From a young OL scout team player

As I said, if we have two DTs that are at least as talented as the Peter brothers (who were not as talented as Suh or Warren Sapp) were in the mid '90s, we could have a tremendous defense. Look at how good those SEC defenses from the elite teams have been in the last so many years -- have they had anybody recently who has been as talented as Suh? Probably not.

Suh is a freak, talent-wise. But if you have 11 guys on the field who are really good, it is not a requirement to have a freak. It's just that we probably won't be able to line up with four guys on the line and have a consistent pass rush. It will require different defensive packages such as more stunting and more blitzes from the lbs and dbs. Pelini will find the best ways to utilize the strengths of our defensive players. And yes, it's possible that will add up to having a defense that is at least as good or better next season. :)

 
dawhuskerkc said:
Caveman provided the base line which are the stats;

->Totals: 41 TKLs, 6 TFLs, 1.5 Sacks

-->Overall Totals: 301 TKLs, 73 TFLs, 33.5 Sacks

The question is answered by the production of the entire DL against these stats. Because we do not know the who of next years players are at this time, whoever they are; to be a better DL, they must beat these numbers....and with consideration for when any negatives like penalties give away the performance.

The question will be solved against the numbers Caveman provided.....

the variables are if the schemes change, or they get far fewer plays because of takeaways, or offense keeping the ball longer, the performance might go down, but could still be construed as better.

Scoring defense might also be a weighted part of the equation...which could be analyzed by giving the 4 DL credit for 36% of the 11 player total performance.
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Interesting thought, maybe I will spend some time between now and August looking at that. 1 scheme change that will tell us how good the DL is by conference play is how much Bo and Carl blitz, never had to. The DL was so good at getting pressure after doing their job in holding the OL in place.

carlfense said:
dawhuskerkc said:
***snip***

Overall Totals: 301 TKLs, 73 TFLs, 33.5 Sacks

***snip***
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Those are very, very, impressive numbers for a DL. For comparison's sake, these are the numbers for Alabama, Texas, and Florida defensive lines. (note that these don't include these schools' bowl game statistics and I think the NU numbers include the bowl game.)

Alabama:

98 Tkl, 23.5 TFL, 9.5 Sk, 20 QBH, 5 PBU, 0 Int, 1 FF, 3 Blk

Florida

112 Tkl, 33 TFL, 14 Sk, 48 QBH, 5 PBU, 0 Int, 1 FF, 0 Blk

Texas

116 Tkl, 25.5 TFL, 15.5 Sk, 10 QBH, 7 PBU, 0 Int, 2 FF, 0 Blk

Think the '09 DL was any good? :)
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It was VERY good Carlfense, no doubt about it. The other thing that I think you were trying to point out earlier is that Suh accounted for 28% of the total tackles, 33% of the TFLs, and 36% of the total sacks. Bottom line is that Suh made up for 1/3 of the total production, yet he is just 1/4 of the starting line and a few others contributed to the total numbers on top of the starting 4.

 
Husker33 said:
Hmmmm. I remain skeptical.

Being explosive in practice is respectable, however I do not see Crick being as good as Suh, regardless of the athletic difference.

Crick may be more explosive, stronger, faster, whatever. But he does not have the intangibles that Suh had. Suh had that relentless work ethic that allowed him to win games almost single-handedly. Tebow has it as well. Those are the only two players I have seen this year with that intangible ability around them. Crick will have an excellent career, but I doubt he will develop that aspect of his game. It is very rare to see, especially two in one season.
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Suh only came on strong in his final year, as a senior. Keep in mind, Hickman is a JUNIOR now and has 2 more years to play. Give the kid a chance... I am sure he is going to shock people with his ability.

 
Husker33 said:
Hmmmm. I remain skeptical.

Being explosive in practice is respectable, however I do not see Crick being as good as Suh, regardless of the athletic difference.

Crick may be more explosive, stronger, faster, whatever. But he does not have the intangibles that Suh had. Suh had that relentless work ethic that allowed him to win games almost single-handedly. Tebow has it as well. Those are the only two players I have seen this year with that intangible ability around them. Crick will have an excellent career, but I doubt he will develop that aspect of his game. It is very rare to see, especially two in one season.
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Suh only came on strong in his final year, as a senior. Keep in mind, Hickman is a JUNIOR now and has 2 more years to play. Give the kid a chance... I am sure he is going to shock people with his ability.

 
jjamuss said:
Husker33 said:
Hmmmm. I remain skeptical.

Being explosive in practice is respectable, however I do not see Crick being as good as Suh, regardless of the athletic difference.

Crick may be more explosive, stronger, faster, whatever. But he does not have the intangibles that Suh had. Suh had that relentless work ethic that allowed him to win games almost single-handedly. Tebow has it as well. Those are the only two players I have seen this year with that intangible ability around them. Crick will have an excellent career, but I doubt he will develop that aspect of his game. It is very rare to see, especially two in one season.
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Suh only came on strong in his final year, as a senior. Keep in mind, Hickman is a JUNIOR now and has 2 more years to play. Give the kid a chance... I am sure he is going to shock people with his ability.
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Not true at all. Suh came on last year as a Junior, albeit he really started blossoming in the second half of 2008. The numbers from both years are comparable.

2008

Suh - 76 TKLs, 19 TFLs, 7.5 Sacks

2009

Suh - 85 TKLs, 24 TFLs, 12 Sacks

That being said, Crick still has time. He was a RSo. this year so IF he doesn't go out to the NFL next season, he has 2 years to fully realize his potential under Bo and Carl.

 
junior4949 said:
cscott2win said:
And who thought Ahman Green would end up better than Lawrence Phillips? Crick had a bigger influence as a sophmore than Suh had as a junior. We all started this year with Steinkuhler playing beside Suh. Where did this Crick guy come from? Dillard doesn't even play the first 2 weeks. O'Hanlon getting thrown under the bus after the V Tech game. Some players really stepped it up. I look for a lot more next year but a more overall balanced group. Nebraska's defense will be pretty strong at all positions with more depth next season. Can't wait!!
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You can put me in the camp that though Ahman would be better than Phillips. Look how they started their careers. Phillips as a frosh was behind Benning. It wasn't until Benning started putting the rock on the carpet frequently that Phillips passed him by. Also, Phillips from day one never had his head screwed on straight. I knew one of his tutors that said TO was always coming over while they were studying telling Phillips to stay out of trouble even when he was a frosh. Ahman always had his head screwed on straight and kept his mouth shut.

I agree with Carlfense here. I think next year after the bowl game, the stats will clearly show the DL saw no improvement to a step backwards. You don't take the leader from a defense who may have been the best to ever play the position here and not take a step sideways to backwards the following year. As great as Frost was at QB, we took a step backward in 1996. It was like the Giants trying to replace LT. You just don't take steps forward when replacing one of the greatest players ever to grace Memorial Stadium.
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Bo said we will be 5 times better next year. That is a little bold but overall the total D shouldn't suffer because we have quality kids stepping in that will have two full years/3rd year under Bo and staff. Plus, Bo's recruits will start to make their impact as well. I personally think winning the scoring title on D this year was not on the radar but since we did it last year, that will be one of the goals for 2010 as well. Boise has 21/22 coming back, No Carolina is suppose to have a killer D too, Bama, Texas and OU are going to be good as well. I am sure we will not have too much of a fall back on D this coming year with the losses even though those losses include one of the best ever at DT.

 
robsker said:
carlfense said:
robsker said:
Wow. This is more fun than actually working.

The focus of our debate has not changed. I have stated several time that 3 reasonable scenarios regarding the DL next year are probable --- a slight drop-off, a comparable level of performance, or a modest improvement. I stated that all are likely, that I'd not be surprised if any of the scenarios were manifest and that the modest improvement is perhaps most likely (though not wildly so). I built that argument on Allan and Crick improving, Meredith being an improvement over Turner and better depth --- and that all those improvements will likely counterbalance the drop-off in going from Suh to Steinkuhler. I also stated that the unknown (though optimistic) performance level of Steinkuhler is the likely determiner of which scenario plays out. i also asserted that Steinkuhler is likely to be really, really good (albeit not Suh good).

You, if I understood you correctly, stated that an expectation for an improved defensive line is irrational. You equated such a prediction to the Missouri fans expecting an improved offense after losing All-American caliber people at QB, TE, and WR. My retort was that the two situations (predicting a better post-QB,TE, WR improvement at Missouri and a post-Suh improvement at NU) are wildly different. Losing a QB, a WR, and a TE is far greater a loss than losing a DT --- no matter how good the DT was. Thus, I pointed out that your basis (or, at least your exampel) for showing the irrationality of my assertion (that we can improve at the DL even with losing Suh) was flawed.

As to the quote --- again, I am at work and cannot take time to find it. Someone else earlier referred to it... did they not? Anyway, i recall hearing (not reading, actually --- though maybe I read it as well --- albeit could have been from another poster as a "quote of a quote") Bo say that he expects that there will be no drop-off based upon the returning experience at the other positions in the DL. Bo certainly expects a better defense and --- I suppose I could be mistaken and mis-interpreted what he said) I think he also expects an improvement (or, at least, no drop off).

In any event such a prediction (of improvement) may not come to pass --- but it is certainly rational and may come to fruition.
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As far as I can tell the Pelini quote you are talking about does not exist.

Anyways. I don't think either of us are budging on our predictions. We'll see what the results are when the season is over. Only 11.5 months until we find out who is correct! :snacks:
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I hope it is me --- and , as a Husker fan, I am sure you do too.

No matter what, NU's DL will be wicked good. That too I think we can agree upon.

GBR.
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I dont know about the others in this thread, but I know my comments were made in reference to crick being as good as suh "when its all said and done" like the quote said.

 
im going to throw this out there, my dad and i got to pondering this situation...

Who's to say the league doesnt swallow Suh like it did Dorsey? Hype is hype, whether youre a big red fan or a front office guy calling the shots with your first pick.

Who's to say that Suh put those numbers up only because he had Crick beside him? There is no denying Suh is supremely gifted physically...but what if this entire defense contributed a lot more to his success than 'ESPN' would have you believe? One team ignored Crick and the other no-headliners this year, focusing on Suh, and paid dearly for it. Very telling. Crick faced a lot more double teams than you guys are giving credit for...remember, our D made hay because they could rush 4 against pass protection with success...thats 5 lineman plus a TE or RB most times vs 4 angry huskers. Suh's not the only one dealing with two guys so valiantly.

Crick is young...intangibles, blah blah blah...Suh was a senior this year, experienced, etc. One could argue that Crick shone just as bright on raw talent alone. Couple more years of Bo seasoning, its not unrealistic to think Crick could be better. Thats doubting Bo more than Crick to me, after seeing the difference he made in Suh's career.

I dont say these things to bolster Crick being all world, or Suh being a sham, or anything like that. I simply think its silly to write off either one based on this past year alone.

 
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I think overall the d-line will be comparable. Crick and Allen will be a year better. Meredith and Ankrah should be as good as Turner. Stein will be a drop-off from Suh but he'll hold his own. Plus we'll have Randle, Moore, and Williams in the mix.

 
cscott2win said:
And who thought Ahman Green would end up better than Lawrence Phillips? Crick had a bigger influence as a sophmore than Suh had as a junior. We all started this year with Steinkuhler playing beside Suh. Where did this Crick guy come from? Dillard doesn't even play the first 2 weeks. O'Hanlon getting thrown under the bus after the V Tech game. Some players really stepped it up. I look for a lot more next year but a more overall balanced group. Nebraska's defense will be pretty strong at all positions with more depth next season. Can't wait!!
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Green was great!! But better than LP on the field?

Nope.

 
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