East-West not necessarily best for NU

[robsker]

On the issue of Wisconsin. I predict that Wisconsin will win the west 60-70% of the time not because I predict that Wisconsin will be that great. I think they will be good (pretty much like they have been). They will not be a national elite program (as in a top 5 actual NC contender... the B1G will not have such a program often... when the they do, it will be OSU). Wisconsin will not seriously even contend for the B1G title as the east champ will win that 80-90% of the time. No... Wisconsin on a good season will finish fringe top 15. Most seasons will teeter on being ranked (ending #20-30 or so). So ... no I am not over-estimating Wisconsin. They will be good... no more. But that will be enough to win the B1G West 60-70% of the time... as no other program in that division... including the Huskers who I and each of you love... no program in that division has the look of being better than Wisconsin. The Huskers should win that division 30-40% of the time... making them nearly as good as Wisconsin..

Bottom line... the B1G West = B12 North.

 

[Count 'Bility]

On the issue of Wisconsin. I predict that Wisconsin will win the west 60-70% of the time not because I predict that Wisconsin will be that great. I think they will be good (pretty much like they have been). They will not be a national elite program (as in a top 5 actual NC contender... the B1G will not have such a program often... when the they do, it will be OSU). Wisconsin will not seriously even contend for the B1G title as the east champ will win that 80-90% of the time. No... Wisconsin on a good season will finish fringe top 15. Most seasons will teeter on being ranked (ending #20-30 or so). So ... no I am not over-estimating Wisconsin. They will be good... no more. But that will be enough to win the B1G West 60-70% of the time... as no other program in that division... including the Huskers who I and each of you love... no program in that division has the look of being better than Wisconsin. The Huskers should win that division 30-40% of the time... making them nearly as good as Wisconsin..

Bottom line... the B1G West = B12 North.

Based on recent history, it's hard for me to disagree with your perception of Wisconsin.

Here's the issue though. They have a new coaching staff. It's already public knowledge that they are overhauling their defense to a totally different scheme. It's is clearly possible they take on a whole 'nother look and wind not being anywhere close to as good as theyve been, or thought they could be.

Hell, it happened to us 10 years ago.

 

[VectorVictor]

Tell me again why some of our fans are freaking out about a divisional alignment that will only last one or two years until Virginia and school(s) to be named come on board to the B1G?

Oh wait. It's the off-season. Nevermind. :moreinteresting

 

[Count 'Bility]

Tell me again why some of our fans are freaking out about a divisional alignment that will only last one or two years until Virginia and school(s) to be named come on board to the B1G?

Oh wait. It's the off-season. Nevermind. :moreinteresting

one or two years? Hell, we'll probably never even see it fully implemented. I expect the landscape to change at a minimum of 2 more instances before the 2015 season.

 

[nebraskafaninwi]

On the issue of Wisconsin. I predict that Wisconsin will win the west 60-70% of the time not because I predict that Wisconsin will be that great. I think they will be good (pretty much like they have been). They will not be a national elite program (as in a top 5 actual NC contender... the B1G will not have such a program often... when the they do, it will be OSU). Wisconsin will not seriously even contend for the B1G title as the east champ will win that 80-90% of the time. No... Wisconsin on a good season will finish fringe top 15. Most seasons will teeter on being ranked (ending #20-30 or so). So ... no I am not over-estimating Wisconsin. They will be good... no more. But that will be enough to win the B1G West 60-70% of the time... as no other program in that division... including the Huskers who I and each of you love... no program in that division has the look of being better than Wisconsin. The Huskers should win that division 30-40% of the time... making them nearly as good as Wisconsin..

Bottom line... the B1G West = B12 North.

No! Wisconsin doesn't recruit at a high enough level to win at that level that often. Going all the way back to 1993 they have had runs at conference championships to only fall back and come back many years later and the cycle repeats. If Bret B. was still at Wisconsin they would return to the conference championship more often, but there are so many changes taking place there right now you can't say they will win the division 70% of the time......their weight training strategies are difference now, their conditioning methods are different now, their defensive schemes are different now, their offensive schemes are changing style, their practice methods are different now. Everything has changed for how that program is run under the new head coach. If it works they will remain competitive, if it doesn't work they will go back into the dip that has been a historical trend since the Alveraz days. After the 2013 season is done, Wisconsin loses close to 1/4 of their entire roster to graduation and will have a lot of inexperience going into the 2014 season.

 

[TGHusker]

People are all worked up again. Oh the offseason. Most of the whining is over the 'names' and perception, not how things actually have been. Over the last few years, OSU and Wisc are the best two in the conference. Mich and Neb would be the next, with NW and MSU after. Each side has 3 of those splits. Penn St will probably be closer to Purdue or Indiana over the next decade, and there is no guarantee they will ever be a power again. So unless we are talking which side is going to sell more merch, it looks pretty close competitively, as teams are trending now.

And remember, when the Big XII formed, all the power teams were in the North, not the South. A series of idiotic coaching hires in the North, and great hires in the South have so much more to do with things that what some want to think.

Good observation. When the B12 was formed, OU was down, OSU was the old OSU, & only A&M had any consistency amount the texas teams (except ut coming out of nowhere to beat us in the 1st cccg). NU, KSU, Co & were the powers of the conference & Mo was somehat competitive.

 

[True2tRA]

The games against Wisconsin in the last two years ahve brought out some legit hatred, so I don't see that rivalry as being "forced". The rivalry with Iowa seems alot more forced, especially the whole naming the game BS and having a trophy.

Agree.

 

[True2tRA]

I honestly think Wisconsin is going to decline very quickly though.

 

[nebraskafaninwi]

I honestly think Wisconsin is going to decline very quickly though.

It will depend on their recruiting for the most part. Their new coaching staff is going about recruiting in a much different way than Barry A. and Brett B. did.

 

[hosker]

Here's what I looked up and posted on B10-forum that I was having a recruiting/talent discussion on.

I was curious, so I went and looked up star-rankings by state over the past few years. I looked up the 2014, 2013, and 2012 seasons for what each B10 state produced, plus New York and Virginia. I used 24/7 Sports because thats the service I subscribe to, so there maybe some variation between Scout or Rivals, but overall I think it gives a fair perspective of what the annual talent level each state produces actually is.... The rankings for 2014 aren't complete, so the numbers are lower for each state, but overall the pattern is consistent.

Also, I counted Indiana for both divisions in the "total" section.

East Division:

Ohio:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 23; 3* - 25

2013: 5* - 0; 4* - 20; 3* - 71

2012: 5* - 1; 4* - 18; 3* - 71

PA:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 10; 3* - 19

2013: 5* - 3; 4* - 10; 3* - 36

2012: 5* - 1; 4* - 12; 3* - 39

MD:

2014: 5* - 1; 4* - 7; 3* - 11

2013: 5* - 1; 4* - 10; 3* - 33

2012: 5* - 2; 4* - 10; 3* - 17

NJ:

2014: 5* - 1; 4* - 10; 3* - 12

2013: 5* - 0; 4* - 15; 3* - 31

2012: 5* - 1; 4* - 9; 3* - 37

MI:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 7; 3* - 4

2013: 5* - 0; 4* - 9; 3* - 25

2012: 5* - 0; 4* - 8; 3* - 30

Indiana:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 3; 3* - 7

2013: 5* - 2; 4* - 4; 3* - 21

2012: 5* - 1; 4* - 2; 3* - 29

VA:

2014: 5* - 3; 4* - 11; 3* - 8

2013: 5* - 2; 4* - 17; 3* - 31

2012: 5* - 1; 4* - 11; 3* - 33

NY:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 5; 3* - 5

2013: 5* - 0; 4* - 15; 3* - 18

2012: 5* - 0; 4* - 5; 3* - 13

West Divison:

Illinois:

2014: 5* - 1; 4* - 10; 3* - 24

2013: 5* - 1; 4* - 9; 3* - 39

2012: 5* - 0; 4* - 8; 3* - 29

Indiana:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 3; 3* - 7

2013: 5* - 2; 4* - 4; 3* - 21

2012: 5* - 1; 4* - 2; 3* - 29

Wis:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 3; 3* - 1

2013: 5* - 0; 4* - 2; 3* - 10

2012: 5* - 0; 4* - 2; 3* - 0

Iowa:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 3; 3* - 0

2013: 5* - 0; 4* - 2; 3* - 10

2012: 5* - 0; 4* - 1; 3* - 8

Minn:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 1; 3* - 1

2013: 5* - 0; 4* - 0; 3* - 5

2012: 5* - 0; 4* - 0; 3* - 9

NE:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 0; 3* - 2

2013: 5* - 0; 4* - 3; 3* - 2

2012: 5* - 0; 4* - 0; 3* - 4

Total:

East (w/out NY & VA): 5* - 14; 4* - 187; 3* - 518

East (w/NY & VA): 5* - 20; 4* - 251; 3* - 626

West: 5* - 5; 4* - 53; 3* - 201

So basically, every state in the east including the secondary markets of NY & VA produce better talent than every state in the west. [EDIT:] Only Illinios is better than what NY and VA produce.... When not counting NY & VA, the East doubles the production of the West's in every category. When counting NY & VA, the East more than triples the West's production.Going off of just these three years, it shows that Michigan would be 2nd to last, or last depending on how you slice it, in the East in producing talent. Ranking behind NY, NJ, MD, and VA. And only ahead of Indiana, but overall, they're at the same level as Indiana.

Yet Indiana, who will be split between the divisions, ranks 2nd in the West. As would Michigan if that state was split.

These numbers do not at all suggest the Western teams being able to compete with the Eastern teams for talent. Or being able to rebound from a poor coaching hire very quickly, if at all.

 

[hosker]

Here is what a Buckeye fan looked up, to see the difference from Scout and Rivals. As well as go back a few more years, although he didn't want to get into 3*'s because it would take much longer to count.

State Rivals------------Scout

-------5*----4*----------5*-----4*

MD

2010--0------9-----------0-------7

2011--1------4-----------1-------6

2012--1------6-----------3-------5

2013--2------7-----------2-------3

NJ

2010--0------3-----------1-------3

2011--0------9-----------1-------9

2012--1------6-----------1-------5

2013--0------9-----------0-------12

OH

2010--3------13-----------2-------13

2011--0------16-----------3-------14

2012--2------18-----------3-------18

2013--0------19-----------2-------23

PA

2010--1------10----------3-------12

2011--0------9-----------2-------8

2012--1------10----------2-------11

2013--2------8-----------3-------8

MI

2010--1------6-----------1-------7

2011--0------6-----------1-------8

2012--0------7-----------0-------10

2013--0------7-----------1-------8

IN

2010--0------5-----------1-------4

2011--0------3-----------1-------2

2012--1------2-----------2-------1

2013--1------6-----------1-------6

NE

2010--0------1-----------0-------1

2011--0------2-----------0-------1

2012--0------0-----------0-------0

2013--0------1-----------0-------2

IL

2010--1------7-----------1-------5

2011--0------8-----------0-------8

2012--0------9-----------2-------4

2013--2------5-----------2-------8

IA

2010--0------1-----------0-------0

2011--0------3-----------0-------0

2012--0------1-----------0-------1

2013--1------1-----------0-------1

MN

2010--0------3-----------1-------2

2011--0------0-----------0-------0

2012--0------1-----------0-------1

2013--0------2-----------0-------1

WI

2010--0------0-----------0-------0

2011--0------2-----------0-------1

2012--0------2-----------0-------2

2013--0------1-----------0-------1

 

[nebraskafaninwi]

Here's what I looked up and posted on B10-forum that I was having a recruiting/talent discussion on.

I was curious, so I went and looked up star-rankings by state over the past few years. I looked up the 2014, 2013, and 2012 seasons for what each B10 state produced, plus New York and Virginia. I used 24/7 Sports because thats the service I subscribe to, so there maybe some variation between Scout or Rivals, but overall I think it gives a fair perspective of what the annual talent level each state produces actually is.... The rankings for 2014 aren't complete, so the numbers are lower for each state, but overall the pattern is consistent.

Also, I counted Indiana for both divisions in the "total" section.

East Division:

Ohio:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 23; 3* - 25

2013: 5* - 0; 4* - 20; 3* - 71

2012: 5* - 1; 4* - 18; 3* - 71

PA:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 10; 3* - 19

2013: 5* - 3; 4* - 10; 3* - 36

2012: 5* - 1; 4* - 12; 3* - 39

MD:

2014: 5* - 1; 4* - 7; 3* - 11

2013: 5* - 1; 4* - 10; 3* - 33

2012: 5* - 2; 4* - 10; 3* - 17

NJ:

2014: 5* - 1; 4* - 10; 3* - 12

2013: 5* - 0; 4* - 15; 3* - 31

2012: 5* - 1; 4* - 9; 3* - 37

MI:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 7; 3* - 4

2013: 5* - 0; 4* - 9; 3* - 25

2012: 5* - 0; 4* - 8; 3* - 30

Indiana:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 3; 3* - 7

2013: 5* - 2; 4* - 4; 3* - 21

2012: 5* - 1; 4* - 2; 3* - 29

VA:

2014: 5* - 3; 4* - 11; 3* - 8

2013: 5* - 2; 4* - 17; 3* - 31

2012: 5* - 1; 4* - 11; 3* - 33

NY:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 5; 3* - 5

2013: 5* - 0; 4* - 15; 3* - 18

2012: 5* - 0; 4* - 5; 3* - 13

West Divison:

Illinois:

2014: 5* - 1; 4* - 10; 3* - 24

2013: 5* - 1; 4* - 9; 3* - 39

2012: 5* - 0; 4* - 8; 3* - 29

Indiana:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 3; 3* - 7

2013: 5* - 2; 4* - 4; 3* - 21

2012: 5* - 1; 4* - 2; 3* - 29

Wis:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 3; 3* - 1

2013: 5* - 0; 4* - 2; 3* - 10

2012: 5* - 0; 4* - 2; 3* - 0

Iowa:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 3; 3* - 0

2013: 5* - 0; 4* - 2; 3* - 10

2012: 5* - 0; 4* - 1; 3* - 8

Minn:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 1; 3* - 1

2013: 5* - 0; 4* - 0; 3* - 5

2012: 5* - 0; 4* - 0; 3* - 9

NE:

2014: 5* - 0; 4* - 0; 3* - 2

2013: 5* - 0; 4* - 3; 3* - 2

2012: 5* - 0; 4* - 0; 3* - 4

Total:

East (w/out NY & VA): 5* - 14; 4* - 187; 3* - 518

East (w/NY & VA): 5* - 20; 4* - 251; 3* - 626

West: 5* - 5; 4* - 53; 3* - 201

So basically, every state in the east including the secondary markets of NY & VA produce better talent than every state in the west. [EDIT:] Only Illinios is better than what NY and VA produce.... When not counting NY & VA, the East doubles the production of the West's in every category. When counting NY & VA, the East more than triples the West's production.Going off of just these three years, it shows that Michigan would be 2nd to last, or last depending on how you slice it, in the East in producing talent. Ranking behind NY, NJ, MD, and VA. And only ahead of Indiana, but overall, they're at the same level as Indiana.

Yet Indiana, who will be split between the divisions, ranks 2nd in the West. As would Michigan if that state was split.

These numbers do not at all suggest the Western teams being able to compete with the Eastern teams for talent. Or being able to rebound from a poor coaching hire very quickly, if at all.

Technically 2014 ratings are incomplete yet so that year shouldn't be used yet, but regardless it has been this way forever in the recruiting world. That is why it is important that we compete well in the 250 mile radius and then the 500 mile radius and plug out some great talent 700+ miles away.

 

[NUance]

The thing is, when the B1G tried to divide teams without strictly adhering to geography, people hated it. Largely because of the goofy Legends/Leaders names, I think. So now the B1G is divvying up the teams based strictly on geography. And people still hate it--because of the disparity in talent. Both strength of teams, and recruiting talent.

I would rather have seen them stick with a Legends/Leaders type division of talent--with efforts made to keep historic rivalries in place. Sure, we'd have to make a few tweaks as Rutgers and MD come into the fold. The only advantage of an east/west division of teams is that we no longer have the goofy names. And who cares about that?

 

[tschu]

All of this could be fixed by just taking MSU to the West and protecting their Michigan rivalry

But no

 

[NUance]

All of this could be fixed by just taking MSU to the West and protecting their Michigan rivalry

But no

Yeah, that would be a pretty balanced division of talent. Too bad Sparty would get its panties all in a bunch over this.

/ I'm assuming Sparty wears panties under that Spartan skirt thing.