High School Shot Clock

[BIG ERN]

My son graduated last year and he played 4 years...year round including AAU.

On average, MAYBE this happens for one possession at the end of each quarter.  I even think that's a stretch.  So, that's 4 possessions per game.  How many possessions do think are in a game?

I actually played basketball my whole life, not just watched my kids. We played a team 3x in one season, first two games the avg score totals were around 115. Once we played them in districts the total score was 76 becuase they knew if you limit possessions your chances are better to win against a superior opponent. I've seen the top class stall and win State title 36-32 when the other team had two D1 players on it. Idc if it happens once a year, no reason this should be part of the game. "It doesn't happen often IMO so who cares" isn't a good argument. 

 

[BigRedBuster]

I actually played basketball my whole life, not just watched my kids. We played a team 3x in one season, first two games the avg score totals were around 115. Once we played them in districts the total score was 76 becuase they knew if you limit possessions your chances are better to win against a superior opponent. I've seen the top class stall and win State title 36-32 when the other team had two D1 players on it. Idc if it happens once a year, no reason this should be part of the game. "It doesn't happen often IMO so who cares" isn't a good argument. 

Sorry I didn't mention I played and was involved in HS basketball too with a coach that's now in the Nebraska hall of fame.  Didn't think that was really relevant.  But....now that we have that out in the open.

Let me ask you this.  When I was coming up through middle school and high school in the 70s and 80s, there wasn't a shot clock.  There wasn't a three point line.  We had shorts that barely made it to mid thigh.  I remember games where total scores were 160+.  I remember some games where I was wondering if our team was going to go over 100.  Never did.  But came close. This also wasn't abnormal.  Sure, we had those games where we would score in the 50s.  But, it wasn't abnormal for us to score in the 70s or 80s.  

What's changed?  Why do we all of a sudden need a shot clock so we can have scoring?  I'll give you my opinion.  Basketball offenses suck now days along with fundamentals.  Maybe we need a shot clock so that you don't have to sit through a game with a total score in the 70s.  But, it's just a bandaid that is covering up the real problem.  

Develop and teach real basketball team offense that includes good player movement and ball movement to go with it to get open shots or easy back door layups.  Stop promoting individual kids to be hot dogs.  And...for CHRIST'S SAKE....teach a kid that when you're at the basket, put the ball up instead of always having to dish it back out to some hot dog at the three point line to lob up a prayer.

I loved watching my son play and he had a very successful career in HS.  But, I'll agree with you with one thing, the overall product on the floor sucks....I just don't think it's a lack of a shot clock issue and I actually think that, in the big picture, it will promote even less development of offenses.  

 

[teachercd]

Oh s#!t...are we telling our own high school stories now???  I am soooo down for this!

 

[Bigred_inSD]

South Dakota added the shot clock a few years ago, its 35 seconds and each class (AA,A,B) all use it.  Haven't heard of any issues from it 

 

[wiuhusker]

Sorry I didn't mention I played and was involved in HS basketball too with a coach that's now in the Nebraska hall of fame.  Didn't think that was really relevant.  But....now that we have that out in the open.

Let me ask you this.  When I was coming up through middle school and high school in the 70s and 80s, there wasn't a shot clock.  There wasn't a three point line.  We had shorts that barely made it to mid thigh.  I remember games where total scores were 160+.  I remember some games where I was wondering if our team was going to go over 100.  Never did.  But came close. This also wasn't abnormal.  Sure, we had those games where we would score in the 50s.  But, it wasn't abnormal for us to score in the 70s or 80s.  

What's changed?  Why do we all of a sudden need a shot clock so we can have scoring?  I'll give you my opinion.  Basketball offenses suck now days along with fundamentals.  Maybe we need a shot clock so that you don't have to sit through a game with a total score in the 70s.  But, it's just a bandaid that is covering up the real problem.  

Develop and teach real basketball team offense that includes good player movement and ball movement to go with it to get open shots or easy back door layups.  Stop promoting individual kids to be hot dogs.  And...for CHRIST'S SAKE....teach a kid that when you're at the basket, put the ball up instead of always having to dish it back out to some hot dog at the three point line to lob up a prayer.

I loved watching my son play and he had a very successful career in HS.  But, I'll agree with you with one thing, the overall product on the floor sucks....I just don't think it's a lack of a shot clock issue and I actually think that, in the big picture, it will promote even less development of offenses.  

I agree with most of this. My brother and I graduated high school 4 years apart and both of our teams were successful given what our high school boys basketball history was. The team my senior year tried to make every game a track meet and to be honest we were terrible at trying to stall. My brothers team walked the ball up the floor every possession. Not sure what caused the coach to completely change philosophies over the years but it was 2 totally different teams.

And while fundamentals are taking a hit in HS basketball, one could argue the bigger issue is coaches needing to be too involved in the game. If you have good enough players let them play and let the athletes be athletes. Too much needing to call a set offense every possession. The biggest thing al shot clock would do would is it would force coaches to let the game be more free flowing which would be hard for most. 

 

[teachercd]

Are fundamentals taking a hit?  I know we like to say that but college basketball and NBA is played at such a crazy athletic level I feel like learning a 10 foot bank shot from a set position is sort of pointless.  Are shooting %'s higher-same-lower than 30 years ago?  I have no idea.  Is FT% better or worse?

I don't know, I really don't watch a ton of HS basketball if I don't have to.  But college seems fine.

 

[wiuhusker]

Are fundamentals taking a hit?  I know we like to say that but college basketball and NBA is played at such a crazy athletic level I feel like learning a 10 foot bank shot from a set position is sort of pointless.  Are shooting %'s higher-same-lower than 30 years ago?  I have no idea.  Is FT% better or worse?

I don't know, I really don't watch a ton of HS basketball if I don't have to.  But college seems fine.

I think the fundamentals people are referring to are kids learning how to play within the flow of a game without having a set offense. Learning how to read different types of screens, different ways to get open, how to be effective without having the ball in your hand. A lot of times if a kid doesn't have the ball in their hand they have no idea what they can do to help the team. Little things like that are taking a hit because I don't think there's enough good coaches both in HS and summer teams that can teach them properly. 

 

[teachercd]

I think the fundamentals people are referring to are kids learning how to play within the flow of a game without having a set offense. Learning how to read different types of screens, different ways to get open, how to be effective without having the ball in your hand. A lot of times if a kid doesn't have the ball in their hand they have no idea what they can do to help the team. Little things like that are taking a hit because I don't think there's enough good coaches both in HS and summer teams that can teach them properly. 

Could be, to me that is not fundamentals though that is, like you mentioned, coaching.  

Don't get me started on summer/select/AAU/Club...

 

[wiuhusker]

Could be, to me that is not fundamentals though that is, like you mentioned, coaching.  

Don't get me started on summer/select/AAU/Club...

I work at a facility in Omaha that is connected to one of the Summer AAU clubs so we could have a very lengthy chat about those. The guys that run the one I work at are very knowledgeable and do things the right way. But some of the stories they tell me crazy. 

 

[teachercd]

I work at a facility in Omaha that is connected to one of the Summer AAU clubs so we could have a very lengthy chat about those. The guys that run the one I work at are very knowledgeable and do things the right way. But some of the stories they tell me crazy. 

OSA?  Frozen Ropes?  The Academy?  No need to say, I am sure we know some of the same people.  

Most of those coaches are good guys...but it is set up to rip off parents as you know.  I don't blame them, I used to run tons of summer camps and did the same

 

[BigRedBuster]

I agree with most of this. My brother and I graduated high school 4 years apart and both of our teams were successful given what our high school boys basketball history was. The team my senior year tried to make every game a track meet and to be honest we were terrible at trying to stall. My brothers team walked the ball up the floor every possession. Not sure what caused the coach to completely change philosophies over the years but it was 2 totally different teams.

And while fundamentals are taking a hit in HS basketball, one could argue the bigger issue is coaches needing to be too involved in the game. If you have good enough players let them play and let the athletes be athletes. Too much needing to call a set offense every possession. The biggest thing al shot clock would do would is it would force coaches to let the game be more free flowing which would be hard for most. 

I don’t agree with your comments on offense. That is what I see coaches trying to do and it sucks. 

That works for your top AAU teams with freaks as athletes that play 100 games a year with each other. 

Nebradka highschool teams need to be thinking about how to create offense similar to how Princeton used to. Good sound offensive philosophy that is taught to the kids. With an offense that flows and is continuous. But, that’s not cool. 

When you say they have a set play, sometimes they do, but it’s a set play where if it doesn’t work, it’s adlib from there. 

 

[wiuhusker]

I don’t agree with your comments on offense. That is what I see coaches trying to do and it sucks. 

That works for your top AAU teams with freaks as athletes that play 100 games a year with each other. 

Nebradka highschool teams need to be thinking about how to create offense similar to how Princeton used to. Good sound offensive philosophy that is taught to the kids. With an offense that flows and is continuous. But, that’s not cool. 

When you say they have a set play, sometimes they do, but it’s a set play where if it doesn’t work, it’s adlib from there. 

To me a high school varsity basketball player shouldn't have to be confined to a set offense or princeton style offense every trip down. Let the kids play through a free flowing style and teach them what they can and can't do within the structure of said offense and let them go. Use film room to teach and correct things. Too many coaches confine their players too much by running offenses that may not put their athletes in the best position to win and be successful. 

 

[BigRedBuster]

To me a high school varsity basketball player shouldn't have to be confined to a set offense or princeton style offense every trip down. Let the kids play through a free flowing style and teach them what they can and can't do within the structure of said offense and let them go. Use film room to teach and correct things. Too many coaches confine their players too much by running offenses that may not put their athletes in the best position to win and be successful. 

That’s what a lot of coaches are trying to do and it sucks. My opinion is that many high schools don’t have the athletic type players to make that work and have high scores like people want. 

Now, if I’m wrong, then I’m open to explanation as to why scores are lower than they used to be. 

I dont believe irs because of not having a shot clock. 

 

[wiuhusker]

That’s what a lot of coaches are trying to do and it sucks. My opinion is that many high schools don’t have the athletic type players to make that work and have high scores like people want. 

Now, if I’m wrong, then I’m open to explanation as to why scores are lower than they used to be. 

I dont believe irs because of not having a shot clock. 

I don't think it is a shot clock issue either. It's coaches that want their teams to move the ball for 30-35 seconds before even looking at the rim instead of running things to get a good look early. Or letting their team get out in transition and get easy layups. i attribute it to coaches wanting to have total control over a game. 

 

[teachercd]

That’s what a lot of coaches are trying to do and it sucks. My opinion is that many high schools don’t have the athletic type players to make that work and have high scores like people want. 

Now, if I’m wrong, then I’m open to explanation as to why scores are lower than they used to be. 

I dont believe irs because of not having a shot clock. 

Some coaches over-coach which might lead to lower scores.  

But are scores really lower?