For all the kool-aid drinkers, Sip serves up something else

Husker in WI said:
I think there could be some significant improvement. By the end of the year they were decent, and they should be improved across the board since we have everyone back and some guys with another year under their belts to push them. I think we could see big jumps at Center (2nd full year for Cam) and Guard - Farniok should be an instant improvement over either Hixson or Wilson. They're both a little limited by athleticism and size respectively. I don't think Benhart/Gaylord is an instant improvement at RT, but probably not a drop off from Farniok.
Click to expand...


I agree with your overall take, and that's why I mentioned that the first 3/4 of the season sucked. Mills didn't run for 188 yards against Wisconsin's Top 5 defense off of purely individual effort - he did that because we blew open big holes for him all game.

I tend to disagree about Gaylord doing anything. If he was the guy, why hasn't he been the guy the past two years?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Undone said:
I agree with your overall take, and that's why I mentioned that the first 3/4 of the season sucked. Mills didn't run for 188 yards against Wisconsin's Top 5 offensive off of purely individual effort - he did that because we blew open big holes for him all game.

I tend to disagree about Gaylord doing anything. If he was the guy, why hasn't he been the guy the past two years?
Click to expand...


Honestly I just threw Gaylord in there because people keep insisting that's the plan. I'd be surprised if it was him as well, although last year the answer could've been the injury. But it would've been out of nowhere last year, and would be this year as well. More likely Benhart IMO, and I think there's a solid chance Farniok stays at Tackle which would make some fans very upset. I'd be fine with it, just hope someone steps up at Guard - Piper could, and Hixson/Wilson could very well keep their jobs. I don't know enough about line play to know how much of the problem was individuals, and how much was just the line needing to gel.

 
Husker in WI said:
I don't know enough about line play to know how much of the problem was individuals, and how much was just the line needing to gel.
Click to expand...


Strength-wise, I think we were quite a ways off the mark this season still. Technique and cohesion improved somewhere around the Indiana game - but we need to be bigger and stronger.

My hat's off to whatever Minnesota is doing in that department. There were basically on Iowa's level in strength this season IMO. Their pass-blocking was great.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Undone said:
I think this is a fallacy. Old school Oregon offense would do just fine in any conference. It just has to be matched with a physical defensive style a la the likes of Wisconsin & Iowa.

But the crux of our current issue is the offensive line. Maybe people get tired of talking about this point because it's so basic. Our offensive line was nowhere close to the level of, say, the top 6 teams in the conference this season. Both run blocking and pass blocking sucked for the first 3/4 of the year.

This is why this is a 4-5 year fix. Once these big, talented, young offensive line recruits are ready to play, the entire outlook changes. It's really hard to say in my opinion how much of a good jump our OL could realistically make by next season - my guess is not that much. But in 2021 I think we have a good chance of winning the West.
Click to expand...
To bad we don’t play a physical style of defense.  Also, our d-line will regress next season.   

What happened to Oregon’s best team when they played a B10 team for a title?

They got thrown around like rag dolls.

Please put down the kool-aid.....it’s rat poison!

 
SFW said:
To bad we don’t play a physical style of defense.  Also, our d-line will regress next season.   

What happened to Oregon’s best team when they played a B10 team for a title?

They got thrown around like rag dolls.

Please put down the kool-aid.....it’s rat poison!
Click to expand...


What is a physical "style" of defense then? I agree our defense hasn't been physical enough at times, but not because of the scheme.

 
  • Plus1
Reactions: Toe
SFW said:
To bad we don’t play a physical style of defense.  Also, our d-line will regress next season.   

What happened to Oregon’s best team when they played a B10 team for a title?

They got thrown around like rag dolls.

Please put down the kool-aid.....it’s rat poison!
Click to expand...


My post history on this forum is anything but Kool-Aid drinking. So you're arguing with a straw man there. You're right - we didn't play physical defense this year, and we were half a rung away from being a dumpster fire overall.

You cherry picked one game (the 2015 title game between Ohio State & Mark Helfrich's Oregon) to solidify your point about Oregon's play style not being physical enough. Nobody is going to argue that you're wrong there. But you'd also be pretty far out in left field to not acknowledge just how good of a program Chip Kelly built.

With a good offensive line, you can pretty much run any offensive style you want in any conference at the college level. In the NFL, this isn't a true statement. Did we have a good offensive line this last season? No, we didn't. We're a ways off in that department still.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Undone said:
My post history on this forum is anything but Kool-Aid drinking. So you're arguing with a straw man there. You're right - we didn't play physical defense this year, and we were half a rung away from being a dumpster fire overall.

You cherry picked one game (the 2015 title game between Ohio State & Mark Helfrich's Oregon) to solidify your point about Oregon's play style not being physical enough. Nobody is going to argue that you're wrong there. But you'd also be pretty far out in left field to not acknowledge just how good of a program Chip Kelly built.

With a good offensive line, you can pretty much run any offensive style you want in any conference at the college level. In the NFL, this isn't a true statement. Did we have a good offensive line this last season? No, we didn't. We're a ways off in that department still.
Click to expand...
Your right about Chip Kelly, he built an offense that was different/ tricky/cute, and very hard to stop until coaches eventually figured out how to defend it.

When a team can out physical you...you can’t scheme or defend it.  You just suffer the inevitable.  
 

We will never pass Iowa, Wisconsin, even Minnesota until we can impose our will on them.  Grind the clock and play keep a way.
 

Unfortunately, I see very little that gives me hope Frost and staff get that.

 
  • Haha
Reactions: Toe
SFW said:
Your right about Chip Kelly, he built an offense that was different/ tricky/cute, and very hard to stop until coaches eventually figured out how to defend it.

When a team can out physical you...you can’t scheme or defend it.  You just suffer the inevitable.  
 

We will never pass Iowa, Wisconsin, even Minnesota until we can impose our will on them.  Grind the clock and play keep a way.
 

Unfortunately, I see very little that gives me hope Frost and staff get that.
Click to expand...


You're basically "Anything-Less-Than-A-Championship-Team-Is-Crap" guy. Or maybe you just don't actually watch that much college football to know what you're talking about. My guess is the former.

Nick Saban has gone through stints of running a lot of spread offense tactics over the last few years - similar to the ones you've decried that Oregon under Chip Kelly used. Why has Saban been successful? Because of extremely physical, dominant offensive lines. 

To put it a different way, you're oversimplifying things. You're basically saying "spread offense bad, smash-mouth football good."

 
Last edited by a moderator:
SFW said:
Your right about Chip Kelly, he built an offense that was different/ tricky/cute, and very hard to stop until coaches eventually figured out how to defend it.

When a team can out physical you...you can’t scheme or defend it.  You just suffer the inevitable.  
 

We will never pass Iowa, Wisconsin, even Minnesota until we can impose our will on them.  Grind the clock and play keep a way.
 

Unfortunately, I see very little that gives me hope Frost and staff get that.
Click to expand...


That's a great way to win the Big Ten West, and never win anything more than that. Which at this point I would take, but that's not the point. Wisconsin is probably the best team in the country over the past 10-15 years at doing that, and they haven't won a conference title since the realignment. I realize we're a long way from even that, but that's just not the way to win anymore.

 
SFW said:
Your right about Chip Kelly, he built an offense that was different/ tricky/cute, and very hard to stop until coaches eventually figured out how to defend it.

When a team can out physical you...you can’t scheme or defend it.  You just suffer the inevitable.  
 

We will never pass Iowa, Wisconsin, even Minnesota until we can impose our will on them.  Grind the clock and play keep a way.
 

Unfortunately, I see very little that gives me hope Frost and staff get that.
Click to expand...
hmmm, seems like ohio state has been able to do that just fine against all those teams u mentioned.  

Let's play devils advocate here... u have your way and frost is gone, who are you bringing in thats instilling this culture and performance u want in all of 2 years?  Clearly patience isn't a strong suit of yours, and after you reply, im confident your realistic football expectations probably isnt a strong suit either

 
  • Plus1
Reactions: Toe
SFW said:
Your right about Chip Kelly, he built an offense that was different/ tricky/cute, and very hard to stop until coaches eventually figured out how to defend it.

When a team can out physical you...you can’t scheme or defend it.  You just suffer the inevitable.  
 

We will never pass Iowa, Wisconsin, even Minnesota until we can impose our will on them.  Grind the clock and play keep a way.
 

Unfortunately, I see very little that gives me hope Frost and staff get that.
Click to expand...


Who exactly figured out how to defend it?  His last year at Oregon they were 12-1 and won the Fiesta Bowl.  His  four years as head coach they were 46-7 with appearances in three New Year's Six games plus the National Championship game.  They were a Top 5 team his last three years.

Unless you're talking about NFL teams "figuring it out".  Fortunately I don't see and NFC teams on our schedule any time soon.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top