From Penn State Fan
- Thread starter Shawn Moore
- Start date
PAHuskerFan
Three-Star Recruit
Welcome Shawn. I live 30mins west and work in State College.
Penn Staters treating visiting fans with respect? What planet are you from?
More Penn State BS. Sorry, no sale. PSU's cover has been blown.
Some inconvenient facts:
In 1982 our players were physically attacked on the field after the game while the "police" looked on.
Turner Gill was struck in the face and his helmet stolen. I was at the game. My family and I were
verbally harrassed and abused all the way to our car, even by traffic cops.
In 2002, the PSU campus police advised our coaching staff to evacuate our cheerleaders as they could
no longer guarantee their physical safety. PSU "fans" were throwing beer bottles at them. Hundreds of Husker
fans reported "incidents".
Last Wednesday, 10,000 Penn State "students" ran amok on campus, attacking police with rocks, destroying
a news van, lightposts, and a private car. The chief of the campus police described all of it as mere
"shenanigans:, not a riot at all.
Death threats have been directed at the assistant coach who told Paterno about the shower room child assault in 2002.
Several locals have indicated violence is being planned for the game.
Having lived in Virginia and Ohio, I can assure you Penn State's hostility toward visiting fans is legendary.
I advised my daughter not to attend the game.
To all Husker fans attending the game at that open air nut house, be very careful.
More Penn State BS. Sorry, no sale. PSU's cover has been blown.
Some inconvenient facts:
In 1982 our players were physically attacked on the field after the game while the "police" looked on.
Turner Gill was struck in the face and his helmet stolen. I was at the game. My family and I were
verbally harrassed and abused all the way to our car, even by traffic cops.
In 2002, the PSU campus police advised our coaching staff to evacuate our cheerleaders as they could
no longer guarantee their physical safety. PSU "fans" were throwing beer bottles at them. Hundreds of Husker
fans reported "incidents".
Last Wednesday, 10,000 Penn State "students" ran amok on campus, attacking police with rocks, destroying
a news van, lightposts, and a private car. The chief of the campus police described all of it as mere
"shenanigans:, not a riot at all.
Death threats have been directed at the assistant coach who told Paterno about the shower room child assault in 2002.
Several locals have indicated violence is being planned for the game.
Having lived in Virginia and Ohio, I can assure you Penn State's hostility toward visiting fans is legendary.
I advised my daughter not to attend the game.
To all Husker fans attending the game at that open air nut house, be very careful.
Last edited by a moderator:
Landomatic
Five-Star Recruit
I didn't count them. But apparently you did.
Good for you!
I was going with the television reports.
What are you going by?
But thanks for the meaningless "correction".
"The average man learns from his mistakes, The superior man from the mistakes of others.
The fool never learns."
-Otto von Bismarck
Good for you!
I was going with the television reports.
What are you going by?
But thanks for the meaningless "correction".
"The average man learns from his mistakes, The superior man from the mistakes of others.
The fool never learns."
-Otto von Bismarck
Last edited by a moderator:
gratefullred
Special Teams Player
I feel for the Penn St fans and current players. It would be nice if everyone could focus on the game for at least 3 hours on Saturday, but I don't think even that can happen.
Hopefully these events at Penn St make universities and special needs organizations around the world take notice of how these terrible things can happen.
Thoughts and prayers.
Hopefully these events at Penn St make universities and special needs organizations around the world take notice of how these terrible things can happen.
Thoughts and prayers.
knapplc
International Man of Mystery
This has nothing to do with "mob mentality." I suppose by this definition expecting the sun to rise in the east is "mob mentality."
If you don't know enough to make a judgment in this case, you have your head in the sand.
•
1994-97
: According to the grand jury report, Sandusky engages in inappropriate conduct with three boys he met separately through The Second Mile. One boy was 7 or 8, another was 10 and the third was 12 or 13. According to the report, the now-grown men said Sandusky engaged in inappropriate conduct ranging from touching to outright sexual encounters.
•
1998
: Penn State police and the state Department of Public Welfare investigate an incident in which the mother of an 11-year-old boy reported Sandusky had showered with her son and may have had inappropriate contact with him. In a June 1, 1998, interview with investigators, Sandusky admits showering naked with the boy, admitting it was wrong and promising not to do it again, the grand jury report says. The district attorney decides no charges will be filed and the university police chief closes the case, according to the grand jury.
•
1999
: Sandusky retires from Penn State after coaching there for 32 years, but retains full access to the campus and football facilities.
•
2000:
Sandusky showers with a young boy and tries to touch his genitals during overnight stays at the coach's house, according to the now 24-year-old man's testimony in the grand jury report.
•
2000
: Tim Calhoun, a janitor at the Lasch Football Building on the Penn State campus, tells his supervisor and another janitor he saw Sandusky performing oral sex on a young boy, according to the grand jury report. A second janitor reports he saw Sandusky and a boy leave a shower room and walk out of the building hand in hand. No one reports the incident to university officials or law enforcement, according to the grand jury.
•
March 2, 2002
: According to the grand jury report,
a graduate assistant tells coach
http://www.mcall.com/topic/sports/football/joe-paterno-PEHST001541.topicJoe Paterno
http://www.mcall.com/topic/sports/football/joe-paterno-PEHST001541.topiche saw Sandusky in the locker room shower the night before, performing a sex act on a young boy he estimated to be 10 years old
.
•
March 3, 2002
: Paterno reports the incident to Athletic Director
http://www.mcall.com/topic/sports/college-sports/tim-curley-PEBSL000582.topicTim Curley
http://www.mcall.com/topic/sports/college-sports/tim-curley-PEBSL000582.topic, saying the graduate assistant had seen Sandusky "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy," according to the grand jury. Later, the assistant is summoned to a meeting with Curley and Senior Vice President for Finance and Business
http://www.mcall.com/topic/education/colleges-universities/gary-schultz-PEBSL000581.topicGary Schultz
http://www.mcall.com/topic/education/colleges-universities/gary-schultz-PEBSL000581.topic. The assistant later tells the grand jury he told Curley and Schultz he saw Sandusky and the boy engaged in a sex act, but Curley and Schultz told the grand jury they had not been told of such an allegation. Instead, Curley said he had the impression the conduct amounted to non-sexual "horsing around." Schultz said he couldn't remember details, but seemed to recall that "Sandusky might have inappropriately grabbed the young boy's genitals while wrestling," according to the grand jury.
Sandusky's locker room keys are confiscated, he is told not to bring his Second Mile participants to campus
and the incident is reported to the charity, but no law enforcement investigation is launched, according to the grand jury.
•
2002
: The Second Mile learns of the shower incident. Curley tells the charity that "the information had been internally reviewed and that there was no finding of wrongdoing," The Second Mile said in a statement Monday.
•
2005 or 2006
: Sandusky allegedly befriends another Second Mile participant whose allegations would form the foundation of the multiyear grand jury investigation.
•
2006 or 2007
: A wrestling coach at the high school where Sandusky was volunteering allegedly surprises Sandusky and the boy "lying on their sides, in physical contact, face to face on a wrestling mat." Sandusky tells the coach the two were working on wrestling moves, the coach tells the grand jury. Sandusky allegedly begins to spend more time with the boy, taking him to sporting events and giving him gifts, including golf clubs, a computer, cash and clothes. During this period, according to the grand jury report, Sandusky performs oral sex on the boy more than 20 times, and the boy performs oral sex on him once.
•
2008
: The boy's mother calls the high school to report her son had been sexually assaulted, and the principal bars Sandusky from campus and reports the incident to police. The investigation reveals 118 calls from Sandusky's home and cellphone numbers to the boy's home.
•
November 2008
: Sandusky informs The Second Mile he is under investigation and he is removed from all program activities involving children, according to the charity.
•
September 2010
: Sandusky retires from The Second Mile, according to the grand jury.
This is an excerpt from this article. The two underlined portions are my emphasis. The second underlined segment shows that PSU authorities, and specifically Joe Paterno, took the allegations of these incidents seriously enough to take action to curb Sandusky's access. It is a clear statement that they - and specifically Joe Paterno - knew he was involved in nefarious acts.
You ask for "proof" that Paterno should have been fired. The two underlined segments alone are more than enough to fire Paterno because he did not report specifically what he heard to the police, Child Social Services or any other external authority immediately. The fact that he never reported these things to an external authority is not only grounds for termination, it is disgraceful. Shameful. Horrible. Indefensible.
The fact that Sandusky was never personally barred from access to campus, athletic facilities or contact with the team also means Paterno had to be fired. Joe was in charge, to a degree sufficient to have Sandusky immediately and permanently barred on his word alone. He knew, or had every reason to know, that Sandusky was involved in heinous acts. Failing to take every conceivable action to ensure the safety of his players, kids on campus, and every child involved in Second Mile is an unforgivable abrogation of his duties as a leader of young men.
The only reason people are complaining that Paterno was fired is due to his status as a football coach. If he were a regular joe, nobody would care that he was fired. His celebrity, and his celebrity alone, is all that makes people think he should still be employed.
Last edited by a moderator:
scarletNcream
Special Teams Player
Emeritus and Tenure, not sure he could have stopped him.
EbylHusker
Banned
I will just keep posting this wherever necessary...
It's from the grand jury report and is a summary of JP's testimony, given under oath.
"Joseph V. Paterno testified to receiving the graduate assistant's report at his home on a Saturday morning. Paterno testified that the graduate assistant was very upset. Paterno called Tim Curley ("Curley"), Penn State Athletic Director and Paterno's immediate superior, to his home the very next day, a Sunday, and reported to him that the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch Building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy."
Now, JP is widely known to be one of the most influential and powerful people at PSU. If he wanted someone gone and actually went to bat to get it done, unless it was someone of extreme importance or deep pockets, he/she would be gone within a reasonable amount of time. And we all know that didn't happen.
Last edited by a moderator:
HuskerGBR
Special Teams Player
I think what some people are saying is you can't PROVE in a court of law that Mr. Paterno knew anything except for what he was told by detectives/district attorney in 1998 (which there is no record of those detectives or the district attorney saying anything to Mr. Paterno about that investigation, which would be hard to fathom Mr. Paterno didn't know anything about it...but you still have to prove it) and then the GA in 2002. We can speculate sure. I believe Mr. Paterno knew more about it then he is saying which is why that sick f@@@ Sandusky retired in 1999 . After the incident in 1998, the detectives eavesdropped on two conversations that the mother of the victim had with that POS(I will refer to that man by these initials from now on). It should have been stopped right here, but the detectives should have got a recording. Then the district attorney at the time, Ray Gricar (who flat out disappeared in 2005...very odd circumstances), decided not to press criminal charges. Note-these are police officers and the district attorney. The detectives and DA never mention that they told Mr. Paterno anything about this incident, but I find it hard to believe that Mr. Paterno didn't know about the investigation...but until proven we can only speculate on this.
So in 2000, a janitor observed another incident and for some reason a report is never filed by the janitor or his supervisor who was told of the incident. So Mr. Paterno may have never known about this incident and there is no proof that he did. We may never know, because the janitor, a Korean War Veteran, has dementia and is unable to give a testimony.
The last account on University property was in 2002. This was the GA's account. He told Paterno who in turn told his superior, Tim Curley, the very next day and reported a version of the GA's account. At some point, and it is not clear exactly when, Mr. Paterno, Gary Schultz (senior VP for finance and business, also oversees campus police) and Curley had a meeting which I believe came before Schultz and Curley talked with the GA. One and a half (I REPEAT ONE AND A HALF) weeks later the GA was called in to have a meeting with Curley and Schultz. The GA gave his account to them and then doesn't hear back from Curley until two weeks later. Curley then told the GA that the POS's keys to the locker room were taken away and that Second Mile was notified. According to testimony, the GA and Curley said that the POS was not banned from the facilities. Schultz testified that Spanier (the university president) approved of banning the POS from bringing children into the locker room. How is this appropriate action either? The GA was never questioned by anyone else. Note-The GA also never said anything about this to any other authorities until he was pulled before a grand jury in December 2010.
The grand jury found that Schultz and Curley made materially false statements under oath and that portions of their testimony are not credible. Spanier also seems to be playing the plausible deniability card based on his testimony, but that is speculation on my part.
Now Mr. Paterno was only indicated in having knowledge of the 2002 incident. I hope that nobody disagrees that he did not take appropriate action. Mr. Paterno is not the only one to blame. According to testimony, Mr. Paterno is one of the lowest people in this that you could blame. What gets me is he had a chance to do something noble and nail that POS, but instead passed the buck (which he might have done in case he was wrong...which there would have been major repercussions legally if Mr. Paterno was). I do not know what the law in Pennsylvania is on reporting this, since Mr. Paterno reported it to his superiors...I will look into that and see what I can find.
Don't mistake me for condoning anything that Mr. Paterno did or failed to do. I believe that he was the head coach and knew more then what is in that grand jury report...he needs to be subpoenaed and the authorites need to find out what he actually knew. They need facts to support theories and not theories to support facts, which the general public is guilty of in a lot of cases.
knapplc
International Man of Mystery
I can stop you at that first sentence. Because you do not need to prove anything beyond what you've written right here to know that Paterno had an obligation to cry to high heaven that something was horribly, dreadfully wrong based on that alone, right there. Joe Paterno had the biggest voice on that campus, the highest podium from which to declaim, and he did nothing.
That right there is why he got fired.
EbylHusker
Banned
Exactly. His grand jury testimony proves he knew something of a sexual nature happened to a young boy. He may not end up being charged with anything, but that doesn't mean he can't be fired for enabling the abuse of minors through his inaction.
majech
Four-Star Recruit
Nice post. Thanks for sharing that.
I mean no disrespect, but you are not still Penn State. Actually that died over a decade ago when PSU powers chose loyalty to a monster over protecting innocent, disadvantaged children. We just didn't recognize the rotting decay because they were diligent at covering the stench. Penn State will never again be "Penn State". Happy Valley? Come on. Thing have forever changed.
I'd move on and find a new team if I were you. The people that allowed this were in high positions, had been team captains, and were considered iconic humanitarians. They have betrayed their fans in a way that is beyond repair in my mind. That institution is no longer worth your fandom, imo.
HuskerGBR
Special Teams Player
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/09/us-usa-crime-coach-law-idUSTRE7A86WS20111109
This is a link that describes the law at the time. The law was changed in 2007. "A subordinate can discharge his mandatory reporting responsibility by reporting to his boss." So Mr. Paterno did fulfill his legal obligation...moral obligation is a whole different subject. I have no problem with him getting fired and my post was mostly about what Mr. Paterno did know. According to his grand jury report he was never made aware of the specifics of what happened according to the GA. He only found out when he read the grand jury report.
"As my grand jury testimony stated," Joe Paterno said in the statement, "I was informed in 2002 by an assistant coach that he had witnessed an incident in the shower of our locker room facility. It was obvious that the witness was distraught over what he saw, but he at no time related to me the very specific actions contained in the Grand Jury report. Regardless, it was clear that the witness saw something inappropriate involving Mr. Sandusky. As Coach Sandusky was retired from our coaching staff at that time, I referred the matter to university administrators."
Mr. Paterno wasn't charged and the grand jury report didn't implicate him in any wrongdoing. At this point in time, we only know that he was informed of the 2002 incident. Yes, he should have done A LOT (I repeat A LOT) more and morally I don't know how someone doesn't do more.
Like I said I have no problem with his firing. He did do something and not nothing, but it was the least amount possible.