Han Solo & the 12-parsec Kessel Run

Actually, in the original that scene didn't make the cut, and was filmed with a stand-in actor. Jabba changed again in 2004:

260px-Ataleoftwohutts.jpg


I had to look this up though. I believe the first one I saw as a kid would have been the 1997 release.

The CGI is pretty crappy, though. I wish they would mess with the movie less. Maybe upgrade a few of the visuals, but in a sensible way, and keep the film itself intact.

 
zoogies said:
Actually, in the original that scene didn't make the cut, and was filmed with a stand-in actor. Jabba changed again in 2004:

260px-Ataleoftwohutts.jpg


I had to look this up though. I believe the first one I saw as a kid would have been the 1997 release.

The CGI is pretty crappy, though. I wish they would mess with the movie less. Maybe upgrade a few of the visuals, but in a sensible way, and keep the film itself intact.
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Must be getting old. My memory is failing me.

 
Junior said:
zoogies said:
Actually, in the original that scene didn't make the cut, and was filmed with a stand-in actor. Jabba changed again in 2004:

260px-Ataleoftwohutts.jpg


I had to look this up though. I believe the first one I saw as a kid would have been the 1997 release.

The CGI is pretty crappy, though. I wish they would mess with the movie less. Maybe upgrade a few of the visuals, but in a sensible way, and keep the film itself intact.
Click to expand...

Must be getting old. My memory is failing me.
Click to expand...
Or its a Jedi mind trick - "These are not the memories you are searching for"

 
knapplc said:
A parsec is a measurement of distance derived from a right triangle projected out from the solar system, with the smallest axis equivalent to the Earth's distance from the Sun (~93 million miles), or, one Astronomical Unit. Based on that number, a parsec is about 3.26 light years. A parsec is an Earthly measurement, but sounded futuristic enough that George Lucas used it in his 1977 space drama.
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Devil's Advocate - and possible ignorant - question:

Is this argument based basically on the assumption that the term "parsec" has the same definition in the Star Wars universe as it does in ours? I've heard it over the years but it seems to me to be a stretch to try to make the dialog work as we understand it. Luke had never even heard of the Falcon and had never been off the planet. Yet for this explanation to make any sense, it requires a deep explanation of inter-stellar physics and astronomy. It is obviously an achievement that Han is proud of but it would only add confusion to someone who has probably never even heard the term, let alone heard a distance used to describe a time.

It's entirely possibly that in Han's bravado he never bothered to consider any of that but it's always seemed contrived to me. Would make much more sense if a parsec was a unit of time in the Star Wars universe. Occam's Razor and all that.

 
Completely irrelevant to my point...apparently I need to explain further.

The fact that Luke has never been off the planet means nothing. He's obviously interested in interstellar events and space travel, as evidenced by the dialogue establishing his character early in the movie. The Kessel Run is not some big secret that nobody knows about - it would be well known and the concept of smuggling runs and sticking it to the Empire would be idolized by many, especially someone like Luke. So it's well within reasonable logic that he would know some details about the Kessel Run, including how far a normal trip would be and how much the faster (more idolized) smugglers could shave off it.

So now on to the term "parsec." Are we to believe the common language in a different galaxy is somehow magically English? Oh wait, if it's watched in Germany, it magically becomes German with humanoids no longer having the same mouth movement to word sync? Wait, are these people even human?? WTH is going on, NONE OF THIS IS POSSIBLE, OMGWTFBBQ.

Movies require a certain amount of disbelief suspension in order to function properly. Part of that includes known terms that are being used in a familiar fashion, even if they would carry a totally different meaning in the movie universe - like parsec. Suspend disbelief.

So we've established that the term is completely valid within framework of disbelief suspension required for just about any movie to function. We've also discovered that the movie establishes Luke's interest in interstellar events and space travel (If you don't believe me or remember, go watch the movie again, it's not hard to pick up on), and would probably know about the Kessel Run and potentially even idolize some of the people sticking it to the Empire in that way (bad Empire, space travel, danger, adventure, doing what you want when you want, not being stuck on a moisture farm, etc...not hard to connect those dots, either).

Any other questions?

 
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EbylHusker said:
Completely irrelevant to my point...apparently I need to explain further.

The fact that Luke has never been off the planet means nothing. He's obviously interested in interstellar events and space travel, as evidenced by the dialogue establishing his character early in the movie. The Kessel Run is not some big secret that nobody knows about - it would be well known and the concept of smuggling runs and sticking it to the Empire would be idolized by many, especially someone like Luke. So it's well within reasonable logic that he would know some details about the Kessel Run, including how far a normal trip would be and how much the faster (more idolized) smugglers could shave off it.

So now on to the term "parsec." Are we to believe the common language in a different galaxy is somehow magically English? Oh wait, if it's watched in Germany, it magically becomes German with humanoids no longer having the same mouth movement to word sync? Wait, are these people even human?? WTH is going on, NONE OF THIS IS POSSIBLE, OMGWTFBBQ.

Movies require a certain amount of disbelief suspension in order to function properly. Part of that includes known terms that are being used in a familiar fashion, even if they would carry a totally different meaning in the movie universe - like parsec. Suspend disbelief.

So we've established that the term is completely valid within framework of disbelief suspension required for just about any movie to function. We've also discovered that the movie establishes Luke's interest in interstellar events and space travel (If you don't believe me or remember, go watch the movie again, it's not hard to pick up on), and would probably know about the Kessel Run and potentially even idolize some of the people sticking it to the Empire in that way (bad Empire, space travel, danger, adventure, doing what you want when you want, not being stuck on a moisture farm, etc...not hard to connect those dots, either).

Any other questions?
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So you're basing that on the fact that he could be interested in a famous smuggling route but has no knowledge of the ship that holds the record for it's fastest transit. That would seem to be an interesting nugget when discussing a route know for a specific purpose.

Basically your making a lot of assumptions to justify your assumption.

 
It would. It's also a science fiction movie that has a lot of holes in it. The fact remains that a parsec is a measure of distance and was used in that fashion for the movie. There really shouldn't be a discussion here. It's a simple thing. As always, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim...in this case, you playing devil's advocate. If you've got some proof that parsec is not used in that fashion for this movie, please, enlighten us.

 
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And let's not forget that whether or not Luke knows what a parsec is, or how long the Kessel Run might be, ends up being entirely beside the point. This isn't a novel like Dune where readers can look in the glossary to figure out WTH the terms mean. It's a movie, so it has to use terms grounded in the real world. If it doesn't, they have to be explicity explained (or at least should be). Lucas was making a bridge to reality by selecting the term parsec.

Again, if you've got proof it is being used beyond the established meaning, let's hear it.

 
EbylHusker said:
And let's not forget that whether or not Luke knows what a parsec is, or how long the Kessel Run might be, ends up being entirely beside the point. This isn't a novel like Dune where readers can look in the glossary to figure out WTH the terms mean. It's a movie, so it has to use terms grounded in the real world. If it doesn't, they have to be explicity explained (or at least should be). Lucas was making a bridge to reality by selecting the term parsec.

Again, if you've got proof it is being used beyond the established meaning, let's hear it.
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My point is the context in which it is used is more easily understood as a unit of speed as opposed to a unit of distance. It was not necessarily used as a term of distance in the movie. It was used to describe how fast a ship was. It has - as far as I can tell - only been explained as a unit of distance to try to match the dialog with the term as we know it. Basically as a way to not have to say "Lucas screwed up" or something similar.

There is no proof either way. Some assumptions have to be made. I'm not say either is right or wrong, just wondering if there was more to the explanation than I was aware of.

Also, the Force was far more prevalent throughout the galaxy than the Kessel Run and Luke didn't seem to have much knowledge of it either so your explanation in Post #23 doesn't translate.

 
At that point in time, the Force has been widely discounted as rumor or some kind of faded relic (doesn't really make sense, but this is how Lucas set it up...again, as evidenced by dialogue in the movie itself). It wouldn't have any place for much discussion on a backwater world like Tatooine. Plus, Luke has probably been intentionally shielded from any things that might have generated an interest in his father or his actual life.

And yes, there is a right. A parsec is a unit of distance. Period, lol. Why is this so hard for you to wrap your head around? And btw, Occam's Razor would actually state the simplest answer is that Lucas did what all films do - use the real world definition of a word unless otherwise specified and defined within the movie. So that is what the standard is unless you can show otherwise, which you obviously can't. The end.

It has nothing to do with Lucas screwing up. And believe me, I hate Lucas' f'ing guts, if he screwed up I'd be the first to shout about it. It's a measure of distance, and works perfectly fine as used. Now, if you want to argue that it should have been explained more in the movie, technically you'd be correct, since it doesn't appear proper at first glance. But the scene works just fine as it is, since the point is made whether the person watching understands the details behind it or not.

 
We usually think of race challenges as fixed course, time trials. In the world of interstellar navigation, it's one of fixed endpoints, course up to your abilities. Whether intentional or not, I think that gives it a very cool scifi-y feel: the smugglers of their day were pioneering frontiers like the explorers of the 16th century.

Everything I know about this topic I learned from Huskerboard, by the way, heh! In the script, I believe Ben's shaking his head at Han, suggesting he was being a bit loose with his facts in his boasting, anyway.

 
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