Carnes Starter?

[GMoose]

Before we get into who threw the one step drop pass better, who do we think is the better passer? From our very limited point of view I'd say Carnes has the better arm.

 

[knapplc]

Before we get into who threw the one step drop pass better, who do we think is the better passer? From our very limited point of view I'd say Carnes has the better arm.

If we're basing it off the Spring Game, RK3 has the better arm, hands down.

 

[Lyons in the Sea of Red.]

Before we get into who threw the one step drop pass better, who do we think is the better passer? From our very limited point of view I'd say Carnes has the better arm.

If we're basing it off the Spring Game, RK3 has the better arm, hands down.

Are you looking to be nitpicky? How much of a chance do you see of him starting? This is about martinez and carnes.

 

[Hunter94]

wow, the wather in Lincoln must be crappy today......... :cheers

 

[carlfense]

I know there isn't a lot of weight for stats of a single scrimmage, but I just think that this is funny:

Presumptive starter, Martinez, Taylor 4-13-1, 52 yards passing (-1 net rushing yard)

Presumptive #2, Green, Cody 4-11-0, 63 yards passing (-6 net rushing yards)

Presumptive #3 (or 4), Kellogg III, Ron 11-19-0, 124 yards passing (-12 net rushing yards)

Presumptive #4 (or 3), Carnes, Brion 11-15-0, 173 yards passing (40 net rushing yards)

All stats can be found here.

If I'm not mistaken, they had a lot of the "back-up" players in during the second and fourth quarters, when Carnes predominantly played. Most of the better defenders for both squads played in the first and third quarters.

That's possible. I didn't get to watch the game, I had to listen to it online like all the Big Ten foes trying to get an edge on Nebraska. I thought I heard a few familiar names called on the defensive side of the ball when Carnes was in, though... I guess I wasn't under the impression that they were cycling starters out all at once.

That was my impression also. Plus, wasnt everybody bragging on much depth we will have on defense this year. That other than guys like Crick,David and Dennard their isnt much drop off between the 1s and 2s.

I don't know that there were less starters in against Carnes. I have a bad habit of not watching the defense during the Spring Game, so I can't say for sure, but I think Carnes saw several 1's out there. He looked good, you can't deny that.

McKewon said that Carnes faced mostly 3s and 4s.

I think too much is being invested into what defense was on the field. Watch Brion, full roll out on two seperate occasions and hits the guy in the numbers. The pass to Jamal? Beautiful. I dont want to say I dont have faith in Taylor, but i dont think he would have made all of those throws. Another thing, pocket prescence. Taylors sucks, and everyone should know that from last year. Brion has a better feel for his back side. Ex. When he got sacked from Jay Guy, I think Taylor would have probably taken that hit square in spine. While Brion got sacked, he also felt the pressure, something Taylor doesnt do well, and tried to elude, nearly doing so.

That's easier to do when you don't have a defender in your face and under-over coverage on the receiver.

I hope Carnes is as good as everyone believes he is (from 15 throws in a practice, I should add.) I'm going to temper my expectations a bit until he's actually taken a snap in a real game.

 

[huskerscott]

I think too much is being invested into what defense was on the field. Watch Brion, full roll out on two seperate occasions and hits the guy in the numbers. The pass to Jamal? Beautiful. I dont want to say I dont have faith in Taylor, but i dont think he would have made all of those throws. Another thing, pocket prescence. Taylors sucks, and everyone should know that from last year. Brion has a better feel for his back side. Ex. When he got sacked from Jay Guy, I think Taylor would have probably taken that hit square in spine. While Brion got sacked, he also felt the pressure, something Taylor doesnt do well, and tried to elude, nearly doing so.

All evidence to the contrary, as Taylor actually did the exact same thing, hitting Kinnie in stride while rolling to his left, right?

I will give you that one throw. Tell me the last time you saw Taylor hit a reciever as nicely as Carnes was on the move. Lets not even begin to mention how many times Taylor threw into double and triple coverage.

That ONE rollout pass wasnt that pretty either. Its looks from the highlight that once again the pass was behind Kinnie. BK made an outstanding catch.

 

[Lyons in the Sea of Red.]

I think too much is being invested into what defense was on the field. Watch Brion, full roll out on two seperate occasions and hits the guy in the numbers. The pass to Jamal? Beautiful. I dont want to say I dont have faith in Taylor, but i dont think he would have made all of those throws. Another thing, pocket prescence. Taylors sucks, and everyone should know that from last year. Brion has a better feel for his back side. Ex. When he got sacked from Jay Guy, I think Taylor would have probably taken that hit square in spine. While Brion got sacked, he also felt the pressure, something Taylor doesnt do well, and tried to elude, nearly doing so.

All evidence to the contrary, as Taylor actually did the exact same thing, hitting Kinnie in stride while rolling to his left, right?

I will give you that one throw. Tell me the last time you saw Taylor hit a reciever as nicely as Carnes was on the move. Lets not even begin to mention how many times Taylor threw into double and triple coverage.

But Carnes only had one similar throw. And you're ready to say he's a better passer than Martinez after that one throw? C'mon.

No Im not. I like what I saw of Carnes, but have to reserve further judgement until he takes snaps in a game. Passing is more than being able to hit a reciever. Its about being able to make good decisions as well. Martinez has been known for not making great ones, and for the most part I thought he continued that trend yesterday minus the 2 tuck and runs or so. Martinez does get the job done sometimes, but everything about it is very ugly when it comes to passing, which is why I think Carnes is so appealing. He looks like a pure QB.

 

[Enhance]

Brion is just a better QB -plain and simple- I get that Martinez is really fast but he cant throw. Carnes undoubtedly has a better arm and he started all 4 years in a solid HS in Florida. I said Martinez should start initially, but if he gets hurt or doesn't do well he should have a role very similar to Jamal Turner's.

What evidence are we basing this off of? One spring practice that was arguably the most vanilla spring game we've seen around here in years?

I said this last year and I'll say it again - right now we have absolutely no useful evidence to suggest that one quarterback is drastically better than the other. Are we really so quick to forget that we saw Taylor Martinez absolutely destroy Oklahoma State in the passing game last year? I know OSU had a far below average pass defense, but you can't sit there and tell me Carnes' performance in one PRACTICE makes him better than Martinez.

Could Carnes start this year? Absolutely he could. I'm not saying he shouldn't if he makes the most of his opportunities. My point is the most redundant point we hear every year - it was a practice against teams with mixed talent levels. Seems like a pretty poor barometer for judging talent.

Did anyone else notice how many pro sets we did yesterday? I loved it. More pro sets means more pocket throws - not Martinez's forte. I've said it before, I'll say it again, we need a QB who can get the ball out. One dimensional = BAD

Good point, although I'm cautious when diagnosing the sets and plays we saw called yesterday. It's possible that Saturday's scrimmage is completely inconsequential to what we see in September. Just food for thought.

 

[knapplc]

No Im not. I like what I saw of Carnes, but have to reserve further judgement until he takes snaps in a game. Passing is more than being able to hit a reciever. Its about being able to make good decisions as well. Martinez has been known for not making great ones, and for the most part I thought he continued that trend yesterday minus the 2 tuck and runs or so. Martinez does get the job done sometimes, but everything about it is very ugly when it comes to passing, which is why I think Carnes is so appealing. He looks like a pure QB.

You're saying that because Freshman Taylor Martinez made crappy decisions as a Freshman, that Carnes is a more appealing QB? Based off of one Spring Practice?

You, sir, are a god among football prognosticators, if you can make that call based on what you saw yesterday.

Me, I'll say this: Carnes' receivers were more open than Martinez'. Carnes made some nice throws, and looked fundamentally sound, although far from perfect. Taylor still exhibits some of the poor tendencies we saw from him last year, but he was also throwing in vastly different situations, into different coverages, than Martinez. I liked what I saw out of Carnes for a Freshman, but that's as far as I'll go. The jury is still way out on him.

 

[huskerscott]

No Im not. I like what I saw of Carnes, but have to reserve further judgement until he takes snaps in a game. Passing is more than being able to hit a reciever. Its about being able to make good decisions as well. Martinez has been known for not making great ones, and for the most part I thought he continued that trend yesterday minus the 2 tuck and runs or so. Martinez does get the job done sometimes, but everything about it is very ugly when it comes to passing, which is why I think Carnes is so appealing. He looks like a pure QB.

You're saying that because Freshman Taylor Martinez made crappy decisions as a Freshman, that Carnes is a more appealing QB? Based off of one Spring Practice?

You, sir, are a god among football prognosticators, if you can make that call based on what you saw yesterday.

Me, I'll say this: Carnes' receivers were more open than Martinez'. Carnes made some nice throws, and looked fundamentally sound, although far from perfect. Taylor still exhibits some of the poor tendencies we saw from him last year, but he was also throwing in vastly different situations, into different coverages, than Martinez. I liked what I saw out of Carnes for a Freshman, but that's as far as I'll go. The jury is still way out on him.

I think the jury is still out on both of them. Regardless of competition they faced in the spring scrimmage.

 

[Lyons in the Sea of Red.]

No Im not. I like what I saw of Carnes, but have to reserve further judgement until he takes snaps in a game. Passing is more than being able to hit a reciever. Its about being able to make good decisions as well. Martinez has been known for not making great ones, and for the most part I thought he continued that trend yesterday minus the 2 tuck and runs or so. Martinez does get the job done sometimes, but everything about it is very ugly when it comes to passing, which is why I think Carnes is so appealing. He looks like a pure QB.

You're saying that because Freshman Taylor Martinez made crappy decisions as a Freshman, that Carnes is a more appealing QB? Based off of one Spring Practice?

You, sir, are a god among football prognosticators, if you can make that call based on what you saw yesterday.

Me, I'll say this: Carnes' receivers were more open than Martinez'. Carnes made some nice throws, and looked fundamentally sound, although far from perfect. Taylor still exhibits some of the poor tendencies we saw from him last year, but he was also throwing in vastly different situations, into different coverages, than Martinez. I liked what I saw out of Carnes for a Freshman, but that's as far as I'll go. The jury is still way out on him.

Taylor Martinez also made crappy decisions in a sping game as a one year starter against a defense he sees every day in practice. You liked what you saw from Carnes for a freshman? Holy expectations. The kid performed and looked good out there, regardless of year.

As far as the appealing part, I think you may be reading too much into that. What I mean by appealing is his demeanor of a QB. His motion is the cleanest we have seen in a long time, and he looks natural. Which is why alot of people are buzzing. Like I said Taylor can get the job done, but everything about his motion, pocket presence, its ugly, and its difficult for many people to accept getting the job done ugly. If that makes sense.

 

[knapplc]

I think the jury is still out on both of them. Regardless of competition they faced in the spring scrimmage.

Not so much. These two are NOT on equal footing this season. Taylor will enter the season as the undisputed #1 (barring injury) and Carnes will rise no higher than #2. You are kidding yourself if you think Carnes' Spring has put him anywhere near Taylor's level in the eyes of the coaches.

 

[Lyons in the Sea of Red.]

I think the jury is still out on both of them. Regardless of competition they faced in the spring scrimmage.

Not so much. These two are NOT on equal footing this season. Taylor will enter the season as the undisputed #1 (barring injury) and Carnes will rise no higher than #2. You are kidding yourself if you think Carnes' Spring has put him anywhere near Taylor's level in the eyes of the coaches.

You are kidding yourself if you think you are mindreader of the coaches. If I remember correctly Taylor went from 3 to 1 in a matter of weeks last year.

 

[huskerscott]

I think the jury is still out on both of them. Regardless of competition they faced in the spring scrimmage.

Not so much. These two are NOT on equal footing this season. Taylor will enter the season as the undisputed #1 (barring injury) and Carnes will rise no higher than #2. You are kidding yourself if you think Carnes' Spring has put him anywhere near Taylor's level in the eyes of the coaches.

Do I need to remind everyone of where this team was last spring in the QB situation. Let see we got a returning starter at QB. A stud redshirt freshman, a fresh new offense for players to learn. Sounds alot like last year. Pretty much that puts those 2 at equal footing heading into the fall.

Most thought the returning starter last year was gonna start again. Suprise Suprise it didnt happen, it may well happen again this year. Im not saying this bash Taylor. Im saying Carnes has 5 months to learn the playbook to get ready for the fall. He could very well unseat Taylor, it may not happen in the first game, but at some point Taylor may not be the starting QB anymore.

 

[carlfense]

I think the jury is still out on both of them. Regardless of competition they faced in the spring scrimmage.

Not so much. These two are NOT on equal footing this season. Taylor will enter the season as the undisputed #1 (barring injury) and Carnes will rise no higher than #2. You are kidding yourself if you think Carnes' Spring has put him anywhere near Taylor's level in the eyes of the coaches.

You can't be serious knapplc?! Surely 15 throws in a scrimmage against scrubs is a better measuring stick than breakout road wins at Washington, KSU, and Oklahoma State, right??

I think the perception problem is that we've seen Martinez have some really bad games. That offsets the enthusiasm for his great (yes, GREAT) games. We've seen very little from Carnes but the eternal spring optimism makes people think that the single glimpse of practice shows how we will perform on the real stage over the entirety of his career.