Bo v. Saban & Miles after first four years - - now shut up!

[The Maudfather]

Like it has been pointed out, Nebraska is head and shoulders ahead of both Michigan State and Oklahoma State in terms of tradition, fan support, facilities, game day experience, just about every facet of college football........ESPECIALLY at the time Saban was at Michigan State (1995-1999) and Les was at oSu (2001-2005).

I'm no doom and gloomer, but Bo has tenfold the resources at his disposal than did either Miles or Saban, but yet the best talent we can get at QB is a Taylor Martinez? I think Taylor played much better than usual on Saturday, but it needs to be kept in perspective. Northwestern's defense is trash. We're Nebraska, one of the best programs in college football history and we can't recruit a QB that plays on a high level each and every Saturday? I could probably think of about 60-70 FBS QBs that are better than Taylor. This team will never win a championship as long as Taylor is slinging it, IMO.

How did Martinez lose the game for us? Should he also be playing on the defense as well? That is where I saw some major issues. I hate to say it, but the fumble that Rex had absolutely killed us. I'm not sure how we would have still won with those 60-70 other QBs when our receivers do not make the plays they need to make.

At no point in my post did I claim that Taylor lost the game for us. Compared to how he normally plays, I thought he did well. I just think that it needs to be kept in perspective....Northwestern has the 84th ranked passing defense. Clearly our defense is to be faulted for the loss on Saturday, giving up 28, including an extremely long score to seal the victory in a crucial moment of the game. The only thing that I am trying to illustrate with my post is the I am frustrated that the best QB product we can put on the field is an inconsistent player that has worse mechanics than most Jr. High QBs. I can't really say that another QB would have one us the game, but I wouldn't have minded watching us play that game with Russell Wilson, Case Keenum, RGIII, Kellen Moore, Andrew Luck, Brandon Weeden, EJ Manuel, Darron Thomas, Keith Price, Landry Jones, Tajh Boyd, Matt Barkley, Geno Smith, Nick Foles, Nathan Scheelhaase (still frustrates me that we didn't land him), Seth Doege, GJ Kinnie, Brock Osweiler, Tyler Wilson, Tanner Price, Zach Collaros, James Franklin, Kirk Cousins, Tommy Rees, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr, Logan Thomas or Denard Robinson.

 

[Blaze1up]

In BO we trust

 

[Enhance]

Like it has been pointed out, Nebraska is head and shoulders ahead of both Michigan State and Oklahoma State in terms of tradition, fan support, facilities, game day experience, just about every facet of college football........ESPECIALLY at the time Saban was at Michigan State (1995-1999) and Les was at oSu (2001-2005).

I'm no doom and gloomer, but Bo has tenfold the resources at his disposal than did either Miles or Saban, but yet the best talent we can get at QB is a Taylor Martinez? I think Taylor played much better than usual on Saturday, but it needs to be kept in perspective. Northwestern's defense is trash. We're Nebraska, one of the best programs in college football history and we can't recruit a QB that plays on a high level each and every Saturday? I could probably think of about 60-70 FBS QBs that are better than Taylor. This team will never win a championship as long as Taylor is slinging it, IMO.

A couple of things.

First, I'm somewhat misunderstanding your post. Are you talking about when both of those coaches were at their former universities? If so, why the comparison about resources and Martinez? It makes it sound like you're comparing their current coaching jobs, which are better than Nebraska's position, but at the same time you're comparing their old ones? Perhaps I need more clarification to understand what you're saying.

Regardless, I want to mention something else. Martinez isn't the world's greatest quarterback, but we've had an interesting set of circumstances around here. Cody Green didn't pan out, partially because of mistakes by the coaching staff, Martinez is ahead of Carnes by an experience and age stand point, Starling left for baseball, etc. etc. We've got a brand new guy coaching the offense, and he has yet to recruit his specific guys in cohesion with Bo. I hate to say it, but we need more time.

 

[Redblack&blue]

For all of you whackos calling for Bo's head, let's compare Bo to several other coaches after four years. Bo likely will end this year at 10-3. As such, here are the records of Bo v. other coaches after four years:

Bo - 39-15

Saban - 25-22-1

Miles - 28-21

Callahan - 27 - 22

I hope that the Bo naysayers will just shut their mouths and let this man do his job.

According to this, it looks like Bo currently has 2 more wins than TO did in 4 years, 5 more losses and no ties (TO had 3). Since OT didn't exist, you could venture that at least one of those ties would have been a loss.

So really, he's not that far off of TO. Not that I really think the two eras can be compared. They can't. But the Bo haters do need to pipe down.

 

[quitou]

Umm... sorry, but maybe I'm missing something here. I don't remember there being a time when NE recruited really well, as in top 10 well. Someone please help me out if I"m wrong.

Starting from 2011 down, here's the Rivals rankings.

17, 28, 30, 13, 20, 5, 27, 42, 40...

That one top ten class was in 2005, during Callahan's era. Back before the days of the internet I know that recruitment and rankings weren't that easily obtainable, but I'm pretty sure back in the day Nebraska was more well known for taking the mediocre and turning them into studs. That was due to a strength training system that's since been caught up by everyone else. Personally I don't think NE ever had top 10 recruiting classes; they just beat or cheat the system... something that doesn't work anymore.

Really, this has been talked about forever... the top guys don't come to Nebraska because other than football... you can't offer them anything else. In the middle of nowhere, the weather sucks... geographically NE is handicapped, and that will never change. Stop thinking that someone can come in and recruit better than USC or Florida, you're suffering from a very grand delusion.

 

[hskerprid]

Well, lets just all hope that when Osborne retires that there isn't another "house cleaning". Unless of course there needs to be one.

 

[Enhance]

I agree with most of what you said there, quitou. I think it would take only an excellent recruiter to bring in the best of the best recruits every year. I'm not sure if there's a recruiter out there who could do it without cheating the system or handing out benefits.

As far as the recruiting rankings go, I think Osborne's best class was somewhere between '96 and '98. Other than that, he told some classmates and I during my freshman year at UNL that he consistently ranked around 25th in the nation during his tenure.

 

[Nebula]

Frank got fired because a lot of people overreacted. Those people include Nebraska fans by the thousands. People have got to stop thinking we are going to go undefeated every year or we are going to ruin this program and run everything good about it into the dirt. Frank's firing was a mistake.....let's not make the same mistake twice with Bo.

Solich's firing was not a mistake.

+1

I hate to even post this, because it's rehashing a tired argument, and I'm reiterating myself as many posters on this board have already heard me say this.

Frank Solich is not an upper tier head coach. He IS an upper tier Nebraska man, in terms of what he gave this program as a player and as a long time assistant for teams that achieved lofty degrees of success. He is the perfect example of a guy who was an incredibly valuable asset as a lieutenant but not as a program leader. And I've written this before, but I guess it bears repeating as I read through this thread: If Frank is so highly regarded in coaching circles, why has he been confined to the purgatory that is the Ohio Bobcats? He has never been considered for any head job that has been vacated since his departure from Nebraska. And I'm not talking USC or Florida or Ohio State. I'm talking about Big East teams, lower level Pac-12 jobs. There have literally been dozens of head coaching jobs that have opened up since he has been at Ohio that would have represented a step up from where he is now. I mean hell, Turner Gill went from Buffalo to Kansas, and he had a lot less coaching experience when that move was made. I don't remember hearing Solich's name being bandied about for that vacancy, either.

I don't want to pile on Frank. He's a good man, and any Nebraska fan worth his\her salt knows what he meant to this program. But he had to go. I'm going to do my best never to comment on this again. We're talking ancient history here. And for the record, Bo Pelini is a higher caliber coach, by a pretty good margin. No disrespect to Frank. It's just a reality.

 

[The Maudfather]

Like it has been pointed out, Nebraska is head and shoulders ahead of both Michigan State and Oklahoma State in terms of tradition, fan support, facilities, game day experience, just about every facet of college football........ESPECIALLY at the time Saban was at Michigan State (1995-1999) and Les was at oSu (2001-2005).

I'm no doom and gloomer, but Bo has tenfold the resources at his disposal than did either Miles or Saban, but yet the best talent we can get at QB is a Taylor Martinez? I think Taylor played much better than usual on Saturday, but it needs to be kept in perspective. Northwestern's defense is trash. We're Nebraska, one of the best programs in college football history and we can't recruit a QB that plays on a high level each and every Saturday? I could probably think of about 60-70 FBS QBs that are better than Taylor. This team will never win a championship as long as Taylor is slinging it, IMO.

A couple of things.

First, I'm somewhat misunderstanding your post. Are you talking about when both of those coaches were at their former universities? If so, why the comparison about resources and Martinez? It makes it sound like you're comparing their current coaching jobs, which are better than Nebraska's position, but at the same time you're comparing their old ones? Perhaps I need more clarification to understand what you're saying.

Regardless, I want to mention something else. Martinez isn't the world's greatest quarterback, but we've had an interesting set of circumstances around here. Cody Green didn't pan out, partially because of mistakes by the coaching staff, Martinez is ahead of Carnes by an experience and age stand point, Starling left for baseball, etc. etc. We've got a brand new guy coaching the offense, and he has yet to recruit his specific guys in cohesion with Bo. I hate to say it, but we need more time.

I am referring to when both Saban and Miles were at their first head coaching gigs, Michigan State and Oklahoma state. The point that I was trying to make is that I don't think comparing the first 4 years of Bo Pelini, Nick Saban and Les Miles doesn't really prove anything.

As far as the second part of your post, I completely agree. It's a bad situation. I am just expressing my frustration that we don't have better talent at the QB position. I sincerely hope that Beck gets his guy. When I look at the last 4 years of QB recruiting, I am a little disappointed at the sort of luck we have had.

 

[Enhance]

That or Solich is genuinely happy finishing out his career at Ohio. I don't know which is right but I tend to lead towards your opinion, Nebula.

 

[Enhance]

I am referring to when both Saban and Miles were at their first head coaching gigs, Michigan State and Oklahoma state. The point that I was trying to make is that I don't think comparing the first 4 years of Bo Pelini, Nick Saban and Les Miles doesn't really prove anything.

As far as the second part of your post, I completely agree. It's a bad situation. I am just expressing my frustration that we don't have better talent at the QB position. I sincerely hope that Beck gets his guy. When I look at the last 4 years of QB recruiting, I am a little disappointed at the sort of luck we have had.

Quarterback and offensive line have just been crazy around here the last several years. Odd transfers, players quitting, behavior issues, etc. It's frustrating without question. I, similar to you, hope things pan out better than they have. It's just really tough for me to be too critical right now because we have a new OC who, in my humble opinion, has looked better in year one than Watson did in his three years as OC. The Northwestern and Wisconsin games were hiccups, but I've seen a lot more consistency from this group than in year's past.

Now that I understand your first part, I somewhat agree but also disagree with what you're saying. OSU and MSU are not the caliber of Nebraska, however Bo did take over a group of guys who were not his own and had been part of one of the worst Husker teams in history. I think all three had somewhat similar albeit different hurdles to overcome in their first four years as coaches. That said, I can see why it's a little unfair to be comparing all three.

 

[The Maudfather]

I am referring to when both Saban and Miles were at their first head coaching gigs, Michigan State and Oklahoma state. The point that I was trying to make is that I don't think comparing the first 4 years of Bo Pelini, Nick Saban and Les Miles doesn't really proves anything.

As far as the second part of your post, I completely agree. It's a bad situation. I am just expressing my frustration that we don't have better talent at the QB position. I sincerely hope that Beck gets his guy. When I look at the last 4 years of QB recruiting, I am a little disappointed at the sort of luck we have had.

Quarterback and offensive line have just been crazy around here the last several years. Odd transfers, players quitting, behavior issues, etc. It's frustrating without question. I, similar to you, hope things pan out better than they have. It's just really tough for me to be too critical right now because we have a new OC who, in my humble opinion, has looked better in year one than Watson did in his three years as OC. The Northwestern and Wisconsin games were hiccups, but I've seen a lot more consistency from this group than in year's past.

Now that I understand your first part, I somewhat agree but also disagree with what you're saying. OSU and MSU are not the caliber of Nebraska, however Bo did take over a group of guys who were not his own and had been part of one of the worst Husker teams in history. I think all three had somewhat similar albeit different hurdles to overcome in their first four years as coaches. That said, I can see why it's a little unfair to be comparing all three.

Just realized I had a double-negative in my post :facepalm: . I agree that it is tough to be too critical with the sort of luck that we have had and this being the first year of the Beck regime. When I look over our QBs of the last 4 recruiting classes, I am so disappointed. We took:

2008- Kody Spano

2009- Taylor Martinez (as an athlete that many felt would project as a safety or WR on the collegiate level) and Cody Green

2010- Brion Carnes

2011- Jamal Turner (I wonder if the staff always thought that he would play WR) and Bubba Starling (took a huge gamble here and it didn't work out...we knew what we were getting into recruiting this kid)

In the future classes, I would like to see us go after 2 QBs per class, but wonder if that will happen.

 

[Skull&Bones]

Love Bo but your point don't mean sheet. Bo can win games we all know that. The question mark is losing to a down Texas team, Oklahoma in championship game after a comfortable lead, washington in bowl...etc

Bo can win no question but so can saban and miles. Out of these 3 coaches who is the most inconsistent? That is my concern.

Not a lot of games where this team fires on all cylinders. For the most part either our offense plays like sh#t and defense plays lights out. Or the D doesn't show up and the offense rolls. Inconsistency falls back on fundamentals, fundamentals fall back on coaching. Believe it or not I am a Bo-liever....will get there sooner or later.

 

[Enhance]

Skull&Bones, Miles and Saban are also more experienced head coaches, who moved from average schools to schools with premiere division one talent. I think if Pelini had that kind of talent, Nebraska would be a much better program and would be able to avoid losses like last Saturday's purely on talent and skill alone.

Unfortunately, Nebraska is not in a position to take anyone on their schedule lightly.

 

[schuhbdoo]

I am referring to when both Saban and Miles were at their first head coaching gigs, Michigan State and Oklahoma state. The point that I was trying to make is that I don't think comparing the first 4 years of Bo Pelini, Nick Saban and Les Miles doesn't really proves anything.

As far as the second part of your post, I completely agree. It's a bad situation. I am just expressing my frustration that we don't have better talent at the QB position. I sincerely hope that Beck gets his guy. When I look at the last 4 years of QB recruiting, I am a little disappointed at the sort of luck we have had.

Quarterback and offensive line have just been crazy around here the last several years. Odd transfers, players quitting, behavior issues, etc. It's frustrating without question. I, similar to you, hope things pan out better than they have. It's just really tough for me to be too critical right now because we have a new OC who, in my humble opinion, has looked better in year one than Watson did in his three years as OC. The Northwestern and Wisconsin games were hiccups, but I've seen a lot more consistency from this group than in year's past.

Now that I understand your first part, I somewhat agree but also disagree with what you're saying. OSU and MSU are not the caliber of Nebraska, however Bo did take over a group of guys who were not his own and had been part of one of the worst Husker teams in history. I think all three had somewhat similar albeit different hurdles to overcome in their first four years as coaches. That said, I can see why it's a little unfair to be comparing all three.

Just realized I had a double-negative in my post :facepalm: . I agree that it is tough to be too critical with the sort of luck that we have had and this being the first year of the Beck regime. When I look over our QBs of the last 4 recruiting classes, I am so disappointed. We took:

2008- Kody Spano

2009- Taylor Martinez (as an athlete that many felt would project as a safety or WR on the collegiate level) and Cody Green

2010- Brion Carnes

2011- Jamal Turner (I wonder if the staff always thought that he would play WR) and Bubba Starling (took a huge gamble here and it didn't work out...we knew what we were getting into recruiting this kid)

In the future classes, I would like to see us go after 2 QBs per class, but wonder if that will happen.