Fumbles

[Guy Chamberlin]

Couple things that could possibly be addressed:

After his freshman season injury, Martinez was clearly coached to not take a big hit. So when he breaks into the open he immediately anticipates how best to go down. He rarely hook slides, and instead goes into this awkard upright position, where he's not fighting forward but not going down and defenders - knowing his reputation - hold him up and start hammering at the ball. I don't love the hook slide, but sometimes it makes sense. The other way Taylor loses fumbles is the way a lot of players are losing fumbles - including NFL players - where they stretch out for a touchdown or a first down or just the extra yard and the ball is extremely vulnerable. Unless it's fourth down or there's no time on the clock, it's really a stupid risk. This is easily addressed. Just don't do it. The other place is bad snaps and exchanges. I don't think Martinez is egregious in this department, but it's the kind of thing that should get better year to year.

Abdullah had a couple fumbles this year at bad times in big games, but I don't think he ranks as a liability. Burkhead had a couple, too.

Martinez needs to take care of his own issues, but when you have team-wide turnover problems, penalty problems and clock-managment problems, it means the team is wound too tight, and the head coach needs to get them cool and confident before they take the field.

 

[Ocean]

I know this may sound silly. During the bowel game the announcers showed the type of football the team uses in comparison to that of Georgia. Georgia's ball was pretty much brand new. Nebraska's on the other hand was old and looked pretty worn. So, my question is this. Besides arm strength and mind over matter, does the football itself lend itself to higher fumble rate? Like I said, I know it sounds silly, but I'm just curious what you guys think.

 

[beanman]

I know this may sound silly. During the bowel game the announcers showed the type of football the team uses in comparison to that of Georgia. Georgia's ball was pretty much brand new. Nebraska's on the other hand was old and looked pretty worn. So, my question is this. Besides arm strength and mind over matter, does the football itself lend itself to higher fumble rate? Like I said, I know it sounds silly, but I'm just curious what you guys think.

Poop

 

[Ocean]

I know this may sound silly. During the bowel game the announcers showed the type of football the team uses in comparison to that of Georgia. Georgia's ball was pretty much brand new. Nebraska's on the other hand was old and looked pretty worn. So, my question is this. Besides arm strength and mind over matter, does the football itself lend itself to higher fumble rate? Like I said, I know it sounds silly, but I'm just curious what you guys think.

Poop

My bad, I meant bowl. Not intestines.

 

[Big Red 40]

I don't know if the ball really contributes to fumbles,but i was thinking the same thing when they showed ours. I remember old footballs like that being very slick and hard to hold onto.No idea why they chose to use them.

That's really what i think. No Poop! :funnyhahah (sorry i had to)

 

[Ocean]

I don't know if the ball really contributes to fumbles,but i was thinking the same thing when they showed ours. I remember old footballs like that being very slick and hard to hold onto.No idea why they chose to use them.

That's really what i think. No Poop! :funnyhahah (sorry i had to)

HAHA I guess that's what I get for talking about a team's bowels on a message board.

But anyway, yea. I don't know if there is any credence in whether a worn condition of a ball leads to an increase in fumbles, but I would imagine if the ball was a slick as the one they showed on television it would make it a pain to grip onto without gloves, especially in the rain.

 

[4skers89]

My solution to most problems in football is to get stronger and faster. After watching a fumble by Taylor in slow motion my solution seems appropriate. A defender tugged on his arm and out popped the ball which made me think that shouldn't happen. If he had the right arm strength and the defender had that good of a grip, it should have spun him around while still holding onto the ball. Taylor's a little guy so I don't expect him to break through a tackle attempt like that but he shouldn't fumble. I believe most RBs that fumble infrequently have strong biceps and forearms. Even when the ball is directly hit by a defender's helmet the ball may bobble but won't pop out.

I also believe that the spread offense contributes to fumbles. A ball carrier has defenders flying at them from different directions. When our offense was based on the traditional option the ball carriers knew when contact would be made and knew when to protect the ball better. I forget which game it was but I remember watching Ameer dance through the opponents secondary surrounded by defenders. It seemed strange until I realized that is just the nature of the offense we run. We spread the defense out and get people in space. When the play is run a ball carrier won't know which or when a corner might come off his receiver to make a tackle attempt. Compare that to the toss sweep in the power run game. A RB probably knows who the main tackler will be that he needs to beat and where contact will be made prior to the snap based on how the defense is lined up. The QB/RB exchange in the read option also seems to contribute to a few fumbles. Should be fixed with more repetitions in practice. These are not an excuse for the fumbles but I believe might explain the reason we seem to have more fumbles then in the 80's & 90's.

The coaches need to somehow emphasize how important it is to hang onto the ball. One of the best ways to do that is to bench a player that fumbles. If they lack a better alternative then they lose that as a way to motivate. I would guess the coaches felt it was better to have a chronic fumbler like Taylor on the field then sitting on the bench even though his turnovers really hurt the team. Unfortunately even though Taylor will put up some spectacular numbers, if he continues to be a turnover machine next season he won't be remembered as being one of the greatest quarterbacks. Our fans are too smart to discount the turnovers when looking at the other great stats. That's really too bad since he is a dynamic quarterback and has been exciting to watch.

Seriously? Lol stronger and faster? Taylor can't get any faster. Taylor a little guy? Height wise in the QB world, sure I could agree, but he is 6' 1" on a good day, and looks to be over what Husker says @ 200lbs. Thats not a little guy. You can make his stronger, if he doesn't handle a ball correctly or doesn't drop when someone is trying to strip it, its going to happen.

It doesn't matter how strong or fast you are, it matter how you secure the ball, and you don't give the defender time to strip it. The helmet fumbles are getting rarer due to rules, since the defender isn't allowed to lead with the helmet. Like I said, strength isn't the factor, its how you secure the ball that matters.

Bench the player that fumbles is good IF you have good players to back them up. Who is going to come in for Taylor??? This year, nobody. Next year, possibly Armstrong. Ameer doesn't fumble enough on offense to bench him. Special Teams, EVERYONE is fumbling on Special Teams. From Ameer, to Bell, all the way to "sure hands" Marlowe. Its hard to see how you say that " would guess the coaches felt it was better to have a chronic fumbler like Taylor on the field then sitting on the bench even though his turnovers really hurt the team." What game, besides the UCLA game, can you say Taylor's fumble has hurt the team? The defense this year has hurt the team. The defense is the one who allowed 600+ yards/game in 4 games. Not Taylor.

The coaches emphasis how important it is for these guys to hold on to the ball. Thats all they can do, and run drills. They can't go out there and hold on to the ball for them like some people on here think. We play our BEST players. Its simple as that. Lets bench our best players for them fumbling a couple times out of the year. Lets take our game maker Taylor out because he makes way more good plays than he does fumble.

I guess I should have been more clear. I meant faster and stronger as a general solution to most football related problems. I don't know how improving anyones speed would prevent fumbling and hence didn't discuss anything related to that.

I'm not sure what your expectations are for securing the ball. In Taylor's fumble I was discussing he wasn't carrying it like a bread loaf. He had one arm around the ball and tucked against his body which seemed appropriate for where he was in the run. There is a reason you don't see RBs running down the field with two arms wrapped around the ball. It wasn't like Taylor was hit hard by mutliple tacklers. The defender didn't even grab for the ball, just his arm so I didn't think the ball should be coming loose if he had better arm strength.

Obviously the defense was a major problem this year. Someone pointed out on 1620 this morning that they started to view fumbles the last couple of years differently. Previously they were lost scoring opportunities but the defense was good so it didn't necessarily mean the other team would score. The defense was bailing out the offense. The last couple of years the turnovers have become scores for the other team because our defense is poor and the offense needs to outscore the other team to bail out the defense. I think having a poor defense makes it less likely that you can pull your playmakers on offense when they are turning the ball over. You need to score points. If you have a good defense you are better off benching a turnover prone QB or RB for someone that is less dynamic but can produce the occasional scoring drive. A pick six or fumble giving the other team a short field is especially bad if you have a good defense. It's better to not turn the ball over, punt and make the other team drive the field. Given a better defense we probably had people on the bench to replace the fumblers.

I was using Taylor's fumbles as an example and for discussion so it seemed like I was putting everything on him and disregarding the other people making turnovers. Hopefully the staff will take the time to look at the fumbles this year to see if there is something they can fix. The fumbles on punts can probably be fixed. I seem to recall being taught to keep elbows in closer together when catching punts. That keeps the ball from slipping through the arms and landing between your legs similar to 3 of Ameer's bobbled punts.

 

[HuskerNationNick]

I guess I should have been more clear. I meant faster and stronger as a general solution to most football related problems. I don't know how improving anyones speed would prevent fumbling and hence didn't discuss anything related to that.

I'm not sure what your expectations are for securing the ball. In Taylor's fumble I was discussing he wasn't carrying it like a bread loaf. He had one arm around the ball and tucked against his body which seemed appropriate for where he was in the run. There is a reason you don't see RBs running down the field with two arms wrapped around the ball. It wasn't like Taylor was hit hard by mutliple tacklers. The defender didn't even grab for the ball, just his arm so I didn't think the ball should be coming loose if he had better arm strength.

Obviously the defense was a major problem this year. Someone pointed out on 1620 this morning that they started to view fumbles the last couple of years differently. Previously they were lost scoring opportunities but the defense was good so it didn't necessarily mean the other team would score. The defense was bailing out the offense. The last couple of years the turnovers have become scores for the other team because our defense is poor and the offense needs to outscore the other team to bail out the defense. I think having a poor defense makes it less likely that you can pull your playmakers on offense when they are turning the ball over. You need to score points. If you have a good defense you are better off benching a turnover prone QB or RB for someone that is less dynamic but can produce the occasional scoring drive. A pick six or fumble giving the other team a short field is especially bad if you have a good defense. It's better to not turn the ball over, punt and make the other team drive the field. Given a better defense we probably had people on the bench to replace the fumblers.

I was using Taylor's fumbles as an example and for discussion so it seemed like I was putting everything on him and disregarding the other people making turnovers. Hopefully the staff will take the time to look at the fumbles this year to see if there is something they can fix. The fumbles on punts can probably be fixed. I seem to recall being taught to keep elbows in closer together when catching punts. That keeps the ball from slipping through the arms and landing between your legs similar to 3 of Ameer's bobbled punts.

The fumbles on Special Teams, seems to be the easiest fix of all to me. I think that comes more down to impatience and lack of trust. Ameer, his problem is he is looking for that hole before the ball gets there, and when he makes contact, he tries to break away before securing it. There is also a play where he called fair catch, but it was like he was scared he was still going to get plowed. That part is a lack of trust IMO. Marlowe, I could understand his worries, as he just came off a broken collarbone, but when you call fair catch, JUST catch the ball. Instilling trust and patience I think is key to limiting turnovers and muffed punts on Special Teams. Patience comes with maturity though.

Taylor is a pretty strong kid, he just lacks patience and in most cases, doesn't secure the ball when he breaks away or runs down the field. I watch a lot of his zone read keepers, and I repeat under my breathe "tuck that ball!! Tuck that ball!!". Those are habits that are harder to break than anything, because when your in a zone, you fall back into what feels natural. Like him throwing off his back foot. He worked hard on fixing that, but under pressure and in a zone, he resorts to what he is use to and comfortable to.

We obviously have fumbling issues, but I am just unsure what the staff can do to help prevent this. On Special Teams, like I said, instill patience and trust in your players that they have your back. Offense, just be smart and secure it. Hold it to your pads tight and don't let it go. Fumbles happen though, but our streak is beyond the "it just happens" mark.

Maybe having drills where the defense only focus' on forcing fumbles, since contact is limited in practices anymore.

 

[NoLongerN]

I would think that the additional running these kids face is amazing. I coach tennis. I will put pressure on the kids in serving practice all the time. Do 10 serves in a row. Miss a serve do 25 pushups. Then serve again. Some kids will do 200 pushups in just 10 serves. Lots of various consequences. DF in a match and you run a 7:00 mile for each DF. Fail, do two miles in 7:10 pace. Keep adding. I would think that TM runs a lot of stairs.

Man, I thought tennis practice was supposed to be fun!!! haha

It is ... atleast mine are ... but really, you throw the ball to yourself and then hit it. If you can't do that and perform under pressure in practice ... you certainly ain't gonna do it when it counts. If you can't have fun and get it done in practice ... well ... you better take some time out of practice to get that corrected ... cause come game day if you want to win you can't lose a point or a game cause you couldn't toss the ball to yourself.

 

[ZRod]

This fumble stat is a pretty illusive one to track down. The best that I could find is that Taylor had 16 fumbles on the year and lost 8 of those. First in the nation for fumbles and tied for first in fumbles lost.

Just off the top of my head I know 2 of those fumbles were in passing situations when he go hit while he was in a throwing motion and lost the ball. If you drop those 2 he's tied with Ameer and others for 6 lost on the year (Ameer had 8 total fumbles). That's one more than Braxton Miller and Marcus Mariota (both with 8 fumbles) the best mobile QBs I can think of other than Manziel, who I can't find stats on but I don't think he turned it over much.

*I guess I forgot Robinson 6 total 3 lost for his short 2012 season, he's more of an interception machine though.

So in summary yes it's a problem, but it's really not something most other mobile QBs are immune from either. Ameer's stats are pretty high for a running back though, that is more of a concern to me.

 

[NoLongerN]

This fumble stat is a pretty illusive one to track down. The best that I could find is that Taylor had 16 fumbles on the year and lost 8 of those. First in the nation for fumbles and tied for first in fumbles lost.

Just off the top of my head I know 2 of those fumbles were in passing situations when he go hit while he was in a throwing motion and lost the ball. If you drop those 2 he's tied with Ameer and others for 6 lost on the year (Ameer had 8 total fumbles). That's one more than Braxton Miller and Marcus Mariota (both with 8 fumbles) the best mobile QBs I can think of other than Manziel, who I can't find stats on but I don't think he's turn it over much.

*I guess I forgot Robinson 6 total 3 lost for his short 2012 season, he's more of an interception machine though.

So in summary yes it's a problem, but it's really not something most other mobile QBs are immune from either. Ameer's stats are pretty high for a running back though, that is more of a concern to me.

Good stuff ZRod. The one exception I'd take from all that is that TM was a Junior and Ameer is younger. In addition, TM touches the ball more. I'm not down on TM at all ... just puzzled that he still hasn't figured that part out. He could be one of the greatest if only ... if only. Hopeful he can put it together for one season. Collectively, this whole team needs to clean up their junk ... then we will be in all our games and have the chance and not keep our D out there in tough spots.

 

[lo country]

This fumble stat is a pretty illusive one to track down. The best that I could find is that Taylor had 16 fumbles on the year and lost 8 of those. First in the nation for fumbles and tied for first in fumbles lost.

Just off the top of my head I know 2 of those fumbles were in passing situations when he go hit while he was in a throwing motion and lost the ball. If you drop those 2 he's tied with Ameer and others for 6 lost on the year (Ameer had 8 total fumbles). That's one more than Braxton Miller and Marcus Mariota (both with 8 fumbles) the best mobile QBs I can think of other than Manziel, who I can't find stats on but I don't think he turned it over much.

*I guess I forgot Robinson 6 total 3 lost for his short 2012 season, he's more of an interception machine though.

So in summary yes it's a problem, but it's really not something most other mobile QBs are immune from either. Ameer's stats are pretty high for a running back though, that is more of a concern to me.

Manziel is not in the top 100 for fumbles. The chart I found showed the lowest total to be on the list as 5. So I am ASSuming he had less than that.

 

[walksalone]

if you could answer that problem, you might be the most popular guy in the state of Nebraska...

Lol i hear ya, I just figured the collective brain trust that is HuskerBoard, would have this problem fixed in no time.

Trust me, if I had the answer, I'd have called the SID, screaming to the heavens, how I would fix the fumbling issue...

 

[ZRod]

I think Taylor just needs to focus on two things carry the ball higher and closer to his body (high and tight as the saying goes) and be more conscious of where he is and the action around him at the end of a play. I am curious what they count as a fumble because he has a tendency to fumble out of bounds when he's near the sideline and that may have inflated his number.

Ameer again needs to keep the ball high and tight, and probably just develop some more strength.

 

[Malth]

Taylor's fumbles are an issue, but IMO, they are the least of our issues. We score enough points to win games. Its just unfortunate the opponent was able to score more to defeat what our offense was able to do. Fumbles need to be cleaned up, then maybe we wouldn't have closer games, but I don't know one game this year Taylor actually costed us. Some may argue the Georgia game, but after Ameer's fumble, Taylor was just trying to put us back in the game by throwing. Throwing against a stingy Georgia secondary. If our DB's didn't have to be accountable for the run as much as they had to this year, you would have seen even a stronger/tougher secondary. Taylor has won us more games this year than costed us.

As for the OP's question, "but i wonder what it take to limit them?"

My closest guess is the further these guys mature, the less they will fumble. Our RB's and Kick Returner's are young. Taylor has no excuse, but its just Taylor and how he has been since day one. We were just lucky his RS Freshman year he was able to recover most of them.

TMart's turnovers are one of the top issues. He's spotting competing offenses with good field position and easy points on a regular basis. Your QB just can't turnover the ball on such a frequent basis if you want to be serious about competing with the big boys.

Yes, he has won us more games than he has cost, but he's still costing us games with this nonsense.