Did Ingram deserve to win? Heisman vote biased?
- Thread starter HuskerfaninOkieland
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bhamHusker
Special Teams Player
Well, I based my initial comments on some numbers that a co-worker was passing around. On closer inspection, his numbers were the Total Defense (Alabama faced 6 top 40 to Stanford's 2 in this category). You're correct that Stanford faced teams with much better Rushing Defense numbers (5 top 40 to Alabama's 1), but I think there's more to the story than that. Pac-10 competition is going to have slightly better rushing defense statistics because they face fewer rushing attempts per game. Of Stanford and Alabama's 12 games against FBS teams (Alabama's homecoming game was against an FCS team), Stanford's opposition faced an average of 32 fewer rushing attempts PER GAME (420 to 452). Alabama's competition gave up slightly less yards per carry on average (4.1 to 4.3).
I stand by my contention that Alabama faced stiffer competition than Stanford, and, for the most part, Alabama's competition played tougher opponents than Stanford's opponents did. The raw rankings don't always tell the whole story, and sometimes you need to dig a little deeper. After taking a closer look, I have rethought my argument, buddy
, and I'm more confident in my opinion than before.Again, though, I'm not saying that Ingram is so much better than Gerhart. My original point was that Suh should have had it over either of these two, and that Ingram & Gerhart are not that different from each other. I think reasonable arguments can be made for and against either candidate, and in the end it's really a toss up between the two. Aside from Suh, there weren't really any superstars this year, which is why the field was so muddled in the first place.
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Karawithasmile
Special Teams Player
Is Texas claiming responsibility? :lol:
....If McCoy would have led Texas to a more convincing victory over Nebraska, then he would have been a sure bet for the Heisman and the voters wouldn't have had to choose the less qualified candidate :sarcasm :LOLtartar
I don't think it's as much "bias" as it is misguided ideas of what the award means. Ingram racked up a lot of votes because he's "the best player on the best team," but the award is for the best player, period. And of course a lot of voters consider it a "lifetime achievement" award, which is the only thing that explains McCoy finishing where he did and Tebow being a finalist.
rdwoodpecker
Four-Star Recruit
I thought Suh "should win" but I guessed he would get 3rd.
Not a huge problem with Ingram getting the award. It is just "award" staying true to it's "color". Nobody can win unless they are a qb, rb or once in a blue moon a wr.
Look for Ingram to jump to the NFL regardless of how the Natl champ game goes. His stock is not going any higher. He will be a good pro, I think.
He fits the barry sanders, emmitt smith mold.
Wondering if the pros are going to want to add about 30 lbs on SUh if he is to play in the middle?
Not a huge problem with Ingram getting the award. It is just "award" staying true to it's "color". Nobody can win unless they are a qb, rb or once in a blue moon a wr.
Look for Ingram to jump to the NFL regardless of how the Natl champ game goes. His stock is not going any higher. He will be a good pro, I think.
He fits the barry sanders, emmitt smith mold.
Wondering if the pros are going to want to add about 30 lbs on SUh if he is to play in the middle?
Ingram is good, but he's certainly not Barry Sanders. Barry Sanders never got held to 30 yards in a game in college against anyone. Ever.
Suh didn't get his due because he was a lineman on a four loss team. That sucks, but not as much as it sucks to be an incredible player on a team from a non-Big Six conference.
Ever notice how DeAngelo Williams never got much notice despite shredding the record books at Memphis?
This year, Kellen Moore got jobbed worse than anyone. He leads his team to an undefeated season beating Pac 10 champion Oregon, currently ranked #7 in the country. He threw 39 touchdowns and only three interceptions!!! What the hell does he have to do? Someone please tell me how he could have done something differently to AT LEAST get invited to the ceremony.
And don't give me that "the conference is weak" bs because Boise has been trying to play legit teams for years. Hats off to Oregon for at least trying (and failing).
The whole thing is a joke and everyone who knows anything about college football knows that. Also, trust me as a Boston resident, no one in the northeast knows WTH is going on in college football. No one. Not Joes on the street and not sports commentators. So then why are they voting on who is the best player in college football out of 120 teams? I couldn't tell you. At least they don't arbitrarily decide who gets to play in the championship game... oh wait...
Suh didn't get his due because he was a lineman on a four loss team. That sucks, but not as much as it sucks to be an incredible player on a team from a non-Big Six conference.
Ever notice how DeAngelo Williams never got much notice despite shredding the record books at Memphis?
This year, Kellen Moore got jobbed worse than anyone. He leads his team to an undefeated season beating Pac 10 champion Oregon, currently ranked #7 in the country. He threw 39 touchdowns and only three interceptions!!! What the hell does he have to do? Someone please tell me how he could have done something differently to AT LEAST get invited to the ceremony.
And don't give me that "the conference is weak" bs because Boise has been trying to play legit teams for years. Hats off to Oregon for at least trying (and failing).
The whole thing is a joke and everyone who knows anything about college football knows that. Also, trust me as a Boston resident, no one in the northeast knows WTH is going on in college football. No one. Not Joes on the street and not sports commentators. So then why are they voting on who is the best player in college football out of 120 teams? I couldn't tell you. At least they don't arbitrarily decide who gets to play in the championship game... oh wait...
NUance
Assistant Coach
Yep, like woodpecker says. The Heisman was awarded to the best RB/QB on a top BCS team. Just like always. The award for best college football player should go to Suh. But the Heisman is seldom given to the best college football player.
Suh’s revenge for being snubbed will be to wreak havoc on NFL offenses for the next several years. And collect a fatty paycheck for doing so.
Suh’s revenge for being snubbed will be to wreak havoc on NFL offenses for the next several years. And collect a fatty paycheck for doing so.
bhamHusker
Special Teams Player
Ingram is not eligible for the draft this year. He is a true sophomore, and since he didn't redshirt he has not been out of high school long enough to be considered for this year's draft. If he has another solid year in the '10 season, I would fully expect him to go then.rdwoodpecker said:
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For those of you who are interested, here is a break down of season statistics for both Moore and McCoy.
McCoy: 147.5 efficiency rating, 330-468 passing, 12 interceptions, completed 70.5% of his passes, 3512 passing yards, 27 td's
McCoy also had 559 net rushing yards for three rushing TD's.
Moore: 167.3 efficiency rating, 254-392 passing, 3 interceptions, 64.8% of passes completed, 3325 passing yards, 39 td's
Moore ran for 41 net yards for one rushing TD
Analysis: Here is why I think the media voted McCoy higher. (Again, what I believe THEY think, not what I think).
1) McCoy played much tougher competition, putting up more passing yards and completing more of his passes than Moore.
2) McCoy is a dual threat. Rushing for nearly 600 yards made him more of an asset to his team.
3) McCoy is taking his team to a national championship. Moore is going to a BCS bowl, which is great. However, he still didn't face consistent Big 12 competition.
McCoy: 147.5 efficiency rating, 330-468 passing, 12 interceptions, completed 70.5% of his passes, 3512 passing yards, 27 td's
McCoy also had 559 net rushing yards for three rushing TD's.
Moore: 167.3 efficiency rating, 254-392 passing, 3 interceptions, 64.8% of passes completed, 3325 passing yards, 39 td's
Moore ran for 41 net yards for one rushing TD
Analysis: Here is why I think the media voted McCoy higher. (Again, what I believe THEY think, not what I think).
1) McCoy played much tougher competition, putting up more passing yards and completing more of his passes than Moore.
2) McCoy is a dual threat. Rushing for nearly 600 yards made him more of an asset to his team.
3) McCoy is taking his team to a national championship. Moore is going to a BCS bowl, which is great. However, he still didn't face consistent Big 12 competition.