coach and listen to them talk about far less socially and morally important topics as rape.