COVID-19 in 2021

VectorVictor said:
Agreed. The "personal choice" crowd had their time in the sun and failed society miserably...not that many of them were shining beacons of societal discourse in the first place.  

Now it's time to go back to rationality and common sense and mandate masks and vaccination for all that physically can. Trev and Scott need to quit being cowards and make it happen. 
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That level of authoritarianism might be justified if it completely kept you from catching it or spreading it, but it doesn't. Until that silver bullet exists you won't be able to know who on the team was/wasn't actually spreading anything. I struggle to find the rationality and common sense in forcing something to happen wouldn't guarantee a result while increasing risk in other areas. But maybe we just differ on that.

 
zeWilbur said:
That level of authoritarianism might be justified if it completely kept you from catching it or spreading it, but it doesn't. Until that silver bullet exists you won't be able to know who on the team was/wasn't actually spreading anything. I struggle to find the rationality and common sense in forcing something to happen wouldn't guarantee a result while increasing risk in other areas. But maybe we just differ on that.
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The results show to all but the willfully ignorant that vaccinations work. I think you struggle with more than common sense and rationality if you can't fathom that. 

 
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VectorVictor said:
The results show to all but the willfully ignorant that vaccinations work. I think you struggle with more than common sense and rationality if you can't fathom that. 
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I never said that vaccines don't work. I pointed out that the current 'vaccine' does not work as we are used to with historical vaccines so we can't treat the expectations the same. If you get a polio vaccine then you 100% don't get polio and are incapable of passing on polio. Not so with covid. If you get a covid vax (picked pfizer for timely relevance but others are in alignment) you are looking at a ~90% resistance for catching and ~85% less likely to have it be a serious case if you do catch it. Both of those are great things and warrant recommending getting the vax. However, the viral shedding (contagiousness) is the same amongst vaxxed and un-vaxxed.  So, my point was that mandating something to get a result MIGHT be warranted if you could guarantee the outcome. At this point you can't guarantee that a fully-vaxxed team couldn't have an outbreak or that any outbreak can only be caused by an un-vaxxed player. Having Frost "stop being a coward" and enforce a mandate with just that information is a tough sell on its own. Combining that with the variety of reasons someone won't/can't get the vax and the case isn't clear.

Link where I pulled the vax numbers from: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/Pfizer-BioNTech.html

 
I went to a few baseball games in Arlington, Tx when masks were required.  Wasn't a big deal, mostly because it was in door stadium.  Now, the ushers would tell people in seats (remind them) to put mask back on.  However, it was ok to not wear it when eating hot dogs, popcorn, nachos, sodas.  

So here's my tip.  Just get several bags of peanuts for the entire game and won't have to worry about mask lol.

Here's my other tip.  Wear a mask, it's ok, enjoy the game, and think of others

 
zeWilbur said:
I never said that vaccines don't work. I pointed out that the current 'vaccine' does not work as we are used to with historical vaccines so we can't treat the expectations the same. If you get a polio vaccine then you 100% don't get polio and are incapable of passing on polio. Not so with covid. If you get a covid vax (picked pfizer for timely relevance but others are in alignment) you are looking at a ~90% resistance for catching and ~85% less likely to have it be a serious case if you do catch it. Both of those are great things and warrant recommending getting the vax. However, the viral shedding (contagiousness) is the same amongst vaxxed and un-vaxxed.  So, my point was that mandating something to get a result MIGHT be warranted if you could guarantee the outcome. At this point you can't guarantee that a fully-vaxxed team couldn't have an outbreak or that any outbreak can only be caused by an un-vaxxed player. Having Frost "stop being a coward" and enforce a mandate with just that information is a tough sell on its own. Combining that with the variety of reasons someone won't/can't get the vax and the case isn't clear.

Link where I pulled the vax numbers from: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/Pfizer-BioNTech.html
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Might want to research a bit more on 'historical vaccines', whatever that is.  Measles vaccination comes with breakthrough infections, as does the annual influenza vaccine.

To your other point, so because you can't GUARANTEE an outcome, there really isn't any reason to employ a strategy?  I shouldn't have to point out how ridiculous this notion is, but I'll try with an example:

A car hitting a child at 20 mph can and has caused injury and death.  Clearly going 20 mph in a school zone does not guarantee a safe outcome.  So why do we have school zones?  Why don't we just drive 60 everywhere?

 
Jason Sitoke said:
Might want to research a bit more on 'historical vaccines', whatever that is.  Measles vaccination comes with breakthrough infections, as does the annual influenza vaccine.

To your other point, so because you can't GUARANTEE an outcome, there really isn't any reason to employ a strategy?  I shouldn't have to point out how ridiculous this notion is, but I'll try with an example:

A car hitting a child at 20 mph can and has caused injury and death.  Clearly going 20 mph in a school zone does not guarantee a safe outcome.  So why do we have school zones?  Why don't we just drive 60 everywhere?
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Yeah, you beat me to showing how asinine, illogical, and factually incorrect zeWilbur's beliefs are in this matter. Not to mention the first Polio vaccinations were not anywhere close to 100% effective, but they sure as hell were a lot better than rolling the dice and hoping your kid didn't end up in an Iron Lung for life. 

The program should be taking any and all steps to mitigate risk of a breakthrough infection--this includes a vaccination mandate for the players and staff/personnel that directly support them. From a business standpoint, one does any and all they can to mitigate risk in an uncertain environment--this is no different. Those 10% that are unvaccinated can easily spread to the team, require hospitalization, and prolong the team's exposure to the virus. 

So Frost and Trev growing a pair is still warranted--the only reason they're not is because they're worried about hurting someone's feelings that's part of the "MUH FREEDUMZ" crowd. It's why Pettit called out why Tulsa had to cancel volleyball and why teams aren't 100% vaccinated--moron parents pushing their stupidity onto their children about vaccination. 

 
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The vaccine works so well that a good friend of mine has been in the hospital for over a week due to covid.   

 
Stumpy1 said:
The vaccine works so well that a good friend of mine has been in the hospital for over a week due to covid.   
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So, because an extremely small number have issues or still contact COVID, nobody should get it?

It works so well that well over 90% of the hospitalizations are people who are NOT vaccinated.

 
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