Consider Chi Running

[VA Husker Fan]

I didn't watch the videos, but I get the impression Chi running is running with a forward leaning posture? I ask because I've noticed when I run up slight inclines, I have less pain and discomfort in my knees.

Yes, correct, a forward lean. This doesn't mean your back is arched. Your back should be straight with weight evening proportioned. You are "falling forward" and then your legs catch yourself. In essence, you feet come up behind you. The traditional approach has your feet going out in front of your body and then pulling yourself along. The traditional method causes your weight to be behind your center of gravity and thus the weight of your body and the lack of form cause injuries and pain because of the extra unnecessary pounding the body takes.

As you apply this concept you will see less pain in the knees, hips, lower back and ankles.

Thanks. I started running again a few weeks ago but had to stop because my knees and ankles were killing. I may start back up and try this method and see how it goes

Make sure you have good shoes. As we get older, these are even more important.

And by good shoes that means the right shoes. You need to go to a store that will actually look at how you run, or at least take a look at the wear on a pair of shoes you've run a lot in. Go to Lincoln Running Company rather than d!(k's Sporting Goods, for example. The best cushioning shoe made won't do well for you if you need a support shoe.

 

[BigRedBuster]

I didn't watch the videos, but I get the impression Chi running is running with a forward leaning posture? I ask because I've noticed when I run up slight inclines, I have less pain and discomfort in my knees.

Yes, correct, a forward lean. This doesn't mean your back is arched. Your back should be straight with weight evening proportioned. You are "falling forward" and then your legs catch yourself. In essence, you feet come up behind you. The traditional approach has your feet going out in front of your body and then pulling yourself along. The traditional method causes your weight to be behind your center of gravity and thus the weight of your body and the lack of form cause injuries and pain because of the extra unnecessary pounding the body takes.

As you apply this concept you will see less pain in the knees, hips, lower back and ankles.

Thanks. I started running again a few weeks ago but had to stop because my knees and ankles were killing. I may start back up and try this method and see how it goes

Make sure you have good shoes. As we get older, these are even more important.

And by good shoes that means the right shoes. You need to go to a store that will actually look at how you run, or at least take a look at the wear on a pair of shoes you've run a lot in. Go to Lincoln Running Company rather than d!(k's Sporting Goods, for example. The best cushioning shoe made won't do well for you if you need a support shoe.

Exactly.

 

[4skers89]

I didn't watch the videos, but I get the impression Chi running is running with a forward leaning posture? I ask because I've noticed when I run up slight inclines, I have less pain and discomfort in my knees.

Yes, correct, a forward lean. This doesn't mean your back is arched. Your back should be straight with weight evening proportioned. You are "falling forward" and then your legs catch yourself. In essence, you feet come up behind you. The traditional approach has your feet going out in front of your body and then pulling yourself along. The traditional method causes your weight to be behind your center of gravity and thus the weight of your body and the lack of form cause injuries and pain because of the extra unnecessary pounding the body takes.

As you apply this concept you will see less pain in the knees, hips, lower back and ankles.

Thanks. I started running again a few weeks ago but had to stop because my knees and ankles were killing. I may start back up and try this method and see how it goes

Make sure you have good shoes. As we get older, these are even more important.

And by good shoes that means the right shoes. You need to go to a store that will actually look at how you run, or at least take a look at the wear on a pair of shoes you've run a lot in. Go to Lincoln Running Company rather than d!(k's Sporting Goods, for example. The best cushioning shoe made won't do well for you if you need a support shoe.

Exactly.

The running store I go to calls it a gait analysis. They video you on a treadmill running and then play it back in slow motion. One thing I remember them checking was the pronation http://www.runnersworld.com/tag/pronation. Maybe my old shoes were overly worn but as soon as I put on the new shoes my knees immediately felt better just walking around the store. I went back for a replacement set and she was able to get me the right shoes based on the old ones. They weren't going to do the gait analysis again but I insisted. Confirmed that she got it right. I'll never buy running shoes off the rack again.

 

[NoLongerN]

One thing about this style of running though, is it safe to say you can't run as fast?

Just getting back to this thread. Thought I'd throw out some thoughts toward your post.

I think "fast" is a relative term. Here's why. The problem for most runners is getting to the starting line. There is a natural infatuation with "fast" or "speed" probably more to do with ego or acceptance from others which in my opinion keeps many from ever starting a journey toward fitness and running. If you have watched the video's I think one can safely conclude that if you get down some basic mechanics and begin to operate efficiently that the opportunity to get "fast" can certainly occur.

Let me share two quick stories.

A friend of mine recently started running. I had no idea that he was observing and following my running over the past few years. He got an inkling to get into shape and decided to give up drinking and smoking and he started running. I started following his running and was impressed to see him running a 10K (6.2 miles) at around an 8:20 pace. I noticed that he was running 2-3 times a week and always at pretty fast paces ... at least comparing them to myself (around an 8:45-9:15 pace). A few weeks he had done a 15K (9.3 miles) and then a half marathon (13.1 miles) a few weeks later ... all at around an 8:30 pace. I was more then impressed. Well, Gian had been struggling a bit with minor injuries in his legs and I had noticed he was complaining a bit about needing more time to recover but wanting to run more. He eventually had a nagging injury over a month period and was told by the Doctor to take some time off. One of the things he learned the hard way was that your lungs will develop and sustain your running load much quicker then the legs muscles, tendons and ligaments. Research proves that to be true. Gian admitted to me that he had been trying to reach my pace and achieve my running distances and in the process his body was tearing down. I have been running for about 3.5 years and in the process my legs have accumulated 1500, 2000 and 2000 miles over the past three years. So, when I head out for a 13.1 mile run at an 9:00 pace the reality is that I can run that faster if I like but more then that I'm using that run as a part of the process for my marathon training and my legs have developed to the point to handle that work load. I am just now, almost 4 years later ... working at some getting faster and lowering my marathon time to the 4 hour mark. My opinion is that most runners try to run too fast too quick.

The second story involves an experienced runner named Avi. He has actually run a marathon in 03:24:00 using the run/walk/run method. He has adapted the method so that he runs a mile and then walks 45 seconds and has been more then successful. In the past three years he became a Marathon Maniac (these guys run tons of marathons and there are different levels). His overall goal has been fitness and enjoying running. His wife started running half marathons with him and recently completed a marathon. One of the advantages of this method is the recovery feature that has been proven effective. His goal, much like mine, is to run for the love of running. Pace doesn't really matter to him. He enjoys being out there and he enjoys helping and bringing other people into the sport. Here is a link to one of his marathons he posted on RunKeeper.

http://runkeeper.com/user/Avimitz/activity/61982243

On the far right in the middle you will see his splits. Next to that you can see the words "intervals" and "miles". Here, Avi is using app (ISmoothRun) which he sets up to run a mile and then walk 45 seconds. You can see he is running anywhere from an 8:00-8:45 pace most miles and then walks for 45 seconds usually at a 13:45 pace. The great thing about this method is that Avi essentially runs 25 mile sprints. So, in his training, he uses his training plan to build the number of his one mile sprints.

After my marathon this Sunday I plan on switching completely to this type of running. I am 50 years old and overall I just want a healthy life and to run injury free. Chi Running has changed my running but I think I can actually run faster using this method. My wife used the Run/Walk/Run method to complete her marathon in 05:05:00. She could have run it faster but his goal wasn't time ... just to complete it. I currently use this method on my recovery runs. What is fascinating is to take these walk breaks (we have been running for 5 minutes then walk 30 seconds) and you still end up running as fast as you were doing with no breaks. Maybe it's the fact that you know you were walking so you pick up your pace a bit ... but as you run longer I know my legs are fresher and at the end of a long run if I want to run faster I know I can. The big selling point has been the speedy recovery time from a long run. Love that. FYI, my wife and I have been doing around a 10:00-10:15 pace for my recovery runs which are usually around a 10-11 miler. Here is the run ... http://runkeeper.com/user/HeyBakerMark/activity/516904293

 

[NoLongerN]

Anyone interesting in starting running would do well to go to a running store and get an analysis on their running technique. They will put you on a treadmill and film it. They will be able to tell if you are a heal striker or various problems. I went to a Fleet Feet in Tulsa. These guys were awesome at helping me get into the best running shoes and made a few helpful corrections in my technique. In and around Dallas we have these Luke Lockers that do that same thing.

I highly recommend doing this analysis. I always do them when they are at the running Expo for a half or full marathon and always try on shoes. I have ended up buying my shoes off at Ebay at stellar prices but not before I have already found success with shoes that stores like these have helped me with. I use Asics Gt-2170's and Brooks Adrenaline's.

Enjoy your running.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Well, this style of running doesn't help with nipple chafing. OUCH!!!!

 

[NoLongerN]

Well, this style of running doesn't help with nipple chafing. OUCH!!!!

You should be wearing dri-fit clothing and wearing band-aids for anything over 4-5 miles for sure. I wore cotton shirts for my first year and always had sore nips. Welcome to the club of "Learning on the Fly". Been there ... done that. It may seem weird but you just gotta wear band-aids.

Enjoy this clip and watch to the end ... the last scene is why I'm posting this

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

I'm not as worried about speed as I am starting/finishing this thing. I have a guy at work who is a marathoner and he argued with me last week about the speed part of this style of running. He argues about the sky being blue though so he's pretty opinionated, but I respect what he has to say most of the time. He's not in the same boat as me though with back issues, so I have to be careful about being a heel striker. He also talked about running through shin splints and that just doesn't make sense to me. When I was in the police academy we ran up to 6 miles and my shin splints were so bad after three months I had to tape them every single day and put my legs in a trashcan full of ice and water for half an hour every day just to take some of the pain away. It was terrible, if I start to get those again, there is ZERO way I'll run. I went through the academy in 2005. To this day I have lumps in my shins from those damn shin splints.

 

[NoLongerN]

I'm not as worried about speed as I am starting/finishing this thing. I have a guy at work who is a marathoner and he argued with me last week about the speed part of this style of running. He argues about the sky being blue though so he's pretty opinionated, but I respect what he has to say most of the time. He's not in the same boat as me though with back issues, so I have to be careful about being a heel striker. He also talked about running through shin splints and that just doesn't make sense to me. When I was in the police academy we ran up to 6 miles and my shin splints were so bad after three months I had to tape them every single day and put my legs in a trashcan full of ice and water for half an hour every day just to take some of the pain away. It was terrible, if I start to get those again, there is ZERO way I'll run. I went through the academy in 2005. To this day I have lumps in my shins from those damn shin splints.

I understand this guys argument against this style of running. Chi Running is really nothing more then traits that were taken from the fastest runners on the planet ... Kenyan's. Danny Dreyer is certainly no slow-poke in short or long races. He is considered an ultra-marathoner. Thus, he runs many events of 50-100 miles ... but I get the debate. The funny part in regards to Jeff Galloway is that he is a marathoner himself as well as an Olympian. He won a marathon in 1973 running it in 2:23:02. Not too shabby. What I find humorous is that Jeff comes from a life of running. He has the experience and the knowledge to say what he is saying regarding marathons and his "Run/Walk/Run" method has been in operation for 30 years. I'm not saying any of this to debate him ... just humorous. Jeff's goal has been to get more people into running and doing so injury free. Good for those who have speed, pace or time goals for what they are doing. But I applaud the spirit of those who just want to get moving but have been held back because they have been told by some "elite" type runner that says if you don't run the whole way then you are not a runner.

The friend I reference in another post, Avi Mitzner, signed up for a 50 miler this past month without any training (now do note he does run a lot and a 20 miler once a month) and used the Run/Walk/Run method and completed it in 09:47:00. He applied the same method and basically ran for 30 seconds and then walked 30 seconds. He ended up averaging 11:51 per minute.

Here is the link to the run ... http://runkeeper.com/user/Avimitz/activity/508712568

Personally, I think that is an amazing time and effort. But as you said in your post ... some of us have goals to "start" and "finish" ... some folks think running means you have to do it really fast. Good for them ... I guess.

Good luck in your quest. Keep us updated.

 

[BigRedBuster]

Well, this style of running doesn't help with nipple chafing. OUCH!!!!

You should be wearing dri-fit clothing and wearing band-aids for anything over 4-5 miles for sure. I wore cotton shirts for my first year and always had sore nips. Welcome to the club of "Learning on the Fly". Been there ... done that. It may seem weird but you just gotta wear band-aids.

Enjoy this clip and watch to the end ... the last scene is why I'm posting this

I had actually totally forgot about the issue because for the last several years I have been running nothing more than 2-4 miles. Now, I have started bumping up to 6 miles and....well......I remembered the issue.

 

[VA Husker Fan]

Body glide works well if you don't want to use bandaids, which I never have. So does vaseline, though it can stain your clothes. Don't wear cotton anything--shirts, shorts, sock all should be moisture wicking tech material if you're running very far at all.

The guy who said to run through shin splints is an idiot. Not everyone who is a marathoner should be listened to.

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

I've seen guys that try to run through it and eventually end up with some type of fracture in their lower legs. To me, it comes down to you doing something wrong in your running technique or equipment to cause shin splints. I'm not a big runner, never have been, but I really want to like doing it and being injured from doing it is the quickest way for me to say, "No thanks!"

 

[BigRedBuster]

My daughter runs cross country and distance in track. Every fall in CC she has shin splints. We have a pretty good coach and he never has her run through them. She ices them a couple times every day and she spends most of her time then on a stationary bike keeping her endurance up. She will gradually work back running on soft surfaces.

She always gets them early in the season. If treated correctly, she heals up and has no problem the rest of the year.

 

[NoLongerN]

@knapplc, thought I'd revive this post as something to consider in your running.  I've taught quite a few folks who hated running how to properly run and usually there are form issues that aggrevate the body.  Yes, you need good shoes and I could certainly lead you to some Brooks or Asics that are great shoes ... but I could get you into some good Goodyear tires as well and unless they are balanced and used properly they will wear out and not save you from injury.

All the best.

 

[ZRod]

I tried some the technique mentioned in the first two videos this morning. I ran 2.3 miles, which is the furthest yet (I add about .2 to .3 miles to my distance every run if I feel comfortable). Just like my previous runs my pace quickened some, but I felt like I was using less effort to run. I also wasn't worn out when I finished as I usually am. Some of it is probably my stamina increasing, but I could definitely tell the chi running form requires less effort. It really made me aware of how much wasted motion I have and how tense I can get when running with my old form (even though I conciously try to stay loose). I need to look up how to handle hills, because that just didn't feel right with this form, and I found myself reverting back to old form.

It takes some getting used to, as it uses the running muscles in a different way than what I was use to. It kind of makes you feel like an old man running. You know the form I'm talking about when you see a 60 or 70 year old man running and you're trying to figure out how he still has it in him at that age. But, that's probably the point. They can't afford to waste energy, so their form is more efficient because it has to be.

Thanks for the bump BRN. I'll keep practicing this for sure.