Fire Shawn Watson

[holvy83]

im not complaining about running. im complaining about a lack of points. you know, in the games we lose? like when our offensive line suddenly turns french and we cant seem to score on heidi fleiss. stuff like that. tired of watching amazing defensive AND special teams efforts being swept under the rug by complete offensive failure.

So it just doesn't occur to anyone that teams may just be better than NU? Nah its the coaches fault right?

edit: IMO i just think this team is still not quite undefeated material, they have made great strides under Bo, and I am overly excited about the future, but this day in college football it is rare that you can run the table year in and year out, and with the change to the Big might make it tougher, i think teams get better with the consistency of the staff.

So it never occurs to you that there is reason they're always better on one side of the ball? Always the "same" side of the ball? Nah it's just the players fault right?

So all the great players we have on offense then they should be able to execute any play to the fullest that get brought to the huddle right? I am as frustrated as anyone with this offense, but if you want a coaching carousel at NU then call for coaches heads everytime something happens. It worked when we brought in Pelini for the D, but what sort of offensive genius is NU going to get to make it so much better with the talent they have now?

Answer me this, if Martinez did not get hurt and kept his hype as a Heisman candidate and this Offense putting up 30-40 pts a game with him, do we have this discussion?

 

[Hunter94]

the zone read was only going to be good for so long, Texas easily shut it down, 4th game if the season and we were busted. the problem is Watson is so damn predictable, how often do we see him call a pass on first down? yep, hardly every....run, run and pass incomplete....3 and out, OMG, does this guy every get a different though, just once, i would like to see him open the game with a long pass down the middle, just once!

 

[3rd and long]

you know whats really scary? one of my buddies started arguing that the offense has actually gotten worse, more inconsistent, under watson since callahan left. and he was making sense.

Since when did anyone expect the offense to get better with Callahan's departure?

We had good offenses under Callahan. OL technician, masterful with screen passes and always good for some trick play packages within our multiple offense, which was very demanding on the QB. Guy is basically a genius in this regard. The problem was our defense. Everyone was saying we just need a good defense to win championships, and a strong running game and that was it. Well, now we have a running game and a good defense, and we have been winning games, including being dang close to a BCS bowl last year and having a good shot at one this year.

All of a sudden though, that's not enough, people want to ring up flashy eye-candy stats and points, instead of playing smart, conservative, and grinding it out. For example, was the KU game ever in doubt? Not really. 49 rushes for 230 yards (4.7 avg), that's stout running. Against ISU, 52 rushes for 235 yards (4.5 avg). 48 rushes for 205 yards (4.3) against SDSU. As you can see, running it 70% of the time in a game and pounding it on the ground real well on a team might not result in the total yardage and touchdowns fireworks people expect, but it's a certain philosophy to a game and the one that seems to suit Nebraska fans' stylistic preferences most...except they are complaining about it.

I'm not complaining about pounding the ball with the running game, that's what I've been wanting all year. A fullback leading one of our two outstanding RB's. But we seem to get away from that because we are obsessed with the zone read (which I admit at times has been spectacular, because of Martinez)and questionable calls. Third and two in the A&M game after we've marched it down the field with Helu and Burkhead and we drop back pass (and yes I do admit, if it goes for a big play, we're probably all saying what a great call, yes we're all fickle). I would really love to see us get Helu and Burkhead 20 carries each against OU. But our OL really has to step up, and we HAVE to eliminate the procedures and illegal formation penalties, and not burn timeouts because we can't get the play in on time.

 

[kchusker_chris]

So all the great players we have on offense then they should be able to execute any play to the fullest that get brought to the huddle right? I am as frustrated as anyone with this offense, but if you want a coaching carousel at NU then call for coaches heads everytime something happens. It worked when we brought in Pelini for the D, but what sort of offensive genius is NU going to get to make it so much better with the talent they have now?Answer me this, if Martinez did not get hurt and kept his hype as a Heisman candidate and this Offense putting up 30-40 pts a game with him, do we have this discussion?

Probably not, I agree with you...mainly because Watson could make 4-5 idiotic chess moves a game and we'd still come out on top. Now howerver, his inneptness is magnified. Also, I think a lot of the frustration revolves around Watson putting all his eggs in the Martinez basket. A LOT of people explained the ISU game away to the injury which is understandable. But it's been weeks now. This injury didn't just happen. It took him 3 weeks to really go away from the "Martinez" gameplan and implement something more geared towards Cody. Even that was helped by Colorado's piss-poor defense.

The last 2 years almost everything we've done offensively in the spring/fall has been shelved mid-season. It's becoming a regular occurance...so when you think about it a large portion of Watson's offseason and early season offensive implementations are a waste.

I am confident that if we got rid of Watson (which I don't see happen) we'd find a fit for the program. Really they'd only have to be about 20% of Watson to be affective because so much of his effort thoughout the year is shelved once we get into conference play. NU is one of the top 20 or so draws as far as coaching possitions go. We have capable assistants that could be promoted and work more within Bo's philosophy. Plus, we currently have an odd mix of coaches, with a DE coach, a TE coach (who used to be the WR coach for years but since Gilmore was retained didn't fill that position). Bo needs to reshuffle and increase efficiency this offseason regardless. If that means someone goes, fine. If not, fine. But something needs changed.

Sometimes change is all that is needed, it doesn't necessarily have to be a huge step up. It's like when you get a new driver, or set of irons...you always play lights-out for a while. A new face, a few new ideas...I don't think it would hurt anything.

 

[holvy83]

So all the great players we have on offense then they should be able to execute any play to the fullest that get brought to the huddle right? I am as frustrated as anyone with this offense, but if you want a coaching carousel at NU then call for coaches heads everytime something happens. It worked when we brought in Pelini for the D, but what sort of offensive genius is NU going to get to make it so much better with the talent they have now?Answer me this, if Martinez did not get hurt and kept his hype as a Heisman candidate and this Offense putting up 30-40 pts a game with him, do we have this discussion?

Probably not, I agree with you...mainly because Watson could make 4-5 idiotic chess moves a game and we'd still come out on top. Now howerver, his inneptness is magnified. Also, I think a lot of the frustration revolves around Watson putting all his eggs in the Martinez basket. A LOT of people explained the ISU game away to the injury which is understandable. But it's been weeks now. This injury didn't just happen. It took him 3 weeks to really go away from the "Martinez" gameplan and implement something more geared towards Cody. Even that was helped by Colorado's piss-poor defense.

The last 2 years almost everything we've done offensively in the spring/fall has been shelved mid-season. It's becoming a regular occurance...so when you think about it a large portion of Watson's offseason and early season offensive implementations are a waste.

I am confident that if we got rid of Watson (which I don't see happen) we'd find a fit for the program. Really they'd only have to be about 20% of Watson to be affective because so much of his effort thoughout the year is shelved once we get into conference play. NU is one of the top 20 or so draws as far as coaching possitions go. We have capable assistants that could be promoted and work more within Bo's philosophy. Plus, we currently have an odd mix of coaches, with a DE coach, a TE coach (who used to be the WR coach for years but since Gilmore was retained didn't fill that position). Bo needs to reshuffle and increase efficiency this offseason regardless. If that means someone goes, fine. If not, fine. But something needs changed.

Sometimes change is all that is needed, it doesn't necessarily have to be a huge step up. It's like when you get a new driver, or set of irons...you always play lights-out for a while. A new face, a few new ideas...I don't think it would hurt anything.

I agree with you, I agree with most, but still one sitting on the fence, my whole take is a little old school, championships are built by consistency, which I know Watson has not been, but since I have no inside to the program, curious as to what the outcome will be if a new OC is brought in and how the players react. If Bo wants the same offensive philosophy then i say give Wats another chance, if not and a big change is made, is the offense ready to take another step back to start their first year in the Big 10? I will be first in line next year if they keep throwing goose eggs, but if the staff stays together and builds on what they continue to have, i think it would make a great first impression on the big 10 on what they can bring to the table. :thumbs

 

[Glendower]

the zone read was only going to be good for so long, Texas easily shut it down, 4th game if the season and we were busted. the problem is Watson is so damn predictable, how often do we see him call a pass on first down? yep, hardly every....run, run and pass incomplete....3 and out, OMG, does this guy every get a different though, just once, i would like to see him open the game with a long pass down the middle, just once!

My mind might be making this worse than it is, but it seems like if he does pass on 1st and it's incomplete, that play is followed by 2 more passes and generally a punt.

And as far as saying that it's not the coach's fault for poor execution-- are you kidding me? Coaches are supposed to develop players, not just turn them out on the field and expect them to perform. Do you think that Suh was as good as he was as a freshman or sophomore when he was in high school? I'm sure he was awesome in high school, but when you're a demi-human and bordering on a different species (homo tacklus?) you only have to try so hard against people who are on a different plane of existence than you are. In my conference in HS there was a guy who just MURDERED people, he was unstoppable on both sides of the ball and made our best players look like foolish children. He walked on at NU and NEVER played. The point is, you can only get so strong when your canalized by how hard the opposition can push back.

It takes work to make even the most talented, dominant HS player into an effective force in college. I think that Watson might know that, but I don't get the sense that he has the team work and practice as hard or as brutally as the D does. The D also has consequence for bad execution (Thenarse, God love 'im, just wouldn't wrap up... now he's on the bench. That's gotta hurt for him, but that seems like the defensive equivalent of a dropped pass or missed block) but the O doesn't really. It just seems like there are very distinct coaching philosophies on either side of the ball, which is normal. When Jason Peter had his show, he'd often talk about how different T.O. and McBride were. This difference in development and emphasis on fundamentals seems vast.

Anyway, point is this-- raw talent can only take you so far, then the coach has to step in and know how to help you transform that raw talent into honed, practiced skill.

 

[Hunter94]

you know whats really scary? one of my buddies started arguing that the offense has actually gotten worse, more inconsistent, under watson since callahan left. and he was making sense.

Since when did anyone expect the offense to get better with Callahan's departure?

We had good offenses under Callahan. OL technician, masterful with screen passes and always good for some trick play packages within our multiple offense, which was very demanding on the QB. Guy is basically a genius in this regard. The problem was our defense. Everyone was saying we just need a good defense to win championships, and a strong running game and that was it. Well, now we have a running game and a good defense, and we have been winning games, including being dang close to a BCS bowl last year and having a good shot at one this year.

All of a sudden though, that's not enough, people want to ring up flashy eye-candy stats and points, instead of playing smart, conservative, and grinding it out. For example, was the KU game ever in doubt? Not really. 49 rushes for 230 yards (4.7 avg), that's stout running. Against ISU, 52 rushes for 235 yards (4.5 avg). 48 rushes for 205 yards (4.3) against SDSU. As you can see, running it 70% of the time in a game and pounding it on the ground real well on a team might not result in the total yardage and touchdowns fireworks people expect, but it's a certain philosophy to a game and the one that seems to suit Nebraska fans' stylistic preferences most...except they are complaining about it.

I'm not complaining about pounding the ball with the running game, that's what I've been wanting all year. A fullback leading one of our two outstanding RB's. But we seem to get away from that because we are obsessed with the zone read (which I admit at times has been spectacular, because of Martinez)and questionable calls. Third and two in the A&M game after we've marched it down the field with Helu and Burkhead and we drop back pass (and yes I do admit, if it goes for a big play, we're probably all saying what a great call, yes we're all fickle). I would really love to see us get Helu and Burkhead 20 carries each against OU. But our OL really has to step up, and we HAVE to eliminate the procedures and illegal formation penalties, and not burn timeouts because we can't get the play in on time.

that is a real concern, getting plays in on offense and defense....a hurry up offense kills substitutions and kills a defense set for the next play. at one time earlier this year i thought our offense was going to run a hurry up sequence or 2, but we fell back to the same, boring or methodical huddle and time consuming march up to the ball.....what the hell happened to varying the tempo? what the hell happened to mixing things up?

 

[kchusker_chris]

Let's forget the past, and even ignore this year...and ask: is Watson the best to lead our offense in the Big10? You see guys like Rich Rod fail miserably trying to implement a new wrinkle into the Big10 offensive identity. Notre Damn (not big10) but similiar outcome. Maybe Watson succeeds in the Pac10, gets by in the Big12, but struggles in the Big10? Things are different up there. Is he the best man to learn the defensive identities and gameplan to exploit the tendencies of 8 new teams next year?

If we started from scratch, with an ENTIRE new offensive staff...just like we have an ENTIRE new conference of foes...would Watson still be the man we'd want leading the O? I don't think he'd be anyone's pick if we were starting from scratch. If that's the case, why keep him? Because he's already here? So what. Because no one can suggest someone better? Until the possition opens we don't know all the possibilities, who knows what could happen.

Personally, I just don't think it would get worse. And if it won't get worse...why not take a slight risk for the chance that it could get a lot better?

 

[3rd and long]

you know whats really scary? one of my buddies started arguing that the offense has actually gotten worse, more inconsistent, under watson since callahan left. and he was making sense.

Since when did anyone expect the offense to get better with Callahan's departure?

We had good offenses under Callahan. OL technician, masterful with screen passes and always good for some trick play packages within our multiple offense, which was very demanding on the QB. Guy is basically a genius in this regard. The problem was our defense. Everyone was saying we just need a good defense to win championships, and a strong running game and that was it. Well, now we have a running game and a good defense, and we have been winning games, including being dang close to a BCS bowl last year and having a good shot at one this year.

All of a sudden though, that's not enough, people want to ring up flashy eye-candy stats and points, instead of playing smart, conservative, and grinding it out. For example, was the KU game ever in doubt? Not really. 49 rushes for 230 yards (4.7 avg), that's stout running. Against ISU, 52 rushes for 235 yards (4.5 avg). 48 rushes for 205 yards (4.3) against SDSU. As you can see, running it 70% of the time in a game and pounding it on the ground real well on a team might not result in the total yardage and touchdowns fireworks people expect, but it's a certain philosophy to a game and the one that seems to suit Nebraska fans' stylistic preferences most...except they are complaining about it.

I'm not complaining about pounding the ball with the running game, that's what I've been wanting all year. A fullback leading one of our two outstanding RB's. But we seem to get away from that because we are obsessed with the zone read (which I admit at times has been spectacular, because of Martinez)and questionable calls. Third and two in the A&M game after we've marched it down the field with Helu and Burkhead and we drop back pass (and yes I do admit, if it goes for a big play, we're probably all saying what a great call, yes we're all fickle). I would really love to see us get Helu and Burkhead 20 carries each against OU. But our OL really has to step up, and we HAVE to eliminate the procedures and illegal formation penalties, and not burn timeouts because we can't get the play in on time.

that is a real concern, getting plays in on offense and defense....a hurry up offense kills substitutions and kills a defense set for the next play. at one time earlier this year i thought our offense was going to run a hurry up sequence or 2, but we fell back to the same, boring or methodical huddle and time consuming march up to the ball.....what the hell happened to varying the tempo? what the hell happened to mixing things up?

To me, that simple sentence really sums up what we need to do. Just try to not be so damn predictable.

 

[RedDenver]

Let's forget the past, and even ignore this year...and ask: is Watson the best to lead our offense in the Big10? You see guys like Rich Rod fail miserably trying to implement a new wrinkle into the Big10 offensive identity.

Rich Rod is having problems with the defense, not the offense. Michigan's national ranking is #11 rushing, #34 passing, and #6 total offense to go with the #23 scoring offense. That's the exact opposite of "fail miserably".

 

[RedDenver]

you know whats really scary? one of my buddies started arguing that the offense has actually gotten worse, more inconsistent, under watson since callahan left. and he was making sense.

Since when did anyone expect the offense to get better with Callahan's departure?

We had good offenses under Callahan. OL technician, masterful with screen passes and always good for some trick play packages within our multiple offense, which was very demanding on the QB. Guy is basically a genius in this regard. The problem was our defense. Everyone was saying we just need a good defense to win championships, and a strong running game and that was it. Well, now we have a running game and a good defense, and we have been winning games, including being dang close to a BCS bowl last year and having a good shot at one this year.

All of a sudden though, that's not enough, people want to ring up flashy eye-candy stats and points, instead of playing smart, conservative, and grinding it out. For example, was the KU game ever in doubt? Not really. 49 rushes for 230 yards (4.7 avg), that's stout running. Against ISU, 52 rushes for 235 yards (4.5 avg). 48 rushes for 205 yards (4.3) against SDSU. As you can see, running it 70% of the time in a game and pounding it on the ground real well on a team might not result in the total yardage and touchdowns fireworks people expect, but it's a certain philosophy to a game and the one that seems to suit Nebraska fans' stylistic preferences most...except they are complaining about it.

I'm not complaining about pounding the ball with the running game, that's what I've been wanting all year. A fullback leading one of our two outstanding RB's. But we seem to get away from that because we are obsessed with the zone read (which I admit at times has been spectacular, because of Martinez)and questionable calls. Third and two in the A&M game after we've marched it down the field with Helu and Burkhead and we drop back pass (and yes I do admit, if it goes for a big play, we're probably all saying what a great call, yes we're all fickle). I would really love to see us get Helu and Burkhead 20 carries each against OU. But our OL really has to step up, and we HAVE to eliminate the procedures and illegal formation penalties, and not burn timeouts because we can't get the play in on time.

that is a real concern, getting plays in on offense and defense....a hurry up offense kills substitutions and kills a defense set for the next play. at one time earlier this year i thought our offense was going to run a hurry up sequence or 2, but we fell back to the same, boring or methodical huddle and time consuming march up to the ball.....what the hell happened to varying the tempo? what the hell happened to mixing things up?

To me, that simple sentence really sums up what we need to do. Just try to not be so damn predictable.

This chain of comments made me laugh. So we want Watson to pound the ball, but not be boring or methodical, and still be unpredictable and mix things up.

 

[Hunter94]

you know whats really scary? one of my buddies started arguing that the offense has actually gotten worse, more inconsistent, under watson since callahan left. and he was making sense.

Since when did anyone expect the offense to get better with Callahan's departure?

We had good offenses under Callahan. OL technician, masterful with screen passes and always good for some trick play packages within our multiple offense, which was very demanding on the QB. Guy is basically a genius in this regard. The problem was our defense. Everyone was saying we just need a good defense to win championships, and a strong running game and that was it. Well, now we have a running game and a good defense, and we have been winning games, including being dang close to a BCS bowl last year and having a good shot at one this year.

All of a sudden though, that's not enough, people want to ring up flashy eye-candy stats and points, instead of playing smart, conservative, and grinding it out. For example, was the KU game ever in doubt? Not really. 49 rushes for 230 yards (4.7 avg), that's stout running. Against ISU, 52 rushes for 235 yards (4.5 avg). 48 rushes for 205 yards (4.3) against SDSU. As you can see, running it 70% of the time in a game and pounding it on the ground real well on a team might not result in the total yardage and touchdowns fireworks people expect, but it's a certain philosophy to a game and the one that seems to suit Nebraska fans' stylistic preferences most...except they are complaining about it.

I'm not complaining about pounding the ball with the running game, that's what I've been wanting all year. A fullback leading one of our two outstanding RB's. But we seem to get away from that because we are obsessed with the zone read (which I admit at times has been spectacular, because of Martinez)and questionable calls. Third and two in the A&M game after we've marched it down the field with Helu and Burkhead and we drop back pass (and yes I do admit, if it goes for a big play, we're probably all saying what a great call, yes we're all fickle). I would really love to see us get Helu and Burkhead 20 carries each against OU. But our OL really has to step up, and we HAVE to eliminate the procedures and illegal formation penalties, and not burn timeouts because we can't get the play in on time.

that is a real concern, getting plays in on offense and defense....a hurry up offense kills substitutions and kills a defense set for the next play. at one time earlier this year i thought our offense was going to run a hurry up sequence or 2, but we fell back to the same, boring or methodical huddle and time consuming march up to the ball.....what the hell happened to varying the tempo? what the hell happened to mixing things up?

To me, that simple sentence really sums up what we need to do. Just try to not be so damn predictable.

This chain of comments made me laugh. So we want Watson to pound the ball, but not be boring or methodical, and still be unpredictable and mix things up.

we? no. i don't think anyone here wants to see him call the same plays and go 3 and out....pound the ball? sure, when it works and the O line can dominate the opponent, but have we seen that regularly this year?..no, except for Helu who tallied 307 rushing in one game.

and has Watson successfully adjusted?.....i can think of at least 3 games when he couldn't find his aze with both hands free! the zone read is not pounding the rock, it is a deception scheme, we haven't literally pounded the ball against anyone, except one early game when the offensive line had to tell the knucklehead to let them pound the ball!.....hey now, that's some real coaching there. :LOLtartar

 

[74Hunter]

This chain of comments made me laugh. So we want Watson to pound the ball, but not be boring or methodical, and still be unpredictable and mix things up.

I could not agree more, haha! The real problem is, we just don't have an identity with this offense.

And if some of the execution problems that have plagued this offense: not getting plays in on time, calling timeouts, missed assignments, dropped balls, stupid holding, procedure, and alignment penalties happen with different players, year after year, pure and simple, it is a coaching issue. The coaches are not developing these players or putting them in a good position to succeed.

 

[zoogs]

We're Nebraska, we don't mix it up, we run it at your throats...

For real, it's pretty much what everyone called for.

But in spite of the ratio and the limited scope of what is available on offense with Taylor at QB, we have been fairly multiple as we can be when he was healthy. With him unhealthy we've tried to shut it down and not mix it up, same philosophy as last year: eschew the style points and just win games.

 

[Hunter94]

The coaches are not developing these players or putting them in a good position to succeed.

pretty much sums it up, when you have problems with execution, you go back and coach your way through them, you don't just hope things will "fix themselves"....and i think we are seeing that now......sigh