How good can we be with TM under center next year?

[lo country]

That's really what your coming back with? What's he going to say? I'm not ready. Like I said before my sources tell me Taylor is WAY ahead of Brion. Does Taylor have room to improve? Yes! I'm willing to see what happens next year with his development before I throw him under the bus.

This is the alarming point to me. IIRC, this is year 3 for Carnes and year 4 for Martinez. If the gap is that wide, it is one of two things. Carnes does not have the mental capacity to grasp the system OR we do not have the ability to get players better than when they arrive.

If it is the first, it goes with the comments of those who believe this staff has issues with recruiting ie missing talent/not good judges etc..... Not good.

If it is number 2, it goes right into the theme from some (myself included) that the staff has issues developing talent.

Neither one is good. It goes back to what seems to be this teams (staffs) mentality of playing not to lose instead of playing to win. They lack that killer attitude IMO. Same with the way they play Martinez this year. Safe plays, limit his exposure as it appears they have no faith in the back-ups. Again goes to lack of development or recruiting misses. IIRC, Bo or Beck mentioned during the season that if Martinez went down, Rex would be their guy.

 

[Redtillimdead]

I think TM can look great under center next year!!!! It's what he does after he takes the snap from center that will tell the story!!!

 

[WAHusker]

I think a better question is, how many games can martinez WIN for us next year? A 3 year starter at QB should be winning the games for the team....... not just managing the offense and not LOSING the game for us. I hope to see a winning QB this year, not just a warm body that just hands off to Burkhead.

 

[3rd and long]

I'll preface by saying that I've been plenty critical of TM the last two years and I am still not sold on him ever being a guy who can win big games for us (and I'm sorry, but yes, sometimes you need the quarterback to WIN games for you).

But, he certainly did not lose games for us this year. I thought he made tremendous strides in his decision making. Just dumping the ball off to Rex out of the backfield can make a QB look pretty good. He protected the ball much better, and I thought actually did a pretty decent job of running the option.

His mechanics are horrible, and no matter what anyone says, mechnics do matter. Proper mechanics can make the difference between that slant pass hitting a receiver in the numbers in stride and letting him run after the catch or that receiver having to contort himself just to make a catch and then being tackled immeditately. That brings into play what I feel is one of our absolute biggest needs. A surehanded, go-to receiver who can make something other than just the average catch. I've argued on here that many of our "non-catches" are not simply just drops, but many times cases of receivers who are below average who don't actually make plays on the ball (I do admit however, we have had more than our share of drops that are on the money). TM is never going to be a QB who consistently puts the ball right on the money, I think the majority of his throws are off a little bit, high, low, behind (again where mechanics come into play), but most are catchable. But we need some receivers who can help him out by making above average catches.

I would really love to see him iron out those mechanics over the off season, I don't know if pocket presence is ever really going to be there, but I really want to see some catches by receivers that help out their QB (I think Marlow and Cotton may have had a couple this year, but not nearly enough). All in all, while I don't see him as ever being more than an average QB, I think he can be our team leader....if we can address our more pressing issues (defense, O-line, etc). I don't see QB as anywhere near our biggest issue.

 

[lo country]

I'll preface by saying that I've been plenty critical of TM the last two years and I am still not sold on him ever being a guy who can win big games for us (and I'm sorry, but yes, sometimes you need the quarterback to WIN games for you).

But, he certainly did not lose games for us this year. I thought he made tremendous strides in his decision making. Just dumping the ball off to Rex out of the backfield can make a QB look pretty good. He protected the ball much better, and I thought actually did a pretty decent job of running the option.

His mechanics are horrible, and no matter what anyone says, mechnics do matter. Proper mechanics can make the difference between that slant pass hitting a receiver in the numbers in stride and letting him run after the catch or that receiver having to contort himself just to make a catch and then being tackled immeditately. That brings into play what I feel is one of our absolute biggest needs. A surehanded, go-to receiver who can make something other than just the average catch. I've argued on here that many of our "non-catches" are not simply just drops, but many times cases of receivers who are below average who don't actually make plays on the ball (I do admit however, we have had more than our share of drops that are on the money). TM is never going to be a QB who consistently puts the ball right on the money, I think the majority of his throws are off a little bit, high, low, behind (again where mechanics come into play), but most are catchable. But we need some receivers who can help him out by making above average catches.

I would really love to see him iron out those mechanics over the off season, I don't know if pocket presence is ever really going to be there, but I really want to see some catches by receivers that help out their QB (I think Marlow and Cotton may have had a couple this year, but not nearly enough). All in all, while I don't see him as ever being more than an average QB, I think he can be our team leader....if we can address our more pressing issues (defense, O-line, etc). I don't see QB as anywhere near our biggest issue.

With the type of O Beck and Bo envision, average will not get us where we want to be. Granted, this is not TO's O, but most coaches running some type of option oriented O will say that the QB is and/or needs to be one of the most athletic guys on the field. Martinez is fast, very. Not sure about the most athletic.

Sadly, under Bo and even Cally we have not had any type of QB development. This was year 2 with Martinez and other than less fumbles and "better manager" has his actual abilities improved? Maybe it was by design, but I think as far as athleticism on display, he has regressed. I really think the single biggest asset we could acquire would be a dedicated QB coach. Martinez and Carnes could seriously use the help. It is telling when the staff mentioned that if Martinez went down, Rex would come in under center.

 

[zoogs]

I support Taylor as a player on our team too. However, I don't support him in the role he has right now. He has great athletic abilities. His strengths are not being utilized at the QB position.

Well, I think they are. So does Beck & Bo.

Beck - you mean the guy who knows best what Taylor's strengths and abilities are and what how to utilize them, and the same guy who is at fault whenever Taylor makes an interception for having no idea what the team's strengths and abilities are and calling a stupid play?

 

[bshirt]

I support Taylor as a player on our team too. However, I don't support him in the role he has right now. He has great athletic abilities. His strengths are not being utilized at the QB position.

Well, I think they are. So does Beck & Bo.

Beck - you mean the guy who knows best what Taylor's strengths and abilities are and what how to utilize them, and the same guy who is at fault whenever Taylor makes an interception for having no idea what the team's strengths and abilities are and calling a stupid play?

What in the world are you talking about?

 

[It'sNotAFakeID]

I think some posters on this thread understand what should be a fairly easy concept to grasp. That being, that if the offensive line let's pressure get to Taylor, all the fault for a bad play can't be attributed directly to Taylor. Also, if the receivers dropped the ball, all the fault for a bad play can't be attributed directly to Taylor. Football is a team game for a reason.

Now to address the question in the OP, I think that right now with Taylor, we were just a few bad plays in all of our losses away from being a very solid 11-1. Sure his passing mechanics are horrible, but they have gotten the job done more so than it did last year. Taylor made better decisions this year. I only hope that he continues to improve in those areas, as much as I hope to see the offensive line and the wide receivers improve in their necessary skill sets.

If we do, we're going to be a tough team to beat.

If just one of those units don't step up, we may win one more game, we may lose one more game, or we may end up with the same record.

 

[zoogs]

Beck - you mean the guy who knows best what Taylor's strengths and abilities are and what how to utilize them, and the same guy who is at fault whenever Taylor makes an interception for having no idea what the team's strengths and abilities are and calling a stupid play?

What in the world are you talking about?

Let's revisit a first-half interception Taylor made in the Ohio State game.

That was ENTIRELY on Tim Beck/Bo Pelini. I swear to god, the next person that blames that play on Taylor.

He had no choice but to force a ball downfield based on what his coaches were asking. They ran a QB draw, then DIDN'T CALL A TIMEOUT, let 20 seconds run off the clock, and then called a vertical pass play.

If you're going to run the clock out, why pass? If you're trying to score, why let the clock run? To go to a checkdown receiver on that play would have contradicted his coaches' desire which apparently was to try and score, he had no choice but to go downfield if they wanted to score.

That was god-awful coaching, and nothing else.

Damn straight.

That was simply bad coaching decisions. Nothing else.

Tim Beck only called the play. He did not force Taylor to be cavalier with ball security and force him to make a throw that was at high risk to get picked off, deep in our own territory.

Here is a question. I don't think Tim Beck called a lot of rollout passes this year for Taylor. Very few, I remember some earlier in the year, but we went away from that big time in the end. Now, you tell me: does Tim beck know that Taylor is not very good rolling out and throwing on the run, or is he too daft to realize that Taylor would kill defenses doing that?

 

[The Dude]

I think most of you Taylor supporters are just supporting him because you know we are stuck with him as our starter for the next two seasons. You are in denial that he is not the man for the job so you cast the blame on our O-line or recievers dropping the ball. I've seen him plenty of times with good protection and he still finds a way to screw up the play. He never looks comfortable in the pocket and can't throw worth a damn.

I have no problem being "stuck" with one of the most productive players in the history of the program who has only gotten better as a QB. Going into next season with a good veteran backfield sure is a doozy of a problem to have. =(

 

[PaulCrewe]

Paul, got to disagree with you about the rollouts. Taylor's footwork is more of a mess on the rollouts, and so has his decision making been. He's been sharp at times when in the pocket. Maybe we can develop a designed rollout game for him such as those short throws to the RB Fresno made a living on us with, but I have to say, I'm really skeptical until I see it.

As far as the gap, who really knows? I think that every starting position on the team should be up for grabs. This team needs a motivational re-set. And especially at QB, I want a wide-open race for anyone who wants it. Let the chips fall where they may. I hope we'll get that this year, and I hope we'll be able to see both QB1 and QB2 get some time next year.

Taylor may be a veteran of three years, but he is new enough to the position of QB that I have skepticism that he'll play with the savvy of a typical three-year veteran. Just based on where he came from and his inexperience, I do not think he has the automatic leg up on younger competition that seems to be implied.

zoogs, when at all did NU call any straight rollout or a rollout after playaction?? The times, if any(and I can't completely recall right now) were very few. Think of this, when straight dropping back into the pocket, Taylor would "feel" pressure almost immediately and get happy feet. When rolling out you are buying a little more time for your QB. It also offers him a running lanes towards the outside, where he always seens to look for, as well.

As for the gap, it was quite large this year. I heard it about halfway through the season and believe it was even brought up in an article after the season. It is not a talent gap, let me make that clear. It is a recognition of defenses, knowing what others in our offense are doing, what proper reads there are in said offense, and game prep gap. The staff recognizes the talent of Brion, however the things needed to be game starting/substancial playing time were not there last fall.

I am not saying Brion can't improve on those things this offseason, just that there was plently of fire to the smoke that has been arising around the gap between the two last fall.

 

[TheW0rld]

How good can we be with TM under center next year?

I think the answer to that question lies more with Tim Beck than it does with Martinez. Martinez is a known quantity. We all know what he can do and can't do. He runs really, really fast in a straight line, passes just OK with that weird motion, lacks lateral movement, lacks pocket presence and does the strangest things going into contact that I've just about ever seen, you know, that stutter step cringe thing standing straight up. If that is the horse you are going to ride then it's up to Beck to maximize the run really, really fast in a straight line part so that threat is there constantly for the defense and throw in enough of a passing game to keep people honest.

 

[hskrfan4life]

We will be great if the defense gets it together. I don't think our season rests on the offense for once. I think the Defense needs to vastly improve.

 

[zoogs]

Can't argue with that, Paul.

As far as rollouts, I can only remember very few of them too. You mean the times that Taylor rolled out of the pocket by design, as opposed to his 'scrambles'? very few. I remain skeptical of it, but I'll agree that if he can become effective at this, it would be something we can really feast on defenses with.

 

[bshirt]

Beck - you mean the guy who knows best what Taylor's strengths and abilities are and what how to utilize them, and the same guy who is at fault whenever Taylor makes an interception for having no idea what the team's strengths and abilities are and calling a stupid play?

What in the world are you talking about?

Let's revisit a first-half interception Taylor made in the Ohio State game.

That was ENTIRELY on Tim Beck/Bo Pelini. I swear to god, the next person that blames that play on Taylor.

He had no choice but to force a ball downfield based on what his coaches were asking. They ran a QB draw, then DIDN'T CALL A TIMEOUT, let 20 seconds run off the clock, and then called a vertical pass play.

If you're going to run the clock out, why pass? If you're trying to score, why let the clock run? To go to a checkdown receiver on that play would have contradicted his coaches' desire which apparently was to try and score, he had no choice but to go downfield if they wanted to score.

That was god-awful coaching, and nothing else.

Damn straight.

That was simply bad coaching decisions. Nothing else.

Tim Beck only called the play. He did not force Taylor to be cavalier with ball security and force him to make a throw that was at high risk to get picked off, deep in our own territory.

Here is a question. I don't think Tim Beck called a lot of rollout passes this year for Taylor. Very few, I remember some earlier in the year, but we went away from that big time in the end. Now, you tell me: does Tim beck know that Taylor is not very good rolling out and throwing on the run, or is he too daft to realize that Taylor would kill defenses doing that?

Geesh, zoogies. So what? So who ever said Beck or Tmart was perfect & immune to making mistakes? Bfd.

Hey, Tmart threw a grand total of "3" interceptions in the last eight games we played. "Three". One was a Hail Mary with two seconds left in the 1st half (Ohio St) & another was a tipped ball (Michigan St.) He did throw 9 TD passes in those same games too. What do you want from the guy?

As far as your question, I really don't know as there's lots of variables involved in putting together a game plan. It's not as simple as you suggest, zoogies. Beck has to consider every part of the offense & the defense we'll be playing (the Oline, wrs, blocking, defensive schemes and talent matchups as what positions, etc). It's not "just" Tmart that decides his game-plan. Are you with me? I know, you'll hang on to any dreamed up concept as tight as you can if shows Tmart in a bad light. Go for it.....whatever does it for ya.

Lastly, as many posters in this thread have already said, by far the biggest variable to our success on offense next year rides with the big ugies. By far. We can whine and b!^@h that Tmart isn't Dan Marino until the cows come home but Barney/Garrison/Stai will tell the real story.