Carnes Starter?

[GMoose]

The only thing that bothers me about Taylor is his passing. I couldn't care less about whether he pleases the fans or gives a good interview (or even speaks to the media at all, for that matter).

The Oklahoma State game was great to watch and I'm glad Taylor had an amazing game. But you have to look at the bigger picture and see that he isn't a FBS passer and yesterday certainly didn't change my mind on that. Regardless of who our OC is or what system they're running, we're gonna need to have a competent passing attack at times (against solid defenses) if we want Big 10 titles and BCS bowls and such.

Thank you for saying what I've been trying to say so clearly and eloquently. +1

I'm GMoose and I approve this post.

 

[knapplc]

I'm GMoose, too.

Errr.... I mean, I approve of that post, too.

 

[robsker]

There are people who will not get behind Taylor Martinez, no matter what.

If T.M., at any point, is holding a crystal football above his head, every red-blooded Nebraskan will be behind him, or I'll eat my hat.

Feel free to replace "T.M." with "Bo" as applicable.

Tmart taking us to a NC would be the hater's biggest dilemma. They hate the kid with a huge passion but they love NCs even more. Much more. To their full credit it wouldn't take long before they jumped on the bandwagon. Same scenario with Bo. NU wins the NC and nobody is going to give a rat's a$$ how un-pc he is.

Yeah, I'd eat my hat if wrong about that too.

First off Nebraska wont be going to the NC while Taylor is here. Its much harder to go undefeated now with scholarship limit rule. Plus with our schedule the next 2 years. Along with our shaky OLine, QB, and WR play, a NC appearance is a pipe dream at best. Call me a negative nancy or whatever, but this team has found ways to lose close games and blowing games they shouldve won. Until those parts of the team are taken care of, we can only dream of the Rose Bowl.

Under the last seven years of fluffball you're right. However....

We're just an "average" offense away from being to play with anybody and just a "good" (not great) offense away from being an annual top 5 team. Bo has his own staff now and the Clownahan experiment is fully purged. The pipe dream very well may be a lot closer than you think.

I agree with you on the part with the part of being just a "good" offense to compete with anybody. Until the team cleans up the sloppiness and inconsistent play, we are a 9-3 team at best.

i think we are close to being an annual top 5 team, i mean look at the awesome recruiting job bo has done recently, so its obvious he has an eye for talent and bringing in good players, and i also think he has an eye for coaching talent and he finally has his guys in place for the most part and that this program is going to continue its climb back to greatness

We have no idea if NU has done an awesome recruiting job recently or not. We'll only know 4 years from now when we assess how good the recruits really were. And... if you are going to appeal to recruiting rankings, and use that as testimony for how well we recruited.... then, by those same recruiting rankings, we have not had a top 12 class in the Pelini years. So... how does that add up to perennial top 5?

So... I'd think what you mean is that we, as a fan base, are excited about our recruits and we project our desires onto these young guys and "imagine" that they will take us to the promised land of top 5 perennial finishes. But, at this point, we are simply projecting our desires... we have no concrete, defensible position to assert that are recruiting is any better than the rankings would suggest. We are not a top 10 recruiting program... at least based on the rankings (which, really, is all we have to go on).

I do agree that Bo does seem to develop players well --- on defense. There is, however, no evidence that this is true for offensive players though.

NU is getting better... but we are a long way from a perennial top 5 team. We are, I think, a perennial top 20 team. And... we may be hedging toward a top 15 team. Maybe.

My analysis is by no means a negative one. NU is getting better and we are a competitive Top 20 team. It is just that we have nothing in view that would suggest a top 5 team this next year. Too many holes --- questions at QB, OL, WR... penalties and turnovers. And, team preparedness (we often show up flat, unmotivated)? That has been a problem. Defense is golden. Special teams... good (I think?). Offense.... ah, no.

 

[Hunter94]

There are people who will not get behind Taylor Martinez, no matter what.

If T.M., at any point, is holding a crystal football above his head, every red-blooded Nebraskan will be behind him, or I'll eat my hat.

Feel free to replace "T.M." with "Bo" as applicable.

Tmart taking us to a NC would be the hater's biggest dilemma. They hate the kid with a huge passion but they love NCs even more. Much more. To their full credit it wouldn't take long before they jumped on the bandwagon. Same scenario with Bo. NU wins the NC and nobody is going to give a rat's a$$ how un-pc he is.

Yeah, I'd eat my hat if wrong about that too.

First off Nebraska wont be going to the NC while Taylor is here. Its much harder to go undefeated now with scholarship limit rule. Plus with our schedule the next 2 years. Along with our shaky OLine, QB, and WR play, a NC appearance is a pipe dream at best. Call me a negative nancy or whatever, but this team has found ways to lose close games and blowing games they shouldve won. Until those parts of the team are taken care of, we can only dream of the Rose Bowl.

Under the last seven years of fluffball you're right. However....

We're just an "average" offense away from being to play with anybody and just a "good" (not great) offense away from being an annual top 5 team. Bo has his own staff now and the Clownahan experiment is fully purged. The pipe dream very well may be a lot closer than you think.

I agree with you on the part with the part of being just a "good" offense to compete with anybody. Until the team cleans up the sloppiness and inconsistent play, we are a 9-3 team at best.

i think we are close to being an annual top 5 team, i mean look at the awesome recruiting job bo has done recently, so its obvious he has an eye for talent and bringing in good players, and i also think he has an eye for coaching talent and he finally has his guys in place for the most part and that this program is going to continue its climb back to greatness

We have no idea if NU has done an awesome recruiting job recently or not. We'll only know 4 years from now when we assess how good the recruits really were. And... if you are going to appeal to recruiting rankings, and use that as testimony for how well we recruited.... then, by those same recruiting rankings, we have not had a top 12 class in the Pelini years. So... how does that add up to perennial top 5?

So... I'd think what you mean is that we, as a fan base, are excited about our recruits and we project our desires onto these young guys and "imagine" that they will take us to the promised land of top 5 perennial finishes. But, at this point, we are simply projecting our desires... we have no concrete, defensible position to assert that are recruiting is any better than the rankings would suggest. We are not a top 10 recruiting program... at least based on the rankings (which, really, is all we have to go on).

I do agree that Bo does seem to develop players well --- on defense. There is, however, no evidence that this is true for offensive players though.

NU is getting better... but we are a long way from a perennial top 5 team. We are, I think, a perennial top 20 team. And... we may be hedging toward a top 15 team. Maybe.

My analysis is by no means a negative one. NU is getting better and we are a competitive Top 20 team. It is just that we have nothing in view that would suggest a top 5 team this next year. Too many holes --- questions at QB, OL, WR... penalties and turnovers. And, team preparedness (we often show up flat, unmotivated)? That has been a problem. Defense is golden. Special teams... good (I think?). Offense.... ah, no.

spot on robsker....nothing wrong with a reality check. :thumbs

 

[bshirt]

Good post, robsker. Very similar to HuskerScott's. There no arguing how pathetic almost "everything" on offense has been for years.

I just think it's not just hype to project our new qb, wr & OC coaches making a substantial improvement offensively. I'm sure you would agree that coaching is big variable and obviously they wouldn't have to be sensational to make a big difference.

Take another swig....it's good for ya. :koolaid2:

 

[BigWillie]

I don't buy for one second that one scrimmage is what allowed Martinez to be named starter. I might have, if I was completely cynical about our coaching staff and didn't then see Martinez run for a 49 yard touchdown on his first carry, become a freshman all-american, have the best freshman QB season in Nebraska history, and lead Nebraska to its first victory over a top 10 team in about a decade. Furthermore, he looked better than any of our other QBs did in game situations for the entire time he was healthy.

If Brion wins the job, then great. But here's the difference between you and me - if Brion wins the job, I'm not going to crap on him for the rest of his career just because I liked the other guy. I'll trust the coaches' decision, I'll trust that Brion earned it, and I'll then wait to see him show why he was named the starter in an actual game. JUST like how I treated the decision to start Taylor last year.

Last year, I thought Lee would be the starter. When Martinez was named the starter, I was surprised, but I didn't have such a man-crush on Zac Lee that I held a grudge against Martinez for all time. I watched him play, and it became painfully obvious why he was named starter. He was a playmaker, unlike Lee or Green.

If Carnes gets named the starter, good for him. It's possible that it will happen, but I'll wait until I see Carnes in an actual game to start judging where he's at relative to Martinez.

Yeah, just like you don't buy the endless stories about Taylor being a horrid teammate and the team genuinely disliking him. Nope, I just picked Taylor out randomly, all the way back when he recruitment started, and decided then I would not like him. Taylor did nothing on his visit, did nothing last August in leaving the team, did nothing during the aTm game, did nothing after the aTm game .. nope, just all fabricated stories by Huskers fans to make Husker players look bad.

You want the real difference between you and myself? I live in reality. I live in a reality where not everything, nor everyone associated with the Husker program is genuinely great or full of sunshine and dandelions. I'm in a place where I will call a spade a spade and not allow myself to just talk about the good things in this program just so people are happy. I've NEVER pulled a punch on a person, and I've never allowed the general opinion to sway my own opinion.

And really, that is what makes so many people 'call me out' on things.

About Zac ..

Did I have a 'man crush' on Lee? Well, his eyes were pretty dreamy.

Do I think he was a solid college QB? Yes.

Do I think he was the best QB we had because he would limit boneheaded mistakes while giving us a legit passing threat? Yes.

Do I think he wasn't given a fair shake because he was asked to play with a busted elbow and shoulder, all the while fans expected him to play so well? Yes.

Does that mean I have a 'man-crush' on him? Obviously!

But like I said, my feelings on Taylor go back a ways. I've never liked the kid going back to before he was even officially a Husker. Even then, I called him out as a horrid passer and having questionable character. And guess what? He's a horrid passer with his character questioned by many fans, and Dirk Chatelain. My feelings on Lee had absolutely zero to do with my feelings on Taylor.

All of that is irregardless though, especially my feelings on Taylor's attitude.

My real point ITT was simple - earn your job. If Brion continues to outplay Taylor, you really think it is a good message to send to OUR team that a player who has outplayed someone else will not get the job? The 'hard nosed' Bo Pelini will allow a player to coast into his job and not earn it? That is the message we will send our players?

Point blank - Taylor has ALOT of flaws as a player. Work on them, get better. And if Taylor is progressing on his flaws, then this isn't even a debate. I've publicly admitted I ate crow on Taylor after the OSU game. If he can show some of that same ability consistently, I'll GLADLY do it again. But if Taylor still shows a one-dimensional ability, then I fully want to go with the QB who gives us the ability to have a running AND passing threat so our offense can really open up.

 

[RedDenver]

I'm out of +1's, so here's a +1 post for you, BigWillie.

 

[bshirt]

Nice post Big Willie but I don't see one shred of proof in it. Throwing sarcasm at those that would like some confirmation hardly makes your claims real.

Kudos to owning up to some of Tmart's great games last year. No biggie...we're "all" wrong as often as not. That's why there is forums. chuckleshuffle

GBR!!

 

[Enhance]

Good post Big Willie. FYI, irregardless is not a word .

Anywho, I don't care whose name is on the jersey or what number they have, as long as they are best player at that position. I believe this coaching staff proved last year that they will take the player they think is best. If they didn't, Lee would have started the 2010 season.

Brion looked great - Taylor didn't. That happens. I still don't think there is any reason to anoint either of these guys as a starter. Carnes is going to push Green and Martinez, and they better expect that he could even beat them.

That said, I'm struggling with seeing anybody but Martinez start the 2011 season. The coaches said all spring that Martinez looked good and the offense fits him perfectly - an offense we saw nothing of in the spring game. For example, the no-huddle is supposed to be huge with this team and they huddled the entire game.

Nothing is going to be decided until fall camp and that's a fact. We'll just have to wait and see. But like I said - my gut feeling tells me Carnes will not go any higher than the #2 spot to start the season.

 

[Hercules]

I don't go around assuming that everyone or anyone associated with the Husker program is full of sunshine or dandelions. That's just as naive as taking every insider message board poster at his word.

I don't look at Taylor Martinez as a character model. I also don't look at Rex Burkhead as a character model. Rex Burkhead is not someone anyone should admire that much. You know why? He hasn't done anything. He's a decent football player who hasn't even finished school yet. That's not who our kids should be looking up to. There's nothing wrong with Rex Burkhead, but he's a 20 year old kid who has barely done anything with his life so far. Just because he's a good, hard-working football player doesn't make him a great role model.

I'm not pitching Taylor Martinez as a role model, and I have no problem with anybody who criticizes his on-field performance (as knapplc routinely does without calling his "character" into question). I'm not pitching anyone on our team as a role model. However, I don't think it takes much guts to go onto a message board to dump on some guy behind his back while hiding behind anonymity. The difference between you and me isn't "reality," it's common decency.

 

[Hercules]

Brion looked great - Taylor didn't.

THIS, I totally agree with right now. I didn't see the game, have only seen the highlights, but from everything I've read and heard, Carnes looked better in the spring game the other day.

HOWEVER, based on what I've read from the coaches, it doesn't sound like they think that there's any meaning in that. It's also a spring game, with players divvied up in weird ways, and it's impossible to get a read on anything. Zach Taylor contributed at IB. Is he going to be a big contributor in the fall? Probably not.

If Brion takes over the job from Taylor, fantastic. We'll have a freshman all-american as our backup, which would say something about the new starter. However, I'll wait to see Carnes in some real action before I start buying into the notion that he's the best QB on the team.

 

[blasted_imposter]

they did not show the actual offense that will be on the field this fall, which is what TM is better than anyone else at running.

period. end of story.

 

[Saunders]

I don't go around assuming that everyone or anyone associated with the Husker program is full of sunshine or dandelions. That's just as naive as taking every insider message board poster at his word.

I don't look at Taylor Martinez as a character model. I also don't look at Rex Burkhead as a character model. Rex Burkhead is not someone anyone should admire that much. You know why? He hasn't done anything. He's a decent football player who hasn't even finished school yet. That's not who our kids should be looking up to. There's nothing wrong with Rex Burkhead, but he's a 20 year old kid who has barely done anything with his life so far. Just because he's a good, hard-working football player doesn't make him a great role model.

I'm not pitching Taylor Martinez as a role model, and I have no problem with anybody who criticizes his on-field performance (as knapplc routinely does without calling his "character" into question). I'm not pitching anyone on our team as a role model. However, I don't think it takes much guts to go onto a message board to dump on some guy behind his back while hiding behind anonymity. The difference between you and me isn't "reality," it's common decency.

I agree with everything you said. I'm going to add what I posted in another thread.

"The difference is, attacking someone's play on the field based on visible and calculable evidence is one thing. Attacking someone's character based on message board rumors and e-penis bragging is completely different, and wrong. To say his play on the field needs work, or that he played a crappy game is perfectly fine. To accuse someone of being a whiny crybaby selfish team killer (I've heard all these) based on innuendo and conjecture is idiotic. We, as husker fans, are supposed to be better than this.

"Greatest fans" my a$$.... "

 

[bshirt]

I don't go around assuming that everyone or anyone associated with the Husker program is full of sunshine or dandelions. That's just as naive as taking every insider message board poster at his word.

I don't look at Taylor Martinez as a character model. I also don't look at Rex Burkhead as a character model. Rex Burkhead is not someone anyone should admire that much. You know why? He hasn't done anything. He's a decent football player who hasn't even finished school yet. That's not who our kids should be looking up to. There's nothing wrong with Rex Burkhead, but he's a 20 year old kid who has barely done anything with his life so far. Just because he's a good, hard-working football player doesn't make him a great role model.

I'm not pitching Taylor Martinez as a role model, and I have no problem with anybody who criticizes his on-field performance (as knapplc routinely does without calling his "character" into question). I'm not pitching anyone on our team as a role model. However, I don't think it takes much guts to go onto a message board to dump on some guy behind his back while hiding behind anonymity. The difference between you and me isn't "reality," it's common decency.

I agree with everything you said. I'm going to add what I posted in another thread.

"The difference is, attacking someone's play on the field based on visible and calculable evidence is one thing. Attacking someone's character based on message board rumors and e-penis bragging is completely different, and wrong. To say his play on the field needs work, or that he played a crappy game is perfectly fine. To accuse someone of being a whiny crybaby selfish team killer (I've heard all these) based on innuendo and conjecture is idiotic. We, as husker fans, are supposed to be better than this.

"Greatest fans" my a$$.... "

"Greatest fans" my a$$...." says it all.

Sure it's perfectly ok to diss someone's on the field play but the "greatest fans" go far, far, far beyond that on a daily basis. Like a pack of hyenas they rip to shreds our freshman qb's integrity, honor, motivation, maturity, dedication......heck, "anything" they can think of every damn day for the last six months and they're still never satisfied.

No proof? So what? Any rumor from anywhere is just fine. The more vicious the better.

I honestly wouldn't blame Tmart one iota if he stays in California past this summer. Any human being has limits on how much of "the greatest fans" they can hack.

 

[knapplc]

I think it's important to note that several of the people routinely cracking on Martinez' character don't live near enough to attend games on a regular basis. The mood is quite different inside the stadium. Martinez got a huge ovation when he took the field for the Spring Game.