Have people forgotten?

kchusker_chris said:
It's not crazy for people to desire this. We watch a coach win the BSC every year that has been in their position less time than Bo now has.

2000 Oklahoma - Stoops (year 2) - 5-5, 3-8, 4-8, 5-6 (17-27: 38%)

2001 Miami - Coker (year 1) - 5-6, 9-3, 9-4, 11-1 (34-14: 71%)

2002 Ohio State - Tressel (year 2) - 10-3, 11-1, 6-6, 8-4 (35-14: 71%)

2003 LSU - Nick Saban (year 4) - 10-2, 9-3, 4-7, 3-8 (26-20: 57%)

2004 USC - Pete carrol (year 4) - 6-5, 8-5, 6-6, 5-7 (25-23: 52%)

2005 TExas - Mack Brown (year 8) - 8-4, 10-2, 8-5, 4-7 (30-18: 63%)

2006 Florida - Urban Meyer (year 2) - 10-2, 8-5, 8-5, 7-5 (33-17: 66%)

2007 LSU - Les Miles (year 3) - 10-3, 8-5, 13-1, 9-3 (40-12: 77%)

2008 Florida - Urban Meyer (year 4) - 10-2, 8-5, 8-5, 7-5 (33-17: 66%)

2009 Alabama - Nick Saban (year 3) - 4-9, 6-6, 10-2, 6-7 (26-24: 52%)

2010 Auburn - Gene Chizik (year 2) - 9-3, 11-2, 9-4, 5-7 (34-16: 68%)

2011 Alabama - Nick Saban (year 5) - 4-9, 6-6, 10-2, 6-7 (26-24: 52%)

2012 Nebraska - Bo Pelini (year 5) - 5-6, 8-4, 9-5, 5-7 (27-22: 55%)
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Let's take a different look at this. First, Nebraska sits in BFE - nowhere near anything even remotely resembling recruiting hotbeds. Every single program on that list resides in or next to a state that produces top-tier talent every year.

Second, let's look at the tenure of these coaches before they got to those schools:

Bob Stoops - First time head coach

Larry Coker - First time head coach

Jim Tressel - 14 years head coaching experience prior to Ohio State (16 total years before first NC)

Nick Saban - 6 years head coaching experience prior to LSU (10 total years before first NC)

Pete Carroll - 5 years head coaching experience prior to USC (9 total years before first NC)

Mack Brown - 14 years head coaching experience prior to Texas (22 total years before first NC)

Urban Meyer - 4 years head coaching experience prior to Florida (6 total years before first NC)

Les Miles - 4 years head coaching experience prior to LSU (9 total years before first NC)

Urban Meyer - Repeat

Nick Saban - Repeat

Gene Chizik - 2 years head coaching experience prior to Auburn (4 total years before first NC)

Nick Saban - Repeat

So what are we seeing here? Only two coaches in the last 12 years have had zero head coaching experience prior to coming to the school where they won their first national championship. Stoops inherited a John Blake team that was full of talent, they just had a crummy coach. There's room for speculation as to how Blake got that talent, but without proof that speculation has no context in this conversation.

Larry Coker was the OC at Miami for six years prior to getting the HC job, which he inherited from Butch Davis, who had stocked the team with talent like Blake did for Stoops. The most telling thing about Coker isn't his 2001 Championship, it's the years after when he couldn't maintain Davis' recruiting edge. With Davis' players his record was 35-3. With his players it fell to 25-12 and his ouster from Miami.

Then there's Gene Chizik. Aside from the natural advantages of recruiting at Auburn, Chizik's lone championship can most be attributed to Cam Newton, a generational player who would have made any top-30 team a BCS contender, if not a MNC contender.

Now, does any of that get Bo off the hook for underperforming? Absolutely not. But it does show that first-time head coaches need to have a stacked deck to win a BCS National Championship in a tenure equal to Bo's. And Bo most definitely did not have a stacked deck.

 
So since we aren't in a recruiting hotbed, and Bo is a first time head coach...we shouldn't expect much? I get what you are saying...but we chose to hire the first time head coach. Why should he have expectations that are any different? If we didn't expect him to be able to perform at that level...why the hell did we hire him and pay him 3 million a year? I want to make clear that I'm not calling for Bo's head, and I want to see him here almost regardless of outcome this year to see how he can do with Martinez in 13'. But after 13' - if we win 10 games w/ that roster, that schedule, and that much time passing in the Pelini tenure - well...I don't think I'll be able to defend him much. Plenty will say he's winning 9, plenty will say TO took 8 year...but come on, last season was huge let down. It's not the number 9, it's what went into the number 4.

Also, Bo came in with plenty of talent. In fact the talent he came in with is the highlight of his tenure here thus far (2009 defense). What he's done since, with his own recruits however has been more disappointing

 
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kchusker_chris said:
So since we aren't in a recruiting hotbed, and Bo is a first time head coach...we shouldn't expect much? I get what you are saying...but we chose to hire the first time head coach. Why should he have expectations that are any different? If we didn't expect him to be able to perform at that level...why the hell did we hire him and pay him 3 million a year? I want to make clear that I'm not calling for Bo's head, and I want to see him here almost regardless of outcome this year to see how he can do with Martinez in 13'. But after 13' - if we win 10 games w/ that roster, that schedule, and that much time passing in the Pelini tenure - well...I don't think I'll be able to defend him much. Plenty will say he's winning 9, plenty will say TO took 8 year...but come on, last season was huge let down. It's not the number 9, it's what went into the number 4.

Also, Bo came in with plenty of talent. In fact the talent he came in is the highlight of his tenure there thus far (2009 defense). What he's done since, with his own recruits however has been more disappointing
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I didn't say that we shouldn't expect much. Look at the last paragraph again. It's not an excuse - it's an explanation. It's not something that's going to keep Bo around in perpetuity without marked improvement.

 
kchusker_chris said:
So since we aren't in a recruiting hotbed, and Bo is a first time head coach...we shouldn't expect much? I get what you are saying...but we chose to hire the first time head coach. Why should he have expectations that are any different? If we didn't expect him to be able to perform at that level...why the hell did we hire him and pay him 3 million a year? I want to make clear that I'm not calling for Bo's head, and I want to see him here almost regardless of outcome this year to see how he can do with Martinez in 13'. But after 13' - if we win 10 games w/ that roster, that schedule, and that much time passing in the Pelini tenure - well...I don't think I'll be able to defend him much. Plenty will say he's winning 9, plenty will say TO took 8 year...but come on, last season was huge let down. It's not the number 9, it's what went into the number 4.

Also, Bo came in with plenty of talent. In fact the talent he came in with is the highlight of his tenure here thus far (2009 defense). What he's done since, with his own recruits however has been more disappointing
Click to expand...

Your last paragraph is a fustration of mine with many Husker fans. When a coaching change is made, many times that first recruiting class isn't that good. The new coaching staff just doesn't have the time to put a good class together. Sometimes they do. But, manytimes, that first class is a disappointment. That means there is a chance that 3-5 years into that coaches tenure, there may be a drop off in wins while the younger classes get experience and get better.

With Devaney, that drop off happened in year 6-7. He won 9 and 10 games per year right out of the box. Then in year 6, all of a sudden he was only winning 6 games.

Bo has proven he can coach a very good team. At least on Defense because we saw that up until the last 1-2 years when that first recruiting class and Callyclowns last recruiting class should have been the leaders on the team.

We have a lot of young talent on this team. I believe this last year may very well be the low point for a number of years. I'm excited about what our potential is.

 
arkiehusker said:
Not trying to start a fuss. Just wondering. As a life long (46 years) Husker fan I remember TO's struggles, or perceived struggles. People always said " He cant beat Oklahoma" then it was " he cant win the big one". It wasnt until he made changes and got speed on speed with the defense and started making those historic runs, winning NC's that he became one of the greatest coaches of all time (according to some) and became loved by the fans.

I am a huge Bo Pelini fan. I think he tries to win the right way, with right kids. I just wonder if those not in the " Bo camp" are younger and dont remember TO's struggles.
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I would also add that fans were all over McBride too at one point. The mob is fickle.

 
knapplc said:
Power-I said:
TO wasn't making 3 million dollars a year, complaining about the attitude of the people who were paying him. He also didn't regularly lose games by 30 points, and drop a game per year to some cellar dweller.

In his first 7 seasons, TO lost 4 total games by more than 2 TD's. Pelini lost 3 by more than 2 TD's last year alone.

Times aren't the same, and those two coaches certainly aren't the same.
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Tom kept the train rolling. Bo is trying to rebuild the entire rail line from scratch.

Have people forgotten? The four years prior to Dr. Tom taking the helm Nebraska went:

1968-1971: 39-6-1 with back-to-back national championships in the final two years

The four years prior to Bo taking the helm Nebraska went:

2004-2007: 27-22, not even going to a bowl game two of the last three years

Nobody disputes that Dr. Tom is a genius, and nobody disputes that Bo's rebuilding project is taking longer than anticipated. But let's not pretend that they inherited similar programs. Tom got a Ferrari. Bo got a parts car on blocks.
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Really? I didn't know one of the most dominant Blackshirt defenses ever assembled is considered "parts car on blocks".

Pelini inherited plenty of underachieving talent that he got to work on, and yes, he got them playing great.

But what now? We have regressed since '09. At 5 years, I think we can stop talking about what Pelini inherited as a valid excuse. Time to be a realist.

 
arkiehusker said:
Not trying to start a fuss. Just wondering. As a life long (46 years) Husker fan I remember TO's struggles, or perceived struggles.
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I wasn't around back in the '70s so I don't remember Tom Osborne finishing Top 10 in at least one of the AP's and Coach's polls for each of his first seventeen straight seasons of his HC career at Nebraska.

Power-I is also correct. Bo inherited a fundamentally talented and reasonably well-stocked group that had collapsed utterly as a team. He cleared the poison and rebuilt the program's psyche. For that he gets all the credit in the world.

 
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