Ganz, Daniel, Brennan

[CENTEXHUSKER]

i would also say that the fact that he is still competing with chace daniel whom does have a contract speaks much greater volumes than him not getting a contract in the first place....

Maybe i have totally missed something over the past few days. But Joe was given an opportunity to come to a rookie minicamp and try out. He, to my knowledge was not offered a contract. Meaning, he didnt make the team. He was not invited to anyother OTA's, minicamps or to Training camp (which he would need a contract to do). So there is, infact no competition. He isnt competing with anyone for anything. He is not a member of any team. So what does it speak volumes too? I guess I am just confused about all this Ganz and the Redskins talk. Its a non issue until he actually signs a contract with a team, if that ever even happens.

If he does, GOOD FOR HIM. I wish him no ill will. I dont sit in my basement hoping nobody signs him. I wish him nothing but the best.

And just so we clear the air on this. I expect Daniel to be cut once they start cutting WRs and TEs in training camp. Without NFL Europe, I would be very surprised if Washington kept him, or even put him on the practice squad.

he has not signed a contract (and i never said he did...). however, according to many redskins publications he is still competing with daniel for the 4th practice squad spot.

Just curious, where did you find that. I have looked for info on the official website, as well as the blog attacked to it and I havent seen anything since the tryout. I have been looking, but with no luck.

You can see if and when Ganz gets cut here Link

 

[Pedro Guerrero]

You can see if and when Ganz gets cut here Link

Maybe I missed something but his name isn’t listed on there at all. :dunno Doesn’t that list only affect people that have actually signed contracts? Which is something that I believe Ganz hasn’t done yet?

Keith Eloi from UNO is on there though.

 

[CENTEXHUSKER]

You can see if and when Ganz gets cut here Link

Maybe I missed something but his name isn’t listed on there at all. :dunno Doesn’t that list only affect people that have actually signed contracts? Which is something that I believe Ganz hasn’t done yet?

Keith Eloi from UNO is on there though.

Good point, I assumed that the players on the list that were cut were all players, not just the ones with contracts.

 

[HuskerJen]

Can we please stop calling Joe Ganz “mobile” and comparing him to Drew Brees? He is far from “mobile” compared to NFL players and the speed of that game. Maybe you could say he was “mobile” against the JV squads that we played last year but not against teams on the next level.

Just because Ganz and Brees are similar in size means absolutely squat and when people throw that out there I find it pretty funny. Ganz has no where near the tools that Brees has now or had when he was coming out of Purdue. Drew Brees was one of the Top 3 rated QB’s when he came out of college. He was Big Ten Player of Year and he won the Maxwell. Ganz wasn’t even Honorable Mention All Conference. He finished 4th in 1999 and 3rd in 2000 for the Heisman Trophy as well. So comparing Ganz coming out of college to Brees is laughable and a real reach.

The fact is Ganz was a solid QB for a semi-decent college football team. He has NO chance with the Skins and he will NEVER play in the NFL. The fact that he still doesn’t have a contract and didn’t receive an offer as soon as the draft was over speaks volumes to where he actually is as a player even if some NU fans don’t want to admit it. If you ask me “Golden Boy” will end up as a GA somewhere just like Zac Taylor unless he tries to stick at some lower level arena team but I would have to assume he doesn’t want to do that.

The part I put into red....

As opposed to the fat-arsed TE from KSUcks who was a mediocre QB on a terrible college football team?

The NFL absolutely sucks because the directors of personnel, scouts, coaches, etc would rather have a 6'5" 250 pound dim-witted, marginally talented, head case like freeman than an actual play-maker.

freeman will never amount to anything in the nfl. Prediction: Three years from now, Tampa Bay will have traded freeman away because he sucks.

And the fact that there are "Husker" fans out there who are so pro freeman and anti-Ganz is mind-boggling.

 

[caveman99]

i would also say that the fact that he is still competing with chace daniel whom does have a contract speaks much greater volumes than him not getting a contract in the first place....

Maybe i have totally missed something over the past few days. But Joe was given an opportunity to come to a rookie minicamp and try out. He, to my knowledge was not offered a contract. Meaning, he didnt make the team. He was not invited to anyother OTA's, minicamps or to Training camp (which he would need a contract to do). So there is, infact no competition. He isnt competing with anyone for anything. He is not a member of any team. So what does it speak volumes too? I guess I am just confused about all this Ganz and the Redskins talk. Its a non issue until he actually signs a contract with a team, if that ever even happens.

If he does, GOOD FOR HIM. I wish him no ill will. I dont sit in my basement hoping nobody signs him. I wish him nothing but the best.

And just so we clear the air on this. I expect Daniel to be cut once they start cutting WRs and TEs in training camp. Without NFL Europe, I would be very surprised if Washington kept him, or even put him on the practice squad.

he has not signed a contract (and i never said he did...). however, according to many redskins publications he is still competing with daniel for the 4th practice squad spot.

Just curious, where did you find that. I have looked for info on the official website, as well as the blog attacked to it and I havent seen anything since the tryout. I have been looking, but with no luck.

Fro, here is the link about Ganz not getting a contract from the Redskins. Washington Post. As far as making it, well he still isn't on the roster: Redskins Roster

 

[fro daddy]

thanks for the post link Caveman.

 

[Pedro Guerrero]

The part I put into red....

As opposed to the fat-arsed TE from KSUcks who was a mediocre QB on a terrible college football team?

The NFL absolutely sucks because the directors of personnel, scouts, coaches, etc would rather have a 6'5" 250 pound dim-witted, marginally talented, head case like freeman than an actual play-maker.

freeman will never amount to anything in the nfl. Prediction: Three years from now, Tampa Bay will have traded freeman away because he sucks.

And the fact that there are "Husker" fans out there who are so pro freeman and anti-Ganz is mind-boggling.

Who is Pro-Freeman? What makes someone fall into that camp? Am I one because I don’t think Ganz has ANY chance of making a NFL team? If that is the case then I want to be considered Pro-Nate Davis or Pro-Rhett Bomar. I’m Pro-Ganz to but that doesn’t mean I have to be “Ra-Ra” and kooky about his chances.

It doesn’t matter if everyone in the Husker Nation thinks Joey-Boy should be on a NFL team instead of Freeman. The fact is Freeman is on one and will get at least 3 years on one in which he will be making bank while Ganz is not playing football professionally at all (Omaha Beef or Iowa Blackhawks don’t count). The Bucs won’t trade Freeman until his initial contract is almost up, if they do at all, that is just the nature of being a first round draft pick, especially a QB.

Everybody on here can piss and moan about how the NFL executives don’t know “anything” about football because a 1 year starter who was maybe the 6th best QB in his own conference wasn’t drafted or hasn’t even signed a contract. But at the end of the day the facts are that the Bucs see something in Freeman or any of the other teams see something in any of the other QBs that got picked or signed that they don’t see in Ganz. If Ganz was the QB for any other team in America nobody would care, all you have to do is look at Graham Harrell because he doesn’t have a team yet and Ganz wasn’t as good as him. Plus he was better then Freeman yet nobody around here is crying foul over that one.

 

[RedDenver]

From what I have seen, NE does not run the spread. They did take about 70% of their snaps from shotgun 2 years ago. And I believe over 50% this last year. But we all know that shotgun does not equal spread, or equal run and shoot. I cant recall they ever ran any read option, or read zone running plays. I dont know though. When I think spread I think TT, MU, old Utah & Florida. I see it as the wide split lines, the wr's and te's from sideline to sideline, the read zone running plays, slip screens, so on and so on. NE from what I have seen does none of that. They do take a lot of shotgun snaps, but a lot of team have started doing that. It gives the QB a advantage of seeing the D line up and that extra second or two in the pocket.

I think the definition of the "spread offense" is fairly general. You don't have to run the ball or have read-option to run a spread offense. TTech runs a spread offense but mostly pass with few runs. New England runs the ball more, but they usually have 3-5 guys split out wide.

 

[dawhuskerkc]

Huge difference is the speed and ablitity of they players in the NFL.

Just like how the wildcat formation was unstopable for 2 weeks then everyteam in the NFL game planed to stop it and it was no longer effective. A trick play here and there but no longer the 15-20 snaps that the Dolphin did the first few times. As for KC it worked for a few weeks. Then it quickly fell off. Its just like in college the really good teams can stop the spread. Well the NFL has the best of the best from all the teams. It is the same reason the option would never work as a full time offense. Yes you can trick a team with the option if you run it once in a great while. Just like you can with the wildcat or spread plays.

The reason the like um' big is because the small ones get broken. When a small LB is 240 and runs a 4.5 in the NFL that is quite different from college where most LBs play in the 230-220, or smaller range. DE's that are 300 pounds or close to it. Small, frail QB's dont last in the pros.

i disagree about it only working for a few weeks for KC.

the average PPG before they switched to a spread offense was 12.5 through 6 games.

after switching to the spread offense the average PPG was 21.6.

that is almost a 10 point average difference and it was sustained over an extra 4 games.

before moving to the spread KC averaged 123.16 yds passing.

after switching to the spread KC averaged 221.6 yds passing.

that is a gain of 100 yds per game passing by switching to the spread.

im not gonna calculate it but KC also averaged more rushing yards per game after switching to the spread.

you will not convince me that the spread will not work in the NFL because i have seen it work! size is also not quite the issue some make it out to be in the NFL, smaller qbs can typically move better and avoid the pressure so they do not typically get hit as often as the large standing target type qbs.

to prove that point even further drew brees measures in at 6'0" and 201 lbs. he has averaged 17 sacks a season over his career. Ben roethlisberger is considered a very mobile big man qb he is 6'5" and he weighs in at 241 lbs. he has averaged 39 sacks per season over his career.

ganz is almost identical in size to drew brees by the way.

i think i have proved my point...

HBR;

You have demonstrated your point well. KC did as you said, and looked fairly good at times doing it. I agree with you about the spread in the NFL, it can work and if it were given the same amount of time to manage talent into it, as many of the other systems require.....it would be as legitimate as any other offense.

counter programming a spread that has been coached up with experinced players is no easy task, especially if you dont see it every week. its a given that on any given sunday a defense or offense has the upper hand against a given opponent, this is without regard to generalities about systems being run.

 

[trouble]

Sometimes I wonder if Ganz punched Newearth's mother

Nope, I just don’t get the boners, man crushes, starry eyes or whatever you want to call it, that some on here have for him. He is what he is, which is a guy that was a decent College QB that played well for NU but really didn’t help NU beat anyone worth a crap. Also I can’t stand the fact that some won’t accept it that he won’t make a NFL roster or how Bo said he never singles out individuals but always smacked a big fat one on Ganz backside after every game.

Whatever though, I hope he is very successful in whatever he does that being said I don’t believe that involves playing in the NFL.

I agree with newearth. I don't believe Ganz will make it in the NFL. He wasn't really anything "spectacular", but he worked for us for what we needed at the time. Good luck to him in everything, I just don't think he has the tools to be an NFL QB

 

[In the Deed the Glory]

Sometimes I wonder if Ganz punched Newearth's mother

Nope, I just don’t get the boners, man crushes, starry eyes or whatever you want to call it, that some on here have for him. He is what he is, which is a guy that was a decent College QB that played well for NU but really didn’t help NU beat anyone worth a crap. Also I can’t stand the fact that some won’t accept it that he won’t make a NFL roster or how Bo said he never singles out individuals but always smacked a big fat one on Ganz backside after every game.

Whatever though, I hope he is very successful in whatever he does that being said I don’t believe that involves playing in the NFL.

I agree with newearth. I don't believe Ganz will make it in the NFL. He wasn't really anything "spectacular", but he worked for us for what we needed at the time. Good luck to him in everything, I just don't think he has the tools to be an NFL QB

:boxosoap

Here is the deal guys, a lot of college QBs have a good season. Many throughout last year had fantastic years and led their team to victory. In a college football team, leadership is huge. It is great to have your QB lead your team, and it can make up for a lack of (insert talent deficiency here) on a college field. However, when you face a truly talented team you must have talent at QB to win. In Joe's case, he doesn't have elite arm strength. Matter of fact he doesn't even have good arm strength. He really struggles on some of his decision making/accuracy at points. Now only having one of those two problems would not be a death sentence, but having both is a problem.

Elite arm strength can make up for making bad decisions/accuracy problems because: 1) it allows you to force passes through tight windows and 2) it opens up the playbook for the deep balls that take advantage of the NFL's love affair with the cover 2. This is a classic example of a player like Brett Favre, he might be the greatest QB of all time because he has probably the strongest arm of any QB to ever play.

Great decision making/accuracy can make up for a lack of arm strength for obvious reasons. All NFL plays that are drawn up consist of at least one or two "check with me" options and a check down after the snap. The problem is that a QB can have great decisions on every play in a game but 2, and those 2 can and will lose you the game (especially if it is a pick 6, or in the case of most NFL games it negates a precious scoring opportunity. I mean, lets be honest, you aren't going to stop teams in the NFL all game so you must make sure you win the scoring race to be a leg up on your opponent).

THE NFL IS NOT COLLEGE FOOTBALL. You really think we all know more than a bunch of people that are paid to scout players that the teams depend on to win, and in turn keep the stands full? I find it extremely laughable that any one would think they are a better judge of talent than an NFL team. Do they reach sometimes to find a diamond in the rough? Abso-frickin'-lutely they do. When they do find that project that pans out, they are a damn genius. When it doesn't work out the player is a bust and they move on. You generally don't see teams draft a project two years in a row. Here's the deal folks, THAT TEAM KNOWS WHEN A PLAYER MIGHT NOT MAKE IT! They draft with that in mind, it is part of the formula they all use to evaluate if the reach in the draft (risk) is worth the potential payoff of that investment (reward). ****SIDE NOTE**** if anyone here thinks the Redskins don't know exactly what time of day and where whatever CG did happened, you are sadly mistaken. They know and they decided the risk was worth the reward relative to his position in the draft.

Now, do they make mistakes? Yes they do. Sometimes no matter how gifted a player is, the organization finds out that without someone holding their new "star's" hand they cannot succeed. An NFL team is not going to hold your hand and baby you along. Only the strong survive, if you can't cut it someone else is waiting that can cut it and wants that money they will pay you. They are already in that film room, waiting for their chance.

Other times you find out that maybe that person's competition wasn't that good. You find out that a good college coach can compensate for talent flaws by game planning against weaker parts of the opposition. You can't do that in the NFL, all the players that contribute are absolutely fantastic football players.

I don't mean to offend anybody by this, but I do happen to be quite familiar with this process and wanted everyone to get the facts about how it works.

Now having said all of this, I will say I did enjoy watching Joe Ganz and it says a lot that he got a tryout given his lack of NFL physical talent. Sometimes guys surprise you, I just don't think we'll see Joe making an NFL roster anytime soon.

I do wish him the best in whatever he decides to do.

:rant

 

[Pedro Guerrero]

:yeah In the Deed the Glory, nice post. :thumbs :clap

 

[husker B-rent]

so you guys are saying that a qb has to have great measurables to play in the NFL? thats laughable!

im sorry but if you mold your team around a qb instead of molding your qb around your team you can win with a qb who does not have "elite size".

why do you think NU was so successful throughout the years? a big part of that was the fact that we ran an offense that was not seen every week. the other teams had to practice a different way just to play us.

its the same in the NFL, they practice the same every week. if someone came in and instituted a spread offense on their team and were given time to get the players needed to operate it, teams would have to practice differently that week of the year because they do not see it every week.

the reason that NFL scouts are still going after the horrible college qbs such as freeman is because they are scared of change. im not claiming to be an NFL scout, i think differently than an NFL scout.

give it time and you will see teams running primarily spread offenses in the NFL and they will be putting up BIG numbers fast.

 

[trouble]

so you guys are saying that a qb has to have great measurables to play in the NFL? thats laughable!

im sorry but if you mold your team around a qb instead of molding your qb around your team you can win with a qb who does not have "elite size".

why do you think NU was so successful throughout the years? a big part of that was the fact that we ran an offense that was not seen every week. the other teams had to practice a different way just to play us.

its the same in the NFL, they practice the same every week. if someone came in and instituted a spread offense on their team and were given time to get the players needed to operate it, teams would have to practice differently that week of the year because they do not see it every week.

the reason that NFL scouts are still going after the horrible college qbs such as freeman is because they are scared of change. im not claiming to be an NFL scout, i think differently than an NFL scout.

give it time and you will see teams running primarily spread offenses in the NFL and they will be putting up BIG numbers fast.

The spread offense will never gain a big following in the NFL. Just won't. And when you say

:so you guys are saying that a qb has to have great measurables to play in the NFL? thats laughable!

im sorry but if you mold your team around a qb instead of molding your qb around your team you can win with a qb who does not have "elite size". :

As Deed said, a QB does not NEED elite size, but he does need good arm strength, accuracy and decision making. Some QBs DO NOT HAVE THAT. Ganz does NOT have great arm strength or accuracy, and for that reason he will not make rosters. If a QB has good accuracy and arm strength but only 6ft tall, sure they may make a roster and play(ex: Drew Brees). You have to have at least one. Ganz doesnt have either.

And don't get me wrong, I think Freeman will be a bust. He does have the measurables, but he doesn't have the mind or mental strength to compete.

 

[husker B-rent]

we are just gonna have to agree to disagree then.

i like you do not believe that ganz will be a starter in the NFL...ever. however, i still say that to say that he has no chance to make a roster for a couple years (be it 3rd string or practice squad) is laughable. i think him getting in for a tryout after they had already signed daniel really says a lot. it shows that they know they are paying this guy but maybe they didnt get the best guy for the job....