Husker Richard
Starter
This.
And Hercules, this discussion isn't about the QB play, it's about the coaching decision to bench the QB.
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Decision to Bench Taylor
- Thread starter Husker Richard
- Start date
This.
And Hercules, this discussion isn't about the QB play, it's about the coaching decision to bench the QB.
bshirt
Banned
I thought it was a horrible decision. We should have benched our wrs, not our qb.
HUSKER FREAK
Starter
Yeah that. I missed mjmartins comment and that is exactly my feelings on that as well.
TripleOption
Starter
I agree that benching Martinez was a weird call. Sure, we'd had no success, but some of that was dropped passes. And we didn't even give him a chance to get it together (to the extent that it was even his fault in the first place). The move smacked of desperation. I think it signaled to the team, and to T-Mart, that we don't have a chance. That they'd already lost. Certainly that was the point where I figured it was over.
In fairness though, there was a bit of a spark when they put Lee back in. But losing the threat of the big play seems like a very weird call to me when you've been struggling to find anything all day and need several big plays to pull out a win. Then continuing to look for the zone read with Lee in the game was particularly weird...
How's everyone feeling about Taylor's confidence going into next week's game then? Getting benched twice in two weeks really can't help his development. Are we back to QB controversy? Does anyone really want to go back to the offense Lee ran last year?
In fairness though, there was a bit of a spark when they put Lee back in. But losing the threat of the big play seems like a very weird call to me when you've been struggling to find anything all day and need several big plays to pull out a win. Then continuing to look for the zone read with Lee in the game was particularly weird...
How's everyone feeling about Taylor's confidence going into next week's game then? Getting benched twice in two weeks really can't help his development. Are we back to QB controversy? Does anyone really want to go back to the offense Lee ran last year?
VA Husker Fan
All-Conference
Our offense was going absolutely nowhere with Martinez. Letting him take his lumps in a game like this doesn't make sense to me. Maybe they should've let him do that against SDSU, but not a Texas game that wasn't yet over. True that the drops weren't his fault for the most part though a couple of his passes could've been more on the money. I'm thinking about the early pass across the middle that he rifled behind Paul that was wide open as the best example. Mainly he was making bad reads on the option, and was also tentative and late breaking out of the pocket a few times. Probably Watson should have altered the plan for him when the zone read wasn't working, but putting Lee changed their defense up and opened up some things.
We also don't know his mental state at the time. Maybe he was getting too frustrated and the coaches were worried about more turnovers. And maybe he doesn't have as much of the playbook down as Lee does.
What I don't like is that we barely saw Lee in games this year in favor of Green as the 2nd to come in, but Lee is the one we turn to when a game is on the line?
We also don't know his mental state at the time. Maybe he was getting too frustrated and the coaches were worried about more turnovers. And maybe he doesn't have as much of the playbook down as Lee does.
What I don't like is that we barely saw Lee in games this year in favor of Green as the 2nd to come in, but Lee is the one we turn to when a game is on the line?
The Dude
Heisman Trophy Winner
Horrible decision. They should have just put Taylor in better position to make plays with his legs. How about some roll outs or some bootlegs? How about some option plays? We ran that weird option out of the shotgun with Zac all the time last year. Why not try it with a QB who... ya know.... CAN ACTUALLY RUN?
That zone read got really old after it was obvious to everyone in the stadium (except Shawn Watson) that Texas just wasn't going to fall for it.
If they wanted to bench someone bench Thenarse and/or Paul. Why Taylor? That made no sense at all.
That zone read got really old after it was obvious to everyone in the stadium (except Shawn Watson) that Texas just wasn't going to fall for it.
If they wanted to bench someone bench Thenarse and/or Paul. Why Taylor? That made no sense at all.
zoogs
Assistant Coach
You can point to some Taylor highlights in this game, some good throws or good runs he made, but overall it was glaringly obvious that his command of the offense, in all aspects, was far from complete in comparison to Lee. The announcers frequently pointed out Lee's reads when he was in. You don't see that show up next to Lee's name on the statsheet, or the poor reads where Martinez hands it to Burkhead with a DT on top of him, but it's all part of being a QB. There is no question who was the better quarterback last night. We can still competently throw the Martinez offense out there, and we can probably ride/live with it. And against teams that aren't fast enough or good enough on D, we can really run over teams with it. That doesn't mean it is the best option for this team. But the fact that we are midway through the season, it makes it all a big mess. I don't know which way you go here.
It wasn't a weird call at all. Taylor was getting nothing done and was totally rattled, and we needed to open up our offense to have a hope of making a comeback. We drove down the field and had some real shots there, instead of the 'hoping for some breakthrough QB run that hasn't showed signs of appearing' that we otherwise would have been doing. We were only down a touchdown in the end, and the onside, and the defense not being able to make some critical stops, as well as receivers dropping balls, were all a part of that.
It wasn't a matter of Texas not falling for it, you don't "fall" for the zone read, it isn't a trick play. You read, in our case, the DT, and you make the play accordingly. Taylor misread the DT time and time again, and that killed our offense. Of course, you might think the solution is to start running all sorts of different plays, but how many of those plays are part of Taylor's repertoire? It's what you get with Taylor at QB, as a RFR.
It wasn't a weird call at all. Taylor was getting nothing done and was totally rattled, and we needed to open up our offense to have a hope of making a comeback. We drove down the field and had some real shots there, instead of the 'hoping for some breakthrough QB run that hasn't showed signs of appearing' that we otherwise would have been doing. We were only down a touchdown in the end, and the onside, and the defense not being able to make some critical stops, as well as receivers dropping balls, were all a part of that.
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TripleOption
Starter
I do agree that Lee looked more in control. Noticably more in control. But the coaches decided to go with Martinez this year. Or so we thought. What now? It is, as you suggest, a big mess.
I guess I am scared that they were making the right call. Maybe they knew that Martinez was having a total meltdown. After reading that article about his disposition after being benched, I'm scared it was mental stuff they were reacting to as much as his play to that point...
I guess I am scared that they were making the right call. Maybe they knew that Martinez was having a total meltdown. After reading that article about his disposition after being benched, I'm scared it was mental stuff they were reacting to as much as his play to that point...
I don't think it was a bad decision. Dropped passes aside (that's on the WRs) Taylor wasn't making the right reads and was losing yardage pretty much every time he ran it. As much as he is a home run threat, consistently losing yardage is a drive killer. While Zac may not be a home run threat he was consistently getting 3-4 yards on the zone read - allowing for a better chance at sustaining drives and putting some points on the board. Hitting it out of the park is great, but consistently getting on base will get you further and win you more games.
As far as his confidence being hurt because he was pulled, if that's the case (and not saying it is) then he needs to man up. Life's not fair, you don't always get second chances and if you're not performing, in college football or in a "real" job, you're going to get benched. There's more than one way to "take your lumps" and learn - getting benched and coming back strong the next game is as good a lesson as any he might have learned if Bo had left him on the field.
I assume that like Zac has for most of the season, that's exactly how Martinez will handle it - with a good attitude, hard work in practice to improve and intense and smart play on the field. If instead of turning it into a positive and learning from it he wants to sulk about it, I'd rather have Lee or Green on the field. College football is just as much about attitude as it is talent, the Husker's very own walk-on program has shown that to be true.
As far as his confidence being hurt because he was pulled, if that's the case (and not saying it is) then he needs to man up. Life's not fair, you don't always get second chances and if you're not performing, in college football or in a "real" job, you're going to get benched. There's more than one way to "take your lumps" and learn - getting benched and coming back strong the next game is as good a lesson as any he might have learned if Bo had left him on the field.
I assume that like Zac has for most of the season, that's exactly how Martinez will handle it - with a good attitude, hard work in practice to improve and intense and smart play on the field. If instead of turning it into a positive and learning from it he wants to sulk about it, I'd rather have Lee or Green on the field. College football is just as much about attitude as it is talent, the Husker's very own walk-on program has shown that to be true.
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Huskertrout
Walk-on
I hope that quickiemart (I refuse to call him T-Magic) watched how Lee handed the ball off. I think that quickiemart could be more effective if he would hand the ball off more. I think the first few games this year, every team was not focusing on him but were focusing more on the RB, which gave him the opprotunity to get in the hole more. My personal opinion is that quickiemart holds on to the ball to much when he should hand off, it is something a redshirt freshman will learn.
Jason Sitoke
All-Conference
Those of you that think Lee looked appreciably better must have been drunker than I was.
BTW, when did Lee get this reputation as being a good passer? It certainly wasn't from anything I saw last year.
Pulling Martinez was idiotic. There was absolutely no reason for it. Perhaps Martinez was making mistakes in the running game, and a couple of his passes were off, but how exactly were we envisioning picking up 3 scores with Zac fing Lee?
How does Lee solve the running game problem? How can Lee put passes into Burkhead's, Paul's hands any better than Martinez had to that point?
And finally, what kind of message does that send your quarterback? If he's your starter, save for an absolute meltdown or injury, he IS your quarterback!
I'm sick and tired of the coaching staff rotating the QBs. It also says something when Watson and Bo say 'the offense doesn't change, no matter which quarterback is in the game'.
What? You've got a kid that can run like the wind, another that is a big, slow, lumbering guy with no touch on his passes, and a third who runs like a scared little girl. They don't sound interchangeable to me, and if you're not gearing your offense for whoever is in the game, then you're a lazy coach, a fool, or both.
BTW, when did Lee get this reputation as being a good passer? It certainly wasn't from anything I saw last year.
Pulling Martinez was idiotic. There was absolutely no reason for it. Perhaps Martinez was making mistakes in the running game, and a couple of his passes were off, but how exactly were we envisioning picking up 3 scores with Zac fing Lee?
How does Lee solve the running game problem? How can Lee put passes into Burkhead's, Paul's hands any better than Martinez had to that point?
And finally, what kind of message does that send your quarterback? If he's your starter, save for an absolute meltdown or injury, he IS your quarterback!
I'm sick and tired of the coaching staff rotating the QBs. It also says something when Watson and Bo say 'the offense doesn't change, no matter which quarterback is in the game'.
What? You've got a kid that can run like the wind, another that is a big, slow, lumbering guy with no touch on his passes, and a third who runs like a scared little girl. They don't sound interchangeable to me, and if you're not gearing your offense for whoever is in the game, then you're a lazy coach, a fool, or both.
zoogs
Assistant Coach
You think all a QB does is run the ball or throw the ball? Martinez was making mistakes in all facets of the game. He was consistently making mistakes with nearly every snap. And he was frazzled out there instead of leading.
It was 2 scores, and if you need to ask 'how exactly we envisioned it', you need to go back and look at those 2 drives, both of which nearly ended in touchdowns.
Don't really care what kind of message it sends, he has to earn the right to be on the field, and with play like that, he earned the right to be hooked.
Zac Lee is not big or slow by any stretch of the imagination. I don't know where this misconception keeps coming from.
Complete and utter coachspeak.
Because Martinez will need a wide open receiver, or else he'll shuffle around into the pocket until he bumps into an OL, destroying the play and trying to make the best of it with a scramble. When he finds his man, he'll throw it behind him when he could be hitting the guy in stride. And as for the running game, Lee solves it by making the right calls on the zone read, the kind that doesn't involve handing the ball to a RB already being tackled by the DT.
These are all things that Taylor could grow to become proficient in, but it isn't going to happen in the middle of the season.
sd'sker
Banned
i am not making any judgments on who should be the starter or whatever, but i did like watching zac play. i like him and he played with heart. he can throw the ball and is a good game manager. zac will always have a special place in my heart because of last years season. it was a fun season to be a fan, and for all of our woes (particularly on offense) they still performed well and played hard.