Carriker Chronicles - Osborne vs. Saban - Who's the Best?

A

ajt1970

Three-Star Recruit
I just had a listen to Adam's latest.  While I agree on his assessment that Osborne is the best, I feel he missed a very important reason for why Osborne was the best. 

Osborne was his own offensive coordinator and playcaller. For 25 years (plus more as an assistant), he called EVERY offensive play, which meant he studied all the film (both of his opponents gamefilm PLUS his own team's practices....which amounted to 30+ hours a week just on this one task alone of film study)....he  formulated gameplans from this - figured out what plays might work and which ones might not, etc. It's a HUGE task for any OC, but to do it as a head coach....for 25 years.....and to be as successful as he was....this is unheard of (in the past or present) and simply an outrageously incredible accomplishment!

He was an Xs and Os genius head coach, not a figurehead. To me, this BY FAR makes him the best coach of all time. He was an ACTIVE PARTICIPANT in all the games, each and every play dialed in - what's the opponent's defense doing?  what's going to work against this defensive front?  Will 42 countersweep work here or should we go with 38 option?   etc.......He was not just standing on the sidelines watching the game like a spectator in the crowd like so many other head coaches (Bryant, Paterno, etc.)

Name one head coach who did what Osborne did...own OC, wore the headset, called every play...AND did all the other typical figurehead head coach duties (handle the press, recruiting, etc.) AND was as successful as he was.....

Answer: NOONE.  Osborne DID IT ALL!   Nobody did anywhere close to all that Osborne did and accomplished. Not even Saban (who wears the headset but is not his own OC and playcaller).  This one major reason (own OC/playcaller for the entire time he was head coach), amongst all the other reasons Adam stated, makes Osborne the greatest coach in college football....and there is not even a close second.

 
Scott will have 25 years to better Tom.  I hope he does!!    

And to this Tom sustained excellence for 25 years at a location not in the hot recruiting bed of the the south.  Yes, Saban has won 6 NC but I can think of 3 that Tom

should have won - 2 from ref calls - 82 PSU enlarged field and TD pass no call, FSU Orange bowl- 2 many to list.  The 83 NC was his but being a man of integrity he went for 2. 

Not to mention the many other times where he was one play(darn sooner magic) or one game away from the NC. 

 
Bama's dynasty has lasted an entire decade and is the most dominant thing we've ever seen in college football. 

You have to give the edge to Saban, although if Tom existed in playoff years or even BCS years it would likely be a different story. Or, if Tom would have stuck around after '97, it would also likely be a different story. Two of Saban's titles have legitimate asterisks as far as being placed in a position to win them, but there's no doubting that those teams were the best teams in the country in their respective years, at least.

 
If Saban had his run while coaching at Nebraska this wouldn't be up for discussion. I believe Osborne is every bit the coach Saban is, maybe even better, but resumes matter in this discussion. So, it's obviously Saban.

 
Agree with @Landlord in regard to his point about TO in the BCS/Playoff years and how it would likely change things.  Carriker's article came across like I figured it would being a little homerish.  I personally give a slight nod to Saban due to more MNCs.  I fully admit to some recency bias as I don't remember much Nebraska football prior to the 1993 season.

 
I don't think his article was homerish at all.  Carriker usually doesn't mince words.  I'll take TO any day of the week.  Saban wasn't in anyone's discussion until he got to Alabama and had the best of the best recruits on his roster every single year.

 
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suh_fan93 said:
I don't think his article was homerish at all.  Carriker usually doesn't mince words.  I'll take TO any day of the week.  Saban wasn't in anyone's discussion until he got to Alabama and had the best of the best recruits on his roster every single year.
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Alabama sure as hell didn't have the best of the best when he took over.  Recruiting is part of the job, some might say equal to coaching the team during the season.  Successful college coaches in any sport that hear the argument, "well ya, but look at the players he has" to tear down their accomplishments should laugh at those people.

Who do you think brought those players in to play there?  Such a stupid argument.

edit:  However, I think Tom Osborne may be the greatest coach of any kind in any sport because of the way he did it at Nebraska.  Objectively, Saban will be chosen by many and the argument against him is nearly impossible to win at this point.

 
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In the Deed the Glory said:
Alabama sure as hell didn't have the best of the best when he took over.  Recruiting is part of the job, some might say equal to coaching the team during the season.  Successful college coaches in any sport that hear the argument, "well ya, but look at the players he has" to tear down their accomplishments should laugh at those people.

Who do you think brought those players in to play there?  Such a stupid argument.

edit:  However, I think Tom Osborne may be the greatest coach of any kind in any sport because of the way he did it at Nebraska.  Objectively, Saban will be chosen by many and the argument against him is nearly impossible to win at this point.
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I guess the same guy that brought those amazing recruiting classes to Michigan State and LSU?  He had no where near the recruiting classes he did at those two schools as he did at Alabama and well it showed.

 
ajt1970 said:
I just had a listen to Adam's latest.  While I agree on his assessment that Osborne is the best, I feel he missed a very important reason for why Osborne was the best. 

Osborne was his own offensive coordinator and playcaller. For 25 years (plus more as an assistant), he called EVERY offensive play, which meant he studied all the film (both of his opponents gamefilm PLUS his own team's practices....which amounted to 30+ hours a week just on this one task alone of film study)....he  formulated gameplans from this - figured out what plays might work and which ones might not, etc. It's a HUGE task for any OC, but to do it as a head coach....for 25 years.....and to be as successful as he was....this is unheard of (in the past or present) and simply an outrageously incredible accomplishment!

He was an Xs and Os genius head coach, not a figurehead. To me, this BY FAR makes him the best coach of all time. He was an ACTIVE PARTICIPANT in all the games, each and every play dialed in - what's the opponent's defense doing?  what's going to work against this defensive front?  Will 42 countersweep work here or should we go with 38 option?   etc.......He was not just standing on the sidelines watching the game like a spectator in the crowd like so many other head coaches (Bryant, Paterno, etc.)

Name one head coach who did what Osborne did...own OC, wore the headset, called every play...AND did all the other typical figurehead head coach duties (handle the press, recruiting, etc.) AND was as successful as he was.....

Answer: NOONE.  Osborne DID IT ALL!   Nobody did anywhere close to all that Osborne did and accomplished. Not even Saban (who wears the headset but is not his own OC and playcaller).  This one major reason (own OC/playcaller for the entire time he was head coach), amongst all the other reasons Adam stated, makes Osborne the greatest coach in college football....and there is not even a close second.
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And TO drove the bus to away games didn't he?  :D

Just imagine how many more MNCs TO would have won if he had the advantages of Saban - twice MNC when he did not even win his own division!

 
Landlord said:
Bama's dynasty has lasted an entire decade and is the most dominant thing we've ever seen in modern college football. 

You have to give the edge to Saban, although if Tom existed in playoff years or even BCS years it would likely be a different story. Or, if Tom would have stuck around after '97, it would also likely be a different story. Two of Saban's titles have legitimate asterisks as far as being placed in a position to win them, but there's no doubting that those teams were the best teams in the country in their respective years, at least.
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I added the word "modern" to your post.  Bud Wilkenson (?spelling?) when he was the coach of Oklahoma back in the 1950's had a dominant run extremely similar to what Saban has accomplished.

To the point of this thread: Hands down Nick Saban is the best.  (Gawd I just threw up a little.)  Maybe if Tom Osborne had stuck around and coached another 10-15 years the outcome would be different.  

Saban has 6 (?or 7?) national championships.  He has 1 NC from LSU and 5 or 6 from Alabama.  Tom Osborne has 3.  

And let's not forget one other point: Nick Saban, for all the times his teams have played for a national title, he's only lost once to my recollection.  To have an overall record of 6-1 in national championship games is borderline godlike.

 
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