Editorial: "The Disappearing Act of Husker Football Tradition"
- Thread starter Hammerhead
- Start date
Savage Husker
All-Conference
Coach lays out the options and gives the kid a chance to think about what he wants instead of string him along through fall camp. damned if you do damned if you don't. From her write up, I can see how it's harsh, but faulting the coach for being honest with him isn't a Nebraska Tradition either. Just because you're a walk on and played one season doesn't mean a kid is entitled to a spot/play time without having to continue earning it. Would love to read a finish of the story that the kid gutted it out and proved the coach wrong. I read some NU fans speak about Rudy being one instance at ND where here it's a tradition, well they aren't going to make a movie out of a kid that walks away from a challenge. I think it's time for that orange slice and juice box..,
It'sNotAFakeID
All-American
First of all, what a train wreck of an article. Just...yikes. Second of all, yes, there probably aren't as many All-Americans hiding in North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa, Nebraska, Wyoming, or Kansas as there are All-Americans living in the state of Alabama; and that probably held true in the 90s. So, and I say this as a person rather unfamiliar with Husker tradition, but what would distinguish the walk-on program would be our S&C and coaching. Now we have coaches who are truly experts and who value S&C and just overall fundamentals. Those two emphases will help make our walk-on program great again.
True2tRA
Banned
No. He quoted your exact words. You said "people act like we have a ton of All-Americans hiding in the weeds at Nebraska".
VA Husker fan called it an exaggeration. He's exactly right. Literally, nobody has ever said that.
NU Walk-Ons:
With just 1.8 million people in our state, it just isnt efficient for most universities to spend a bunch of time and money recruiting players here if you arent already close by
It takes time and effort to build up your network of coaches who provide intel, leads and open doors. Every coach has a finite amount of time to invest, he has to invest it where his biggest ROI is
There are much more fertile hunting grounds elsewhere and easier to get to
It also has to do with competition- NU is the elephant in the room, it's an odd case that NU doesnt get a kid it wants IF they get in early and maintain a reasonably good relationship
Schools like Ohio and even Oregon will have a leg up on other outside schools because of the relationships guys like Frank Solich and Scott Frost have developed
Iowa State, K State, Iowa, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, NW Missouri State all have those relationships in place as well
I have 3 friends who coach in Florida and 1 in Texas, the Florida one guy had over 60 different DI coaches come though his office or watch their spring practice this year. He has a very good Bo Pelini story- he likes the guy. 2 of the 3 never saw anyone from NU this year- the other 1, I havent talked to. Coaches can see one of my friends team and travel 10 miles and see another 10 DI kids on the same trip. Very similar for the Texas guy.
Camps- yes the camps do matter, especially if you live in a South Dakota, Wyoming, N Dakota, Nebraska like state where coaches dont visit. THe Nike and Rivals camps arent close by.
Demographics, reality is 57% of the Power Conference players are African American- the state of Nebraska is 4.8% African American: It is what it is, in recruiting it's a numbers game.
http://www.npr.org/2013/07/24/204837926/ncaa-should-bolster-and-reinforce-african-american-players
Look at where DI kids are recruited from- per capita, the top 8:
Louisiana 1.83 1 2.44x Alabama 1.75 2 2.33x Florida 1.69 3 2.25x Georgia 1.62 4 2.16x Hawaii 1.54 5 2.05x District of Columbia 1.43 6 1.90x Mississippi 1.42 7 1.89x Texas 1.41 8 1.88x
Times have changed
Back in the day, NU was light years ahead of everyone else when it came to weight training, speed development and nutrition. Boyd Eppley was a true pioneer, a lot of programs at the time were laughable when it came to weights, they were rubbing 2 sticks together while Boyd was building rocket ships to the moon. In todays information age, the field has leveled tremendously. The gap we had allowing us to develop players significantly better due to weights and nutrition has closed dramatically
Walk ons are great, and I love the walk on legacy. However with Hudl and todays information age, there are fewer and fewer kids who slip through the cracks and walk on at NU. With the click of a button, kids are being evaluated, no need to send film like in the old days where coaches had stacks and stacks of VHS tapes, they never had to time to ever watch and some HS coaches never put the time in to make, send out etc.
NW Missouri State and North Dakota State are real powerhouses now. With the high cost of tuition these days, fewer kids are willing to pass on playing for a National Title at NWMS or NDSU to pay their own way to play for a middle of the road NU team where they may or may not play. We are missing out on some very good football players who could be contributors thanks to the success of those programs.
In todays information age- exposure matters. There used to be 3 channels and NU would often times be one of the few games on. Nebraska kids had exposure to NU and not much more. Today there are games on many channels, everyone gets exposure. I remember 20 and even 10 years ago, every kid in camp would have something with NU on it. Now you will see kids wearing Oregon, TCU, Bama and even Texas stuff- sad but true.
Are the Nebraska kids being recruited less than similar skilled kids in other areas of the country? yes
Are there a lot of Nebraska kids who should be DI kids, but because of our geographic/population density situation they dont get recruited? there are some, but not a lot
Yes, I think NU sometimes tries to get kids on the cheap, to walk on who could be contributors. But Im not a DI coach and I dont know exactly what our coaching staff is looking for at each position or off the field skills- so I could be wrong. Based on that very limited knowledge, I can only judge based on what I see happening on the HS field- I see maybe 1-2 kids a year that I think could play here who didnt get offers. But again I dont have enough info to say that with a lot of confidence. Obviously there are other DI programs out there where these kids are a fit and have contributed, based on the needs/fit at that school.
With just 1.8 million people in our state, it just isnt efficient for most universities to spend a bunch of time and money recruiting players here if you arent already close by
It takes time and effort to build up your network of coaches who provide intel, leads and open doors. Every coach has a finite amount of time to invest, he has to invest it where his biggest ROI is
There are much more fertile hunting grounds elsewhere and easier to get to
It also has to do with competition- NU is the elephant in the room, it's an odd case that NU doesnt get a kid it wants IF they get in early and maintain a reasonably good relationship
Schools like Ohio and even Oregon will have a leg up on other outside schools because of the relationships guys like Frank Solich and Scott Frost have developed
Iowa State, K State, Iowa, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, NW Missouri State all have those relationships in place as well
I have 3 friends who coach in Florida and 1 in Texas, the Florida one guy had over 60 different DI coaches come though his office or watch their spring practice this year. He has a very good Bo Pelini story- he likes the guy. 2 of the 3 never saw anyone from NU this year- the other 1, I havent talked to. Coaches can see one of my friends team and travel 10 miles and see another 10 DI kids on the same trip. Very similar for the Texas guy.
Camps- yes the camps do matter, especially if you live in a South Dakota, Wyoming, N Dakota, Nebraska like state where coaches dont visit. THe Nike and Rivals camps arent close by.
Demographics, reality is 57% of the Power Conference players are African American- the state of Nebraska is 4.8% African American: It is what it is, in recruiting it's a numbers game.
http://www.npr.org/2013/07/24/204837926/ncaa-should-bolster-and-reinforce-african-american-players
Look at where DI kids are recruited from- per capita, the top 8:
Louisiana 1.83 1 2.44x Alabama 1.75 2 2.33x Florida 1.69 3 2.25x Georgia 1.62 4 2.16x Hawaii 1.54 5 2.05x District of Columbia 1.43 6 1.90x Mississippi 1.42 7 1.89x Texas 1.41 8 1.88x
Times have changed
Back in the day, NU was light years ahead of everyone else when it came to weight training, speed development and nutrition. Boyd Eppley was a true pioneer, a lot of programs at the time were laughable when it came to weights, they were rubbing 2 sticks together while Boyd was building rocket ships to the moon. In todays information age, the field has leveled tremendously. The gap we had allowing us to develop players significantly better due to weights and nutrition has closed dramatically
Walk ons are great, and I love the walk on legacy. However with Hudl and todays information age, there are fewer and fewer kids who slip through the cracks and walk on at NU. With the click of a button, kids are being evaluated, no need to send film like in the old days where coaches had stacks and stacks of VHS tapes, they never had to time to ever watch and some HS coaches never put the time in to make, send out etc.
NW Missouri State and North Dakota State are real powerhouses now. With the high cost of tuition these days, fewer kids are willing to pass on playing for a National Title at NWMS or NDSU to pay their own way to play for a middle of the road NU team where they may or may not play. We are missing out on some very good football players who could be contributors thanks to the success of those programs.
In todays information age- exposure matters. There used to be 3 channels and NU would often times be one of the few games on. Nebraska kids had exposure to NU and not much more. Today there are games on many channels, everyone gets exposure. I remember 20 and even 10 years ago, every kid in camp would have something with NU on it. Now you will see kids wearing Oregon, TCU, Bama and even Texas stuff- sad but true.
Are the Nebraska kids being recruited less than similar skilled kids in other areas of the country? yes
Are there a lot of Nebraska kids who should be DI kids, but because of our geographic/population density situation they dont get recruited? there are some, but not a lot
Yes, I think NU sometimes tries to get kids on the cheap, to walk on who could be contributors. But Im not a DI coach and I dont know exactly what our coaching staff is looking for at each position or off the field skills- so I could be wrong. Based on that very limited knowledge, I can only judge based on what I see happening on the HS field- I see maybe 1-2 kids a year that I think could play here who didnt get offers. But again I dont have enough info to say that with a lot of confidence. Obviously there are other DI programs out there where these kids are a fit and have contributed, based on the needs/fit at that school.
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Thanks_Tom RR
All-American
For the sake of literality and semantics, Enhance wrote "people act" not "people said". However, I don't think much will be gained in this conversation by focusing on the minutiae.
At the heart of this debate are the questions, does the walk-on program significantly contributed to the team and what the team/university owe the walk-ons for their participation?
It is clear the walk-ons provide quality depth to special teams and to key positions on the offense and defense. They also provide the same depth in practice to get the starters game-ready. Thus, we do not need All-Americans coming out of Nebraska to make the program a significant advantage.
In kind, the university owes little to the walk-ons in terms of financial investment, and the coaches owe no promise of playing time or stability in the depth chart. Walk-ons should get the opportunity to prove themselves and earn PT and the same commitments (outside of a scholarship) offered to recruited players.
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Hayseed
All-American
Yeah, we had a few huge walk-on success stories, but the main impact was probably that it kept the 730 guys on our sideline from playing for other teams.
(This post includes exaggeration for effect.)
Count 'Bility
Banned
couldnt agree more. For every Mackovicka there were 20 lawrence phillips. You cant win at an elite level with a unit full of walk on caliber players, regardless of what your forsaken tradition is. Ask Frank Solich. Embrace your past. Dont live in it. Nebraskas real best tradition is actually being on the cutting edge in numerous aspects. If we believe that is the case, then we'd be smart enough to quit puttin so much attention on some walk on deal that happened to produce a few athletic anomolys and get overblown into some revolutionary method. Every program has walkons. Every program has a few of those walkons become impact players. Nebraska just happened to have a few more. Big whoop. Play the best players. Win football games. That is all.
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True2tRA
Banned
I think you guys are ignoring the facts by under-valuing the walk on tradition here. It isn't all people hold onto anymore, but it is important and even vital to the Husker tradition. Not just in the blue collar work mentality they bring or the overall appreciaton and respect they have for the opportunity to wear the N, which can be contagious. But these guys have played quite a bit over time and some have become starters or major contributors at their spot. Not just in history, but many of you are saying there's been little effect from the walk-on program recently, but that's simply not the case.
Sam Foltz- starting punter and a damn good one at that
Ryker Fyfe-backup QB for the Huskers just last season
Andy Janovich-starting FB, though limited in duties in the offense, still....starting FB
Brandon Reilly - contributes regularly at WR, expected to have a very solid season
Dylan Utter- contributes on the offensive line and may play this year?
Sam Burtch - if not for being injured last year, would've played often and I expect him to contribute a lot this year
Jack Gangwish- starting DE
That's 7 guys right there who are or were walk-ons coming into this program. Pretty impressive really. When you consider the limited number of guys that actually play or start for a football team, I'd say 7 players being walk ons is a respectable number.
Sam Foltz- starting punter and a damn good one at that
Ryker Fyfe-backup QB for the Huskers just last season
Andy Janovich-starting FB, though limited in duties in the offense, still....starting FB
Brandon Reilly - contributes regularly at WR, expected to have a very solid season
Dylan Utter- contributes on the offensive line and may play this year?
Sam Burtch - if not for being injured last year, would've played often and I expect him to contribute a lot this year
Jack Gangwish- starting DE
That's 7 guys right there who are or were walk-ons coming into this program. Pretty impressive really. When you consider the limited number of guys that actually play or start for a football team, I'd say 7 players being walk ons is a respectable number.
ScottyIce
Banned
Isn't that the problem? That Bo recruited so poorly, he actually had to play 7 guys that weren't even recruited for scholarship at NEB.
Thanks_Tom RR
All-American
No. The Preferred Walk-on Program is an extension of recruiting at Nebraska. Riley said they have something like 150 players during spring practice and expect over 200+ come the fall. Only 85 of those players are on scholarship (well, 88 right now). If 7 of about 120 or so players (about 6%) break into the two deep, that does not speak against the recruiting prowess of the coaches, otherwise, you would have to talk down Tom Osborne's recruiting given the amount of success the Walk-on program had in those days. Rather, it only speaks to the power of the Walk-on program.
If anyone doubts the value of the Walk-on Program, do yourself a favor and watch this 1-hr long documentary from netNebraska. Walk-on: Husker's Edge
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True2tRA
Banned
I don't think Bo has recruited poorly, so no I don't see that as any indictment of is recruiting. Our first few recruiting classes were pretty weak, but honestly I think this team is loaded with talent and has been for a couple years now.
Also, technically, 7 guys broke the two deep from a lot less than a pool of 120 players. Even less than the scholarship 85. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but lets say 32 players contribute during any given game. 11 starters on offense, 11 starters on defense and maybe 10 guys that rotate in at any given position. Well those 7 guys I listed would be players that are included in that 32 (roughly.....I might be wrong it could be more) so you're actually talking about walk-ons making up nearly 22% of this teams active contributors right now.
Also, technically, 7 guys broke the two deep from a lot less than a pool of 120 players. Even less than the scholarship 85. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but lets say 32 players contribute during any given game. 11 starters on offense, 11 starters on defense and maybe 10 guys that rotate in at any given position. Well those 7 guys I listed would be players that are included in that 32 (roughly.....I might be wrong it could be more) so you're actually talking about walk-ons making up nearly 22% of this teams active contributors right now.
If we're going to play this game and criticize "exact words", I said people 'act.' I never said people "say."
And if I really must refine it to "some people act" then fine... "some people act like we have a ton of All-Americans hiding in the weeds at Nebraska."
I still stand by that claim. Just the other day I was talking to a man at a work function who said, and I'm paraphrasing, if we had more Nebraska kids on the roster the team would be better. My statement may have been a bit hyperbolic, but, there are definitely people out there who act as if we have a ton of great talent just sitting in the wings.
We don't need All-American Nebraska kids to make the walk-on program valuable - the program is still valuable. The walk-on program is part of Husker tradition and you'll never hear me say it's a bad thing. And there are great players in Nebraska. But, my point still stands - the walk-on program, in my opinion, is only as successful as the coaching and structure you have in place.
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