Economy

Archy1221 said:
Most of This is just silly.  
 

For one thing, if 18 yards are not bright enough to understand that a loan needs paid back, why on an earth do you think they are smart enough to make life altering gender decisions?   If you disagree, then tell me what age can an adult get approved for a federal loan of any type? 
 

I do agree with you that personal finance should be a required class as a junior or senior and loans should be a chapter to study.  I also believe that prior to taking out loans, a student needs to have 2 jobs in mind for after graduation and the average wage for a 25 yr old in that job should be on the paperwork along with the monthly payment of the accumulated loans for the student to initial.  This stuff really isn’t complicated.   
 

When I took my loans out, they were based on a 10 year repayment term so I’m not sure why everyone else is “stuck” in 20 year debt obligations.  If it now is a thing, then said borrower needs to have in their paperwork to initial that they aren’t out of debt until age 42 so it’s crystal clear.   
 

Im in favor of federal government paying if 1/2 of someone’s federal loans if they enter certain jobs in need, and spend a certain amount of years in that job and jobs are spelled out when loan forgiveness program is created (up to a maximum dollar amount).   It would be crazy in my view to forgive $100,000 in student debt because someone stupidly decided to get teaching degree from Harvard instead of their local state university.   So there needs to be caps.  
Click to expand...
I'd like the government to pursue programs to incentivize students to study critical areas - like nursing, for example. The economy needs tens of thousands of nurses to care for the elderly, and this crisis is only going to get worse. 

Regarding schools, we need to publish earnings, graduation rates, and feedback from former students and make it available to future students. Schools are against this because certain majors are diploma mills that raise revenue, but we absolutely need to point students away from worthless majores and into areas of the economy that need workers.

And honestly, I hope the left learned valuable lessons from the dumb student loan forgiveness debacle. Just a terrible idea from the start.

 
I feel like some people only know their own 18-year-olds. When your kids were 18, did you interact with a broad swath of kids their age, or just their social group? Maybe there's a bit of bias in these assessments?

At 18, most American kids are still very much kids. Heck, many 25-year-olds are still mentally kids. It's one of the reasons they used to prohibit you from renting cars under the age of 25. As recently as the Obama administration there was a law (not sure if it's still enacted) prohibiting people under 21 from getting credit cards.

Brains aren't fully developed until your mid-20s. I interact with people this age and older all the time who make me wonder how they live a day-to-day life.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
JJ Husker said:
Tricked?

Anybody that doesn’t understand what signing loan papers for thousands of dollars actually means, shouldn’t be going to college. If you want to blame that on their primary education failing them fine, fix that problem. But don’t punish the vast numbers who determined they couldn’t afford college, so they didn’t go, by taking their tax dollars and giving it to the financially irresponsible.

We and our kids paid back every dollar we borrowed for college. $0 forgiven. I used up a lot of home equity to achieve it. We and our kids knew exactly what we were signing up for and did what we expected and said we’d do with those signatures. I’m talking within the last 5 years. I’ll die on this hill.

Fix the cost of higher education.

Fix the system that turns out people that don’t understand what a loan is.

Fix the idea that an overpriced degree is mandatory.

Don’t transfer my money to the irresponsible.

And in fairness I will add. We would have accepted any forgiveness offered and were actually hoping to get in on it. Doesn’t make it right or good policy.
Click to expand...
This idea that 18 year olds are so dumb and don't understand what a loan is...is as insane as saying Americans are all lazy and don't want to work and blah blah blah.

If you saw, and you probably have, the amount of time, energy and resources that goes into informing kids about student loans...it is a lot, trust me.

Kids DO not learn about mortgages or taxes or how bad credit cards can be.   That is totally true, I mean, they learn a little about it at school but not a ton. 

But kids going to college are well informed about student loans and how they work.  It is not a complicated process.  

It is not some high pressure tactic like at a car lot. "Okay, do you also want the undercoat rust proofing, it will only add 40 dollars a month to your loan"

 
Archy1221 said:
Most of This is just silly.  
 

For one thing, if 18 yards are not bright enough to understand that a loan needs paid back, why on an earth do you think they are smart enough to make life altering gender decisions?   If you disagree, then tell me what age can an adult get approved for a federal loan of any type? 
 

I do agree with you that personal finance should be a required class as a junior or senior and loans should be a chapter to study.  I also believe that prior to taking out loans, a student needs to have 2 jobs in mind for after graduation and the average wage for a 25 yr old in that job should be on the paperwork along with the monthly payment of the accumulated loans for the student to initial.  This stuff really isn’t complicated.   
 

When I took my loans out, they were based on a 10 year repayment term so I’m not sure why everyone else is “stuck” in 20 year debt obligations.  If it now is a thing, then said borrower needs to have in their paperwork to initial that they aren’t out of debt until age 42 so it’s crystal clear.   
 

Im in favor of federal government paying if 1/2 of someone’s federal loans if they enter certain jobs in need, and spend a certain amount of years in that job and jobs are spelled out when loan forgiveness program is created (up to a maximum dollar amount).   It would be crazy in my view to forgive $100,000 in student debt because someone stupidly decided to get teaching degree from Harvard instead of their local state university.   So there needs to be caps.  
Click to expand...


I knew you were gonna make this about trans people lmao. You really can't get them off your mind. Do you think at 18 you knew more about your own gender or amortization on long term loans? How about you tell me when you have see a psychologist before making sure you are ready to sign up for 10s or 100s of thousands of dollars that has to be paid back. If you want to have a debate on your feelings vs scientific consensus then we can take that to another thread though. 

@teachercd @JJ HuskerThe issue is not that they don't know they need to pay back the money obviously and you know that. The issue is the actual math of everything involved in that when most important variable involved is unknown. Neither the person signing them up for a loan nor the school or anyone else is providing info on what actual post college is going to be. You even admit that's something that should be part of this is plan for a job but it hasn't been so again a hypothetical future plan doesn't help those in debt now. Kids are told the smart decision is to go to college and you are going to get a good job and make money money. Why would they not sign up for that. 

The funny thing is you can see this as an actual issue here and you agree that we can make things better but your conservative brain short circuits when it's possible anyone can abuse a system and you think of the worst case scenario. Like yeah I'm sure lots of people are randomly getting into Harvard. I'd rather see some people get help than none but you would rather think of a scenario where a person benefits unfairly and vote for someone that does nothing for the problem. Id rather incompetent Biden forgive some loans that don't deserve it then trump handing out loans that don't even have to be paid back to his friends and business interests but that's just me.

Put more stipulations on it. That's fine with me.  It's the same issue we have in this country with a lot of issues though. One side kind of tries to help in a feckless way that needs improvement but is technically something even though more than anything it is a show. The other side calls any type of help communism or an infringement on the 2nd amendment and obstructs and overrules while dumbass centrists say well I can't tell the difference between them. 

JJ Husker said:
Tricked?

Anybody that doesn’t understand what signing loan papers for thousands of dollars actually means, shouldn’t be going to college. If you want to blame that on their primary education failing them fine, fix that problem. But don’t punish the vast numbers who determined they couldn’t afford college, so they didn’t go, by taking their tax dollars and giving it to the financially irresponsible.

We and our kids paid back every dollar we borrowed for college. $0 forgiven. I used up a lot of home equity to achieve it. We and our kids knew exactly what we were signing up for and did what we expected and said we’d do with those signatures. I’m talking within the last 5 years. I’ll die on this hill.

Fix the cost of higher education.

Fix the system that turns out people that don’t understand what a loan is.

Fix the idea that an overpriced degree is mandatory.

Don’t transfer my money to the irresponsible.

And in fairness I will add. We would have accepted any forgiveness offered and were actually hoping to get in on it. Doesn’t make it right or good policy.
Click to expand...


Brother this is such a crazy logical leap you have to make here. To act like this is some huge burden on the people that decided college wasn't worth it because of the loan. Yes that long list of people like that who very clearly exist. Once again another one admitting systemic issues and then saying well f#&% all the people that it already happened to lets just fix it going forward. Yes fix the systems but you help the people screwed by it already. 

So your opinion is well we paid ours off so everyone else should have been able to but also I would take the money. You got some strange options to square. How are you gonna die in a hill when you would take the money? The even more hilarious part about this is you paid it off with home equity like that is just some reasonable expectation. I wonder what wages vs home prices were when you bought that house. Yeah just buy a house at the right time and pay off loans it's so easy. I paid off my loan with some hidden pirate treasure I found. Why would I help out these moochers??

 
PasstheDamnBallGuy said:
I knew you were gonna make this about trans people lmao. You really can't get them off your mind. Do you think at 18 you knew more about your own gender or amortization on long term loans? How about you tell me when you have see a psychologist before making sure you are ready to sign up for 10s or 100s of thousands of dollars that has to be paid back. If you want to have a debate on your feelings vs scientific consensus then we can take that to another thread though. 
Click to expand...
LOL.   It was example.   Feel free to calm down  :ahhhhhhhh

And at 18 I knew that I was a dude and I also knew I had to pay back money that I borrowed and juice was gonna be involved in a loan.   
 

PasstheDamnBallGuy said:
@teachercd @JJ HuskerThe issue is not that they don't know they need to pay back the money obviously and you know that. The issue is the actual math of everything involved in that when most important variable involved is unknown. Neither the person signing them up for a loan nor the school or anyone else is providing info on what actual post college is going to be. You even admit that's something that should be part of this is plan for a job but it hasn't been so again a hypothetical future plan doesn't help those in debt now. Kids are told the smart decision is to go to college and you are going to get a good job and make money money. Why would they not sign up for that.
Click to expand...
The variable isn’t really unknown.  We pretty much know what every job is gonna pay.  There are salary structures for them for everyone to see.  Anyone participating in giving out student loans should be required to have the student sign off that the student has been told what a salary range is for entry level jobs in their chosen field.  
 

PasstheDamnBallGuy said:
Put more stipulations on it. That's fine with me.  It's the same issue we have in this country with a lot of issues though. One side kind of tries to help in a feckless way that needs improvement but is technically something even though more than anything it is a show. The other side calls any type of help communism or an infringement on the 2nd amendment and obstructs and overrules while dumbass centrists say well I can't tell the difference between them. 
Click to expand...
🙄.   The other said doesn’t actually call any type of help communist as you know or any type of help an infringement of the 2nd amendment as you know.   At least you got that out of your system though.  
 

 
PasstheDamnBallGuy said:
I knew you were gonna make this about trans people lmao. You really can't get them off your mind. Do you think at 18 you knew more about your own gender or amortization on long term loans? How about you tell me when you have see a psychologist before making sure you are ready to sign up for 10s or 100s of thousands of dollars that has to be paid back. If you want to have a debate on your feelings vs scientific consensus then we can take that to another thread though. 

@teachercd @JJ HuskerThe issue is not that they don't know they need to pay back the money obviously and you know that. The issue is the actual math of everything involved in that when most important variable involved is unknown. Neither the person signing them up for a loan nor the school or anyone else is providing info on what actual post college is going to be. You even admit that's something that should be part of this is plan for a job but it hasn't been so again a hypothetical future plan doesn't help those in debt now. Kids are told the smart decision is to go to college and you are going to get a good job and make money money. Why would they not sign up for that. 

The funny thing is you can see this as an actual issue here and you agree that we can make things better but your conservative brain short circuits when it's possible anyone can abuse a system and you think of the worst case scenario. Like yeah I'm sure lots of people are randomly getting into Harvard. I'd rather see some people get help than none but you would rather think of a scenario where a person benefits unfairly and vote for someone that does nothing for the problem. Id rather incompetent Biden forgive some loans that don't deserve it then trump handing out loans that don't even have to be paid back to his friends and business interests but that's just me.

Put more stipulations on it. That's fine with me.  It's the same issue we have in this country with a lot of issues though. One side kind of tries to help in a feckless way that needs improvement but is technically something even though more than anything it is a show. The other side calls any type of help communism or an infringement on the 2nd amendment and obstructs and overrules while dumbass centrists say well I can't tell the difference between them. 

Brother this is such a crazy logical leap you have to make here. To act like this is some huge burden on the people that decided college wasn't worth it because of the loan. Yes that long list of people like that who very clearly exist. Once again another one admitting systemic issues and then saying well f#&% all the people that it already happened to lets just fix it going forward. Yes fix the systems but you help the people screwed by it already. 

So your opinion is well we paid ours off so everyone else should have been able to but also I would take the money. You got some strange options to square. How are you gonna die in a hill when you would take the money? The even more hilarious part about this is you paid it off with home equity like that is just some reasonable expectation. I wonder what wages vs home prices were when you bought that house. Yeah just buy a house at the right time and pay off loans it's so easy. I paid off my loan with some hidden pirate treasure I found. Why would I help out these moochers??
Click to expand...
Sorry but I don’t have to make any leaps of logic and have nothing to square. Your argument is unconvincing at best.

Person A- Borrows $80k, goes to school, gets a job, starts paying taxes and they and/or their parents pay the loan off, plus interest.

Person B- Wants to go to a big university but determines they can’t afford it and don’t want to borrow money and be in debt for x number of years. Instead they go to a community college or trade school or directly to an employer, get a job and begin paying taxes.

Person C- Borrows a bunch of money, goes to that big university, gets a degree (or maybe not), gets a job and figures out that they shouldn’t have gone so far in debt because paying it all back is really tough and figures dadgumit, why should they have to pay it back because…reasons.

When you make me believe the government, with all 3 persons tax money, forgiving person C’s loan is fair to persons A & B, I’ll start to reconsider.

And yes, if our school loans had been forgiven, I would’ve taken that money in a heartbeat with no compunction. I can count on one finger how many times I’ve got anything from the government besides higher than hell tax bills.

And if you want to really piss me off, go ahead and continue acting like you have some right to share in my hard work, the money I’ve saved through planning and even lucky timing and any home equity I have accrued. Just go ahead and continue down that road.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I know we only like to use "experts" when it is a link from a random guy that probably used Chatgpt to write an article with a catch headline...BUT

I literally just sat in a college meeting yesterday, 200 students.  70 minutes long.  Covered 3 things

1.  Student loans, tuition, FAFSA forms

2.  Letters of recommendation

3.  More student loan information with  scholarship info.

I know I know it is "anecdotal" evidence.  

 
teachercd said:
I know we only like to use "experts" when it is a link from a random guy that probably used Chatgpt to write an article with a catch headline...BUT

I literally just sat in a college meeting yesterday, 200 students.  70 minutes long.  Covered 3 things

1.  Student loans, tuition, FAFSA forms

2.  Letters of recommendation

3.  More student loan information with  scholarship info.

I know I know it is "anecdotal" evidence.  
Click to expand...
Were the students told not to worry about going 6 figures in debt because the ghost of Joe Biden would erase their loans?

 
JJ Husker said:
Were the students told not to worry about going 6 figures in debt because the ghost of Joe Biden would erase their loans?
Click to expand...
I mean, I might have missed some of it BUT I don't remember that coming up.  I also don't remember the promise of how much they will make when they finish college.  

 
Archy1221 said:
I think one of the lesson plans was mandatory @PasstheDamnBallGuy gets to lecture you on your house equity and how you get to use it. 
Click to expand...
I mean I get that, it’s totally reasonable. Since I purchased my home when housing prices were more affordable and have made mortgage payments on 2 different homes for about 30 some years, paying I don’t know how many hundreds of thousands total…..sure sure sure sure, go ahead and help yourself to some of that. Nevermind that the mortgage would already be burned and gone if it weren’t for….wait for it…..paying off student loans.

BTW, my first home loan was at a 10% interest rate. Now if rates go above 3 or 4% people freak the eff out.

 
JJ Husker said:
I mean I get that, it’s totally reasonable. Since I purchased my home when housing prices were more affordable and have made mortgage payments on 2 different homes for about 30 some years, paying I don’t know how many hundreds of thousands total…..sure sure sure sure, go ahead and help yourself to some of that. Nevermind that the mortgage would already be burned and gone if it weren’t for….wait for it…..paying off student loans.

BTW, my first home loan was at a 10% interest rate. Now if rates go above 3 or 4% people freak the eff out.
Click to expand...
Yeah I get all that but basically you were just privileged to be able to work hard, save money, buy a house, pay down that house while it “luckily” appreciates (but some how that house appreciation is also privilege that others don’t get so you should feel bad about it) and then maybe sell that house and get a different home and pay that one down to the point you can use equity (your own equity) to help pay for your very very privileged kids schooling as you also remember that people get to chastise you for doing things the right way because other 18-25 year olds AND…..25-45 year olds going back to school for undergraduate or graduate degrees weren’t intelligent enough to understand that you borrow money and it’s not just pixie dust that magically goes away (at least until Joe came around).  

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top