Ganz, Daniel, Brennan

[Pedro Guerrero]

Can we please stop calling Joe Ganz “mobile” and comparing him to Drew Brees? He is far from “mobile” compared to NFL players and the speed of that game. Maybe you could say he was “mobile” against the JV squads that we played last year but not against teams on the next level.

Just because Ganz and Brees are similar in size means absolutely squat and when people throw that out there I find it pretty funny. Ganz has no where near the tools that Brees has now or had when he was coming out of Purdue. Drew Brees was one of the Top 3 rated QB’s when he came out of college. He was Big Ten Player of Year and he won the Maxwell. Ganz wasn’t even Honorable Mention All Conference. He finished 4th in 1999 and 3rd in 2000 for the Heisman Trophy as well. So comparing Ganz coming out of college to Brees is laughable and a real reach.

The fact is Ganz was a solid QB for a semi-decent college football team. He has NO chance with the Skins and he will NEVER play in the NFL. The fact that he still doesn’t have a contract and didn’t receive an offer as soon as the draft was over speaks volumes to where he actually is as a player even if some NU fans don’t want to admit it. If you ask me “Golden Boy” will end up as a GA somewhere just like Zac Taylor unless he tries to stick at some lower level arena team but I would have to assume he doesn’t want to do that.

 

[fro daddy]

Huge difference is the speed and ablitity of they players in the NFL.

Just like how the wildcat formation was unstopable for 2 weeks then everyteam in the NFL game planed to stop it and it was no longer effective. A trick play here and there but no longer the 15-20 snaps that the Dolphin did the first few times. As for KC it worked for a few weeks. Then it quickly fell off. Its just like in college the really good teams can stop the spread. Well the NFL has the best of the best from all the teams. It is the same reason the option would never work as a full time offense. Yes you can trick a team with the option if you run it once in a great while. Just like you can with the wildcat or spread plays.

The reason the like um' big is because the small ones get broken. When a small LB is 240 and runs a 4.5 in the NFL that is quite different from college where most LBs play in the 230-220, or smaller range. DE's that are 300 pounds or close to it. Small, frail QB's dont last in the pros.

i disagree about it only working for a few weeks for KC.

the average PPG before they switched to a spread offense was 12.5 through 6 games.

after switching to the spread offense the average PPG was 21.6.

that is almost a 10 point average difference and it was sustained over an extra 4 games.

before moving to the spread KC averaged 123.16 yds passing.

after switching to the spread KC averaged 221.6 yds passing.

that is a gain of 100 yds per game passing by switching to the spread.

im not gonna calculate it but KC also averaged more rushing yards per game after switching to the spread.

you will not convince me that the spread will not work in the NFL because i have seen it work! size is also not quite the issue some make it out to be in the NFL, smaller qbs can typically move better and avoid the pressure so they do not typically get hit as often as the large standing target type qbs.

to prove that point even further drew brees measures in at 6'0" and 201 lbs. he has averaged 17 sacks a season over his career. Ben roethlisberger is considered a very mobile big man qb he is 6'5" and he weighs in at 241 lbs. he has averaged 39 sacks per season over his career.

ganz is almost identical in size to drew brees by the way.

i think i have proved my point...

Not really. Since you like stats...

KC's first 5 games with the "arrowspread"

avg'd 369 yrds a game, 124 of that rushing, and 22.8 pts per game from offence

KC's next 5 games with the "arrowspread"

Avg'd 310 yrds a game, 108 rushing and 16.2 pts per game offence.

Minus one Very large outburst against Miami, thier second half would have been. 264 total yrds, 90 rush, 12.5 pts per game offence.

The deal is if you look at the first 5 games the stats are all pretty simular. The last five all are simular as well with the exception of the miami game. Production fell across the board. The team struggled mightly to move the ball at times. How would I know. Because I attend most of the games and I have only missed one game on tv or in person since I was 12 years old. That is a pathetic streak that stretchs for 15 years and will reach 16 this season. I am not proud of it, infact it is sad, i know.

Any way that is a difference of -59 yrds a game, avg of 16 less yrd rushing and most importantly a TD less a game after teams learned how to shut it down. I will agree tht it was fun to watch when it was working though.

Sacks have a little to do with a QB, but more to do with an offensive line. Just to prove my point Kerry Collins was only sacked 8 times last year. Best in the NFL. BTW, he is 6'5, 245 pounds and I walk faster than he runs. But Ganz comparable to Brees?! newearth, I couldnt have said it better myself...

Just because Ganz and Brees are similar in size means absolutely squat and when people throw that out there I find it pretty funny. Ganz has no where near the tools that Brees has now or had when he was coming out of Purdue. Drew Brees was one of the Top 3 rated QB’s when he came out of college. He was Big Ten Player of Year and he won the Maxwell. Ganz wasn’t even Honorable Mention All Conference. He finished 4th in 1999 and 3rd in 2000 for the Heisman Trophy as well. So comparing Ganz coming out of college to Brees is laughable and a real reach.

anyway I never said anything about the size of a QB and avoiding sacks. I was speaking about a physical pounding that QBs take. All I said was the thought process is "the bigger, the better".

B-rent, I agree you can use the tendencies of an offence. You can mix in some plays to keep a team honest. You can even pull out the tricks and gadgets. But a true spread offense, simular to Missouri, Texas Tech & Urban Meyers Utah teams, will not work. We may just have to agree to differ on this one,,,

 

[fro daddy]

double your pleasure, double your fun. with a double post.

 

[husker B-rent]

Can we please stop calling Joe Ganz “mobile” and comparing him to Drew Brees? He is far from “mobile” compared to NFL players and the speed of that game. Maybe you could say he was “mobile” against the JV squads that we played last year but not against teams on the next level.

Just because Ganz and Brees are similar in size means absolutely squat and when people throw that out there I find it pretty funny. Ganz has no where near the tools that Brees has now or had when he was coming out of Purdue. Drew Brees was one of the Top 3 rated QB’s when he came out of college. He was Big Ten Player of Year and he won the Maxwell. Ganz wasn’t even Honorable Mention All Conference. He finished 4th in 1999 and 3rd in 2000 for the Heisman Trophy as well. So comparing Ganz coming out of college to Brees is laughable and a real reach.

The fact is Ganz was a solid QB for a semi-decent college football team. He has NO chance with the Skins and he will NEVER play in the NFL. The fact that he still doesn’t have a contract and didn’t receive an offer as soon as the draft was over speaks volumes to where he actually is as a player even if some NU fans don’t want to admit it. If you ask me “Golden Boy” will end up as a GA somewhere just like Zac Taylor unless he tries to stick at some lower level arena team but I would have to assume he doesn’t want to do that.

i didnt say he was as mobile as dre brees, i said that smaller qbs are more mobile than huge qbs.

the reason i said they are similar in size is because we were talking about how much size matters in the NFL.

i would also say that the fact that he is still competing with chace daniel whom does have a contract speaks much greater volumes than him not getting a contract in the first place....

also, accolades do not make you a great qb. playing the game however will.

 

[fro daddy]

i would also say that the fact that he is still competing with chace daniel whom does have a contract speaks much greater volumes than him not getting a contract in the first place....

Maybe i have totally missed something over the past few days. But Joe was given an opportunity to come to a rookie minicamp and try out. He, to my knowledge was not offered a contract. Meaning, he didnt make the team. He was not invited to anyother OTA's, minicamps or to Training camp (which he would need a contract to do). So there is, infact no competition. He isnt competing with anyone for anything. He is not a member of any team. So what does it speak volumes too? I guess I am just confused about all this Ganz and the Redskins talk. Its a non issue until he actually signs a contract with a team, if that ever even happens.

If he does, GOOD FOR HIM. I wish him no ill will. I dont sit in my basement hoping nobody signs him. I wish him nothing but the best.

And just so we clear the air on this. I expect Daniel to be cut once they start cutting WRs and TEs in training camp. Without NFL Europe, I would be very surprised if Washington kept him, or even put him on the practice squad.

 

[tattooedhusker]

Sometimes I wonder if Ganz punched Newearth's mother

 

[Pedro Guerrero]

Sometimes I wonder if Ganz punched Newearth's mother

Nope, I just don’t get the boners, man crushes, starry eyes or whatever you want to call it, that some on here have for him. He is what he is, which is a guy that was a decent College QB that played well for NU but really didn’t help NU beat anyone worth a crap. Also I can’t stand the fact that some won’t accept it that he won’t make a NFL roster or how Bo said he never singles out individuals but always smacked a big fat one on Ganz backside after every game.

Whatever though, I hope he is very successful in whatever he does that being said I don’t believe that involves playing in the NFL.

 

[Overland Park Husker]

Not really. Since you like stats...

KC's first 5 games with the "arrowspread"

avg'd 369 yrds a game, 124 of that rushing, and 22.8 pts per game from offence

KC's next 5 games with the "arrowspread"

Avg'd 310 yrds a game, 108 rushing and 16.2 pts per game offence.

Minus one Very large outburst against Miami, thier second half would have been. 264 total yrds, 90 rush, 12.5 pts per game offence.

The deal is if you look at the first 5 games the stats are all pretty simular. The last five all are simular as well with the exception of the miami game. Production fell across the board. The team struggled mightly to move the ball at times. How would I know. Because I attend most of the games and I have only missed one game on tv or in person since I was 12 years old. That is a pathetic streak that stretchs for 15 years and will reach 16 this season. I am not proud of it, infact it is sad, i know.

Any way that is a difference of -59 yrds a game, avg of 16 less yrd rushing and most importantly a TD less a game after teams learned how to shut it down. I will agree tht it was fun to watch when it was working though.

:yeah KC was fun to watch for the first few games they ran the spread. After that, their offense seemingly disappeared. It could've been due to a lack of talent, but I think the speed in the NFL is too much for the spread. You could throw some spread wrinkles in, but a team that runs it full time will be in trouble. You think o-lines could take the giant spreads that Tech and Mizzou uses and not get burned?

Also, Ganz and Daniels will both be cut from the 'Skins.

 

[Huskers Forever]

Sometimes I wonder if Ganz punched Newearth's mother

Bo said he never singles out individuals but always smacked a big fat one on Ganz backside after every game.

What are you talking about? Show me the quote where Bo says that. He will never throw one player under the bus in the media, but he will rip someone a new one when they screw up on the sideline, as well as give players plenty of praise when they do well. You are way off base with that one.

Bo is a players coach, and always will be. He knows just the right balance of constructive criticism and positive feedback.

 

[Alex 4.0]

:snacks:

newearth ftw

 

[nhuskers5]

Brennan for sure #3...Then ganz then daniel.

 

[husker B-rent]

i would also say that the fact that he is still competing with chace daniel whom does have a contract speaks much greater volumes than him not getting a contract in the first place....

Maybe i have totally missed something over the past few days. But Joe was given an opportunity to come to a rookie minicamp and try out. He, to my knowledge was not offered a contract. Meaning, he didnt make the team. He was not invited to anyother OTA's, minicamps or to Training camp (which he would need a contract to do). So there is, infact no competition. He isnt competing with anyone for anything. He is not a member of any team. So what does it speak volumes too? I guess I am just confused about all this Ganz and the Redskins talk. Its a non issue until he actually signs a contract with a team, if that ever even happens.

If he does, GOOD FOR HIM. I wish him no ill will. I dont sit in my basement hoping nobody signs him. I wish him nothing but the best.

And just so we clear the air on this. I expect Daniel to be cut once they start cutting WRs and TEs in training camp. Without NFL Europe, I would be very surprised if Washington kept him, or even put him on the practice squad.

he has not signed a contract (and i never said he did...). however, according to many redskins publications he is still competing with daniel for the 4th practice squad spot.

 

[husker B-rent]

Huge difference is the speed and ablitity of they players in the NFL.

Just like how the wildcat formation was unstopable for 2 weeks then everyteam in the NFL game planed to stop it and it was no longer effective. A trick play here and there but no longer the 15-20 snaps that the Dolphin did the first few times. As for KC it worked for a few weeks. Then it quickly fell off. Its just like in college the really good teams can stop the spread. Well the NFL has the best of the best from all the teams. It is the same reason the option would never work as a full time offense. Yes you can trick a team with the option if you run it once in a great while. Just like you can with the wildcat or spread plays.

The reason the like um' big is because the small ones get broken. When a small LB is 240 and runs a 4.5 in the NFL that is quite different from college where most LBs play in the 230-220, or smaller range. DE's that are 300 pounds or close to it. Small, frail QB's dont last in the pros.

i disagree about it only working for a few weeks for KC.

the average PPG before they switched to a spread offense was 12.5 through 6 games.

after switching to the spread offense the average PPG was 21.6.

that is almost a 10 point average difference and it was sustained over an extra 4 games.

before moving to the spread KC averaged 123.16 yds passing.

after switching to the spread KC averaged 221.6 yds passing.

that is a gain of 100 yds per game passing by switching to the spread.

im not gonna calculate it but KC also averaged more rushing yards per game after switching to the spread.

you will not convince me that the spread will not work in the NFL because i have seen it work! size is also not quite the issue some make it out to be in the NFL, smaller qbs can typically move better and avoid the pressure so they do not typically get hit as often as the large standing target type qbs.

to prove that point even further drew brees measures in at 6'0" and 201 lbs. he has averaged 17 sacks a season over his career. Ben roethlisberger is considered a very mobile big man qb he is 6'5" and he weighs in at 241 lbs. he has averaged 39 sacks per season over his career.

ganz is almost identical in size to drew brees by the way.

i think i have proved my point...

Not really. Since you like stats...

KC's first 5 games with the "arrowspread"

avg'd 369 yrds a game, 124 of that rushing, and 22.8 pts per game from offence

KC's next 5 games with the "arrowspread"

Avg'd 310 yrds a game, 108 rushing and 16.2 pts per game offence.

Minus one Very large outburst against Miami, thier second half would have been. 264 total yrds, 90 rush, 12.5 pts per game offence.

The deal is if you look at the first 5 games the stats are all pretty simular. The last five all are simular as well with the exception of the miami game. Production fell across the board. The team struggled mightly to move the ball at times. How would I know. Because I attend most of the games and I have only missed one game on tv or in person since I was 12 years old. That is a pathetic streak that stretchs for 15 years and will reach 16 this season. I am not proud of it, infact it is sad, i know.

Any way that is a difference of -59 yrds a game, avg of 16 less yrd rushing and most importantly a TD less a game after teams learned how to shut it down. I will agree tht it was fun to watch when it was working though.

Sacks have a little to do with a QB, but more to do with an offensive line. Just to prove my point Kerry Collins was only sacked 8 times last year. Best in the NFL. BTW, he is 6'5, 245 pounds and I walk faster than he runs. But Ganz comparable to Brees?! newearth, I couldnt have said it better myself...

Just because Ganz and Brees are similar in size means absolutely squat and when people throw that out there I find it pretty funny. Ganz has no where near the tools that Brees has now or had when he was coming out of Purdue. Drew Brees was one of the Top 3 rated QB’s when he came out of college. He was Big Ten Player of Year and he won the Maxwell. Ganz wasn’t even Honorable Mention All Conference. He finished 4th in 1999 and 3rd in 2000 for the Heisman Trophy as well. So comparing Ganz coming out of college to Brees is laughable and a real reach.

anyway I never said anything about the size of a QB and avoiding sacks. I was speaking about a physical pounding that QBs take. All I said was the thought process is "the bigger, the better".

B-rent, I agree you can use the tendencies of an offence. You can mix in some plays to keep a team honest. You can even pull out the tricks and gadgets. But a true spread offense, simular to Missouri, Texas Tech & Urban Meyers Utah teams, will not work. We may just have to agree to differ on this one,,,

while i understand what you are saying while disagreeing, i must then ask, "what about the patriots?". they also run a primarily spread offense. i dont watch them but according to what is below and a few other articles they run a spread offense most of the time.

this comes from scout:

9) New England Patriots: The return of a healthy Tom Brady will help, but the offensive line was a bit inconsistent last season. Since they run a spread offense, can Joey Galloway give them quality snaps at 37 years old? The secondary, which was poor last season, should improve with the additions at cornerback and safety. But failing to sign Jason Taylor could come back to haunt them. Can they find a consistent pass rush?

http://profootball.scout.com/2/864979.html

 

[fro daddy]

i would also say that the fact that he is still competing with chace daniel whom does have a contract speaks much greater volumes than him not getting a contract in the first place....

Maybe i have totally missed something over the past few days. But Joe was given an opportunity to come to a rookie minicamp and try out. He, to my knowledge was not offered a contract. Meaning, he didnt make the team. He was not invited to anyother OTA's, minicamps or to Training camp (which he would need a contract to do). So there is, infact no competition. He isnt competing with anyone for anything. He is not a member of any team. So what does it speak volumes too? I guess I am just confused about all this Ganz and the Redskins talk. Its a non issue until he actually signs a contract with a team, if that ever even happens.

If he does, GOOD FOR HIM. I wish him no ill will. I dont sit in my basement hoping nobody signs him. I wish him nothing but the best.

And just so we clear the air on this. I expect Daniel to be cut once they start cutting WRs and TEs in training camp. Without NFL Europe, I would be very surprised if Washington kept him, or even put him on the practice squad.

he has not signed a contract (and i never said he did...). however, according to many redskins publications he is still competing with daniel for the 4th practice squad spot.

Just curious, where did you find that. I have looked for info on the official website, as well as the blog attacked to it and I havent seen anything since the tryout. I have been looking, but with no luck.

 

[fro daddy]

9) New England Patriots: The return of a healthy Tom Brady will help, but the offensive line was a bit inconsistent last season. Since they run a spread offense, can Joey Galloway give them quality snaps at 37 years old? The secondary, which was poor last season, should improve with the additions at cornerback and safety. But failing to sign Jason Taylor could come back to haunt them. Can they find a consistent pass rush? 

http://profootball.scout.com/2/864979.html

 

From what I have seen, NE does not run the spread. They did take about 70% of their snaps from shotgun 2 years ago. And I believe over 50% this last year. But we all know that shotgun does not equal spread, or equal run and shoot. I cant recall they ever ran any read option, or read zone running plays. I dont know though. When I think spread I think TT, MU, old Utah & Florida. I see it as the wide split lines, the wr's and te's from sideline to sideline, the read zone running plays, slip screens, so on and so on. NE from what I have seen does none of that. They do take a lot of shotgun snaps, but a lot of team have started doing that. It gives the QB a advantage of seeing the D line up and that extra second or two in the pocket.

 

Thats a hard one to answer really B-rent. I guess it boils down to what your/the writers idea of the spread is.

 

Anyway, I think we can all agree that the NFL is a copy cat league. They see what works, they do it until it doesnt then they find the next trend. It cycles back around. I think we both agree that running some plays or sets will work. (and its fun to watch) but I dont think a team could line up with MU's playbook and do well in a full season. Maybe i'm just to old fashion.