How do we Look at Defensive End

[StuckinChicago]

I disagree with both of you. You can be big and play Defensive end, and you can be small and play defensive end on obvious passing situations. Reggie White was the greatest sack artist in NFL history, and he weighed 285lbs! Demorrio Williams was a great pass rusher a couple of years ago, and he was lucky if he weighed 210! allthough they probably had him listed as heavier than that. Talent and technique are more important that size, and if Dontrelle can get around the edge or put a club move on a big ol tackle, than more power too him, and if Carriker can run a man over, or bull rush him into the quarterback, or surprise him with a quick burst of speed and get to the quarterback, than more power too him.

 

[formerfan]

ummmm. Wistrom was at 260, and now plays at 275. Not exactly a small defensive end. That being said, I know that we will rotation some guys in during third down plays. Muhammed is quick coming off of the corner, and you may see a linebacker, most likely Dontrelle Moore, come in and rush on third and long, or used in a zone blitz package. He is not too small for that purpose. Even though this may happen on third down, we need guys who can rush the passer on 1st and 2nd down, and both Moore and Carriker are capable of that. You think they are too big Former? Moore runs a 4.5 forty, and Carriker is in at 4.7 and is the strongest man on the team regardless of position. Both should be able to create a consisten pass rush if they stay healthy, which they didnt do last year. Here is confirmation of speeds, if you want to double check me.
http://rivals100.rivals.com/viewprospect.a...ey=1155&Sport=1

Sure, those were there times when they were recruited, and were like 35-45 lbs lighter. Are they still the same??

BTW, Wistrom never hit 260 until he was a SR, he came in around 220-225 as a Frosh, and added a little weight each year.

Reggie White was the greatest sack artist in NFL history, and he weighed 285lbs!

Absolutely, but we are talking about the GREATEST, EVER, not your average, everyday NCAA level DE. While a nobel attemp, the comparison is not exactly the same.

 

[StuckinChicago]

I agree, White was the greatest ever, but look at the guys who were drafted last year at DE. Not a single one that went in the first round was under 260, and if they were, they were switching to OLB. You can be big and rush the passer, you can be small and play DE, both of you are missing the mark on this one i think.

 

[formerfan]

Moore is to small to play DE He's only 225. If you Look at Jay Moore, Wali Muhammad and Adam Carriker you will see them listed 270, 260, and 280 respectively

:bad Again, you are wrong.

The best DE's in NU history were almost all under 260lbs. Wistrom, Tomich, Hill, Alberts, D Jones, Harris. And for part or most of their careers, both Kelsays, Rucker, and VandenBosch played under 260. But that was when we had successful systems in place, too.

If you want SPEED on your D like you all have been talking about, then a 290 lb DE is not going to do it. Moore and Carriker, while they may be decent, are too big to play DE and be an effective pass rusher on a consistant basis. That was part of the problem from last year.

I challange you to name 1 of those players weights that you mentioned. Just 1, and don't throw out numbers because i have rosters i can look at from 1991-2004 and tell whether you are guessing or not.

I say Moore is to small to play DE at 225 and you say he is to big? So in your opinion a DE should be what? 200 pounds? :rollin

First, since my rosters are all packed away, I'll do this off the top of my head. Hill, Alberts, Harris, D Jones all played between 230-240 as SRs. Wistrom and Rucker came in at about 220-225 as a frosh, and GW was at 260 as a Sr, Rucker was up to about 265 as a Sr. Tomich was around 245 as a Soph, 255-260 as a Jr, and 265 as a Sr. KVB came in about 235 and ended up at about 265-270 as a Sr. As for the Kelsays, I dont remember exactly(so dont quote me), but Chad was like 260 and Chris was like 270 as a Sr.

BTW, the Moore I was referrering to was JAY MOORE, who is actually LISTED as a DE, not DONTRELLE, who is a LB. :rollin :rollin

BTW, you are almost always wrong, dont try to correct me. :box

 

[formerfan]

I agree, White was the greatest ever, but look at the guys who were drafted last year at DE. Not a single one that went in the first round was under 260, and if they were, they were switching to OLB. You can be big and rush the passer, you can be small and play DE, both of you are missing the mark on this one i think.

And the NFL is a different game from NCAA. Notice guys who have to switch positions just to make it , ie Randel-el, Slash Stewart, Hines Wards, Jammal Lord, Trev Alberts, Eric Johnson (NU) just to name a few.

 

[formerfan]

Moore is to small to play DE He's only 225. If you Look at Jay Moore, Wali Muhammad and Adam Carriker you will see them listed 270, 260, and 280 respectively

As an every down, play-the-run end, I'd agree. But for what Eric proposes - as a rusher only on obvious passing downs - I think his lack of size and greater quickness would actually be an asset. Especially against a tackle with slow feet or who can't quickly react to an "opposite" move.

That would be ideal, but the problem you run into is Moore might end up going against a 300 pound offensive lineman. Regardless if the lineman has slow feet, he can still block out Moore. Another thing that i personally wouldn't do as a coach would put Moore in when we plan on attacking on a pass play. If that becomes a habit, other offensive coordinators will know what we plan on doing and will simply change the play.

Ever watch Demorrio Williams off the end?

Or T Farley, J Williams, T Ortiz, all guys who were small but effective pass rushers. :thumbs

As far as not using D Moore specifically as a pass specialist at DE, thats when you mix things up, show blitz, and drop him back, or blitz another LB or DB, or let him rush and run a zone blitz. The biggest problem they would have with him playing DE would be technique (that is if he never played the position before).

 

[formerfan]

Eric Crouch?

:rollin

 

[StuckinChicago]

Moore did play Defensive end in junior college, and former, i was agreeing with you that smaller guys can play defensive end in college. I was just disagreeing with your comment that Carriker and Moore are too big to be effective pass rushers.

 

[kramer]

Plain and simple both Carriker and Koore need to get an attitude and fire up their butts, show emotion and get after it. Just have to be relentless.

 

[NamelessHusker]

Moore is to small to play DE He's only 225. If you Look at Jay Moore, Wali Muhammad and Adam Carriker you will see them listed 270, 260, and 280 respectively

As an every down, play-the-run end, I'd agree. But for what Eric proposes - as a rusher only on obvious passing downs - I think his lack of size and greater quickness would actually be an asset. Especially against a tackle with slow feet or who can't quickly react to an "opposite" move.

That would be ideal, but the problem you run into is Moore might end up going against a 300 pound offensive lineman. Regardless if the lineman has slow feet, he can still block out Moore. Another thing that i personally wouldn't do as a coach would put Moore in when we plan on attacking on a pass play. If that becomes a habit, other offensive coordinators will know what we plan on doing and will simply change the play.

Ever watch Demorrio Williams off the end?

Or T Farley, J Williams, T Ortiz, all guys who were small but effective pass rushers. :thumbs

As far as not using D Moore specifically as a pass specialist at DE, thats when you mix things up, show blitz, and drop him back, or blitz another LB or DB, or let him rush and run a zone blitz. The biggest problem they would have with him playing DE would be technique (that is if he never played the position before).

Your numbers are so far off its ridiculous. I won't even bother trying to go into it because whatever i say, you are convinced you are always right. What else would i expect from soneone who thinks "HE" is Nebraska while Callahan doesn't represent Nebraska. Can we say ARROGANT STATEMENT?

 

[NamelessHusker]

Moore is to small to play DE He's only 225. If you Look at Jay Moore, Wali Muhammad and Adam Carriker you will see them listed 270, 260, and 280 respectively

As an every down, play-the-run end, I'd agree. But for what Eric proposes - as a rusher only on obvious passing downs - I think his lack of size and greater quickness would actually be an asset. Especially against a tackle with slow feet or who can't quickly react to an "opposite" move.

That would be ideal, but the problem you run into is Moore might end up going against a 300 pound offensive lineman. Regardless if the lineman has slow feet, he can still block out Moore. Another thing that i personally wouldn't do as a coach would put Moore in when we plan on attacking on a pass play. If that becomes a habit, other offensive coordinators will know what we plan on doing and will simply change the play.

Ever watch Demorrio Williams off the end?

Pillen, no doubt Demarrio was one of the greatest players at Nebraska since Eric Crouch left. But Demarrio was a pure Linebacker, and was used as a rush end in certain situations. It's expected of a linebacker to every once in a while to be used against the pass rush, but overall, his height and weight made him a typical linebacker. That's a reason why Atlanta drafted him as linebacker instead of a DE because that's where his real threat was. The thing that got other teams worried about him was that when he pass rushed, the DE would usually drop back, thus causing choas on the offensive line of teams because a drop back DE can instantly kill your rushing game if you have someone like DW disrupting your passing game.

 

[NamelessHusker]

Atlanta never even considered him to play DE. They almost put him at Safety because they thought he was to small to play linebacker in the NFL.

Not sure what makes you think he was looked at as safety by Atlanta because of his size. Atlanta drafted him for the sole reason of linebacker. When he went into Atlanta's training camp, he went in with 225 pounds, and Atlanta wanted him about 10 more pounds before they threw him into the linebackers core. While putting on the pounds, they threw him at special teams to get some action and when Chris Draft (starting linebacker) went down because of an injury, DW got his shot at nickle linebacker and has since been the starter the last 4 years at the LB spot. Now he's i think about 230, which is usually the starting weight for linebackers in the NFL. It's rare to find a linebacker less then 230 in the NFL and very rare to find one over 245.

 

[NamelessHusker]

Before they drafted him he was around 210-215. They weren't sure if he was going to be big enough once he got to camp, that's why they almost put him at safety, but they wanted him as a linebacker and drafted him as a linebacker. But luckily Demorrio added on the wait before camp, and the rest of your story is true.

Oh ok i, see what you were talking about. I thought u were talking about the post-draft. That's correct, DW did go into the draft at 215 according to the 2003 NU roster and was at 225 when he went to camp. Gotcha

 

[formerfan]

Your numbers are so far off its ridiculous. I won't even bother trying to go into it because whatever i say, you are convinced you are always right. What else would i expect from soneone who thinks "HE" is Nebraska while Callahan doesn't represent Nebraska. Can we say ARROGANT STATEMENT?

Well, Gutless Huskers, if my numbers are wrong (which they are not) then what numbers do you have and where did you get them??? I just recall what I remember seeing on TV before every game they played (which I have watched numerous times), every pregame lineup in the newspaper, Lindys, Athlons, Sporting News, and the NU Media Guides or gameday programs.

Gutless Husker :dumdum = all hat, no cattle.

 

[NamelessHusker]

Your numbers are so far off its ridiculous. I won't even bother trying to go into it because whatever i say, you are convinced you are always right. What else would i expect from soneone who thinks "HE" is Nebraska while Callahan doesn't represent Nebraska. Can we say ARROGANT STATEMENT?

Well, Gutless Huskers, if my numbers are wrong (which they are not) then what numbers do you have and where did you get them??? I just recall what I remember seeing on TV before every game they played (which I have watched numerous times), every pregame lineup in the newspaper, Lindys, Athlons, Sporting News, and the NU Media Guides or gameday programs.

Gutless Husker :dumdum = all hat, no cattle.

You are so

. That's your only way of responding when you are down

You come up with cute little insults like gutless Husker? Not even going to bother with you anymore, you have shown your level of maturity