How would things have gone if we had retained Solich as coach?

[StPaulHusker]

And wasn't TO in his sixties when he won his national titles?

He would have been 60 when he won the one in 1997.

 

[cm husker]

Perusing the thread, I'm curious how many people today view Frank's firing as a mistake. I'm also curious if that number has shifted since late 2003, and in what direction.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

Perusing the thread, I'm curious how many people today view Frank's firing as a mistake. I'm also curious if that number has shifted since late 2003, and in what direction.

The consensus I'm getting is that it's very hard to reach a consensus, as it should be with this kind of speculation.

My guess is that a sizeable number of Nebraska fans have always thought it a bad idea to fire a consistent 9 win coach, whether it was Osborne, Solich or Pelini, but the mitigating circumstances are....well...mitigating.

 

[RedSavage]

Perusing the thread, I'm curious how many people today view Frank's firing as a mistake. I'm also curious if that number has shifted since late 2003, and in what direction.

I don't think the firing was a mistake, I think the lack of a solid replacement and the subsequent hires were the mistakes.

 

[ADS]

In my opinion the firing was not a mistake, the mistake was made when the search for a new coach was a sh#t show. Unorganized and obviously Stevie P put all of his eggs in the mystery coach basket and it backfired on him.

 

[Guy Chamberlin]

And wasn't TO in his sixties when he won his national titles?

I think we sometimes forget that Tom Osborne was coming off a quadruple bypass, part of a history of heart problems, when it occurred to him that a third NC in four years was a good place to step away from the daily stress.

And then run for Congress.

I think Tom would have been better at protecting Solich from himself, ...

Yeah? In what way?
Do you believe Devaney did the same for Osborne?

Maybe he wouldn't have been so careless with his personal matters, or maybe he would have handled his staff like a boss and not as a buddy.

But you knew what I meant.

And I have no idea what Bob was for TO but I'm willing to bet that as his hand picked guy he was caring yet stern when TO did something he wasn't fond of.

As an alcoholic and notorious drunk driver, Bob Devaney would have had a hard time lecturing Frank Solich. I have no idea if Tom Osborne ever intervened in Frank's personal issues, but the code was generally private and protective of both the man and the University's reputation. Times have changed since then, and most ADs are very mindful of both the PR and legal issues a University might face. The Carl Pelini situation was handled about as well as it could be. Carl officially became Florida Atlantic's trending embarrassment rather than Nebraska's.

 

[Count 'Bility]

Rapid fan expectations are just the nature of the beast. Human nature. People want to win. People want their teams to win. And there's very little perspective, patience, and loyalty involved in such desires. The things that make certains coaches great and successful are the ones that can channel this craziness and/or block it out and plug away, makeing changes and evolving withing their craft until such a level of success is obtained. sh**ty coaches are ones who piss and moan about it and point fingers at everyone from fans, to media and AD's.

I will never apologize for my high expectations as a fan. I like Riley currently, but if after 3-4 years he isnt getting it done to the level we want, he'll be gone. And I'll be fine with that. Plug in the next guy and go play. Rinse and repeat until you find the right one.

 

[cm husker]

Rapid fan expectations are just the nature of the beast. Human nature. People want to win. People want their teams to win. And there's very little perspective, patience, and loyalty involved in such desires. The things that make certains coaches great and successful are the ones that can channel this craziness and/or block it out and plug away, makeing changes and evolving withing their craft until such a level of success is obtained. sh**ty coaches are ones who piss and moan about it and point fingers at everyone from fans, to media and AD's.

I will never apologize for my high expectations as a fan. I like Riley currently, but if after 3-4 years he isnt getting it done to the level we want, he'll be gone. And I'll be fine with that. Plug in the next guy and go play. Rinse and repeat until you find the right one.

This sounds good on paper, but in reality, you could be spinning NU into decades of mediocrity or worse.

We know from the '03/'04 search that elite coaches don't view NU as a top target among upper tier P5 opportunities.

 

[junior4949]

And how many of those you just listed got fired (or basically fired) for those down seasons?

Fired outright? Almost none. Maybe Dooley?

If we look only at the NC winners, think the only coaches that didn't make it through at least 4 seasons at the same school past his first down season were Holtz (who retired amid NCAA investigations after posting back to back 8-3 and 9-3 top 25 seasons) and Robinson, who retired.

Oh, and I forgot about Woody Hayes, who had 4 seasons that we described, including two outright losing seasons, after winning an NC.

Well Solich was not a NC winner. Solich has won just as many national titles as you, me, Bill Calahan and Bo Pelin have- zero.
And Larry Coker actually did win a NC and was fired after just 1 bad season, arguably 2 bad seasons if you count the season where they got blown out by LSU in the Peach Bowl. You haven't heard of Larry Coker, the guy who Solich lost to by a score of 37-14? Coker and Solich took over probably equally good situations and both ultimately ruined them. For some reason I can't figure out Solich is a lot more highly regarded than Coker even though Coker's the guy who won a NC, lead the head to head meeting at halftime 34-0, and went to OT in a NC game the following year.

How's Miami done since Coker? Now, look in the mirror. How's NU done since it fired Solich?

 

[junior4949]

And how many of those you just listed got fired (or basically fired) for those down seasons?

Fired outright? Almost none. Maybe Dooley?

If we look only at the NC winners, think the only coaches that didn't make it through at least 4 seasons at the same school past his first down season were Holtz (who retired amid NCAA investigations after posting back to back 8-3 and 9-3 top 25 seasons) and Robinson, who retired.

Oh, and I forgot about Woody Hayes, who had 4 seasons that we described, including two outright losing seasons, after winning an NC.

Well Solich was not a NC winner. Solich has won just as many national titles as you, me, Bill Calahan and Bo Pelin have- zero.
And Larry Coker actually did win a NC and was fired after just 1 bad season, arguably 2 bad seasons if you count the season where they got blown out by LSU in the Peach Bowl. You know Coker the guy who Solich lost to by a score of 37-14. Coker and Solich took over probably equally good situations and both ultimately ruined them. For some reason I can't figure out Solich is a lot more highly regarded than Coker even though Coker's the guy who won a NC, lead the head to head meeting at halftime 34-0, and went to OT in a NC game the following year.

they could have hired me (I would have been 5 at the time) and they still would have won the NC. Miami's team was too good that year not to win it all, no matter who was coaching.

After year 1, when Solich went 9-4 while Coker went 12-0, their trajectories were almost exactly the same. Considering NU won 3 titles in 4 years before Solich there is not much of an argument Solich took over any worse of a situation than Coker did.
If Osborne had still been NU coach in 1998, they may have gone 13-0 and been as dominant as 1995. (No I'm not saying that would have been the case I'm just saying it's possible.) Then there would probably be people years later who would be saying "That 1998 NU team was so talented any person on the sidewalk could have coached it to a NC." Little would they know that if Osborne had decided to retire after 1997, a guy named Frank Solich would have lead that team to a record of 9-4.

Wow, that must be some great herb. We started 98' with a true sophomore at QB that basically wasted his redshirt year playing sparingly at WR. He got hurt and in comes a redshirt freshman at QB that hadn't taken a collegiate snap prior. Ahman was gone to the NFL after he'd pretty much handled carrying the rock in previous years. The 98' squad definitely had a lot o talent on it. However, the said talent was pretty much just starting their collegiate careers. 98' was never going to be a special season no matter who was coaching.

 

[ADS]

And how many of those you just listed got fired (or basically fired) for those down seasons?

Fired outright? Almost none. Maybe Dooley?

If we look only at the NC winners, think the only coaches that didn't make it through at least 4 seasons at the same school past his first down season were Holtz (who retired amid NCAA investigations after posting back to back 8-3 and 9-3 top 25 seasons) and Robinson, who retired.

Oh, and I forgot about Woody Hayes, who had 4 seasons that we described, including two outright losing seasons, after winning an NC.

Well Solich was not a NC winner. Solich has won just as many national titles as you, me, Bill Calahan and Bo Pelin have- zero.
And Larry Coker actually did win a NC and was fired after just 1 bad season, arguably 2 bad seasons if you count the season where they got blown out by LSU in the Peach Bowl. You haven't heard of Larry Coker, the guy who Solich lost to by a score of 37-14? Coker and Solich took over probably equally good situations and both ultimately ruined them. For some reason I can't figure out Solich is a lot more highly regarded than Coker even though Coker's the guy who won a NC, lead the head to head meeting at halftime 34-0, and went to OT in a NC game the following year.

How's Miami done since Coker? Now, look in the mirror. How's NU done since it fired Solich?

Miami and Nebraska have done about the same since those guys were fired. Nothing of significance won and went through multiple coaching changes. Mainly for one reason: sh**ty coaching hires.

 

[Count 'Bility]

Rapid fan expectations are just the nature of the beast. Human nature. People want to win. People want their teams to win. And there's very little perspective, patience, and loyalty involved in such desires. The things that make certains coaches great and successful are the ones that can channel this craziness and/or block it out and plug away, makeing changes and evolving withing their craft until such a level of success is obtained. sh**ty coaches are ones who piss and moan about it and point fingers at everyone from fans, to media and AD's.

I will never apologize for my high expectations as a fan. I like Riley currently, but if after 3-4 years he isnt getting it done to the level we want, he'll be gone. And I'll be fine with that. Plug in the next guy and go play. Rinse and repeat until you find the right one.

This sounds good on paper, but in reality, you could be spinning NU into decades of mediocrity or worse.

We know from the '03/'04 search that elite coaches don't view NU as a top target among upper tier P5 opportunities.

we've been mediocre if not worse for 15 years now. It doesnt matter. programs come and go in and out of eliteness so fast now a days.

 

[ADS]

Rapid fan expectations are just the nature of the beast. Human nature. People want to win. People want their teams to win. And there's very little perspective, patience, and loyalty involved in such desires. The things that make certains coaches great and successful are the ones that can channel this craziness and/or block it out and plug away, makeing changes and evolving withing their craft until such a level of success is obtained. sh**ty coaches are ones who piss and moan about it and point fingers at everyone from fans, to media and AD's.

I will never apologize for my high expectations as a fan. I like Riley currently, but if after 3-4 years he isnt getting it done to the level we want, he'll be gone. And I'll be fine with that. Plug in the next guy and go play. Rinse and repeat until you find the right one.

This sounds good on paper, but in reality, you could be spinning NU into decades of mediocrity or worse.

We know from the '03/'04 search that elite coaches don't view NU as a top target among upper tier P5 opportunities.

we've been mediocre if not worse for 15 years now. It doesnt matter. programs come and go in and out of eliteness so fast now a days.

Bingo. Alabama before Saban was a middle of the pack to lower tier SEC team. Florida under Zook wasn't great. USC before Carroll was sh#t. It all comes down to recruiting and coaching.

 

[Enhance]

Rapid fan expectations are just the nature of the beast. Human nature. People want to win. People want their teams to win. And there's very little perspective, patience, and loyalty involved in such desires. The things that make certains coaches great and successful are the ones that can channel this craziness and/or block it out and plug away, makeing changes and evolving withing their craft until such a level of success is obtained. sh**ty coaches are ones who piss and moan about it and point fingers at everyone from fans, to media and AD's.

I will never apologize for my high expectations as a fan. I like Riley currently, but if after 3-4 years he isnt getting it done to the level we want, he'll be gone. And I'll be fine with that. Plug in the next guy and go play. Rinse and repeat until you find the right one.

This sounds good on paper, but in reality, you could be spinning NU into decades of mediocrity or worse.

We know from the '03/'04 search that elite coaches don't view NU as a top target among upper tier P5 opportunities.

we've been mediocre if not worse for 15 years now. It doesnt matter. programs come and go in and out of eliteness so fast now a days.

I think what it boils down to is how you individually view what it takes to find a good coach. College football, and sports in general, are more about instant rewards nowadays. Coaches will lose their job after one season, even if the team they took over for wasn't very good to begin with. Other really good coaches are shown the door, too (the situation with the Pacers this season comes to mind.)

There are examples that both mentalities work. Some programs hire a coach and have immediate success, even win national titles, within the first couple years of the hire. Everybody else sees that return on investments and wants the same. But, there are also examples of coaches who didn't have immediate success during the first few years of the job and then went on to have incredible careers (Chuck Noll is a decent example).

There is a balance to be had. I don't look at the years of coaching but more or less the progression/regression during those years.

 

[ColoradoHusk]

Was the Colorado game originally scheduled to have been played the Saturday after September 11? That might be the case but I doubt it since CU capped our regular season almost every year after the Big 12 separated into divisions. I'm not sure why else people would be talking about changing the date 2 games were played- that's one of the oddest hypotheticals I've ever heard.

If we're on those types of hypotheticals, 1983 Nebraska would have beaten 1983 Miami on almost any date if that date hadn't been January 1,1984. Even if the game were played in the Orange Bowl, Nebraska would have won if the game were on 1/2/1984, 12/31/1983, or any of the 12 dates in the regular season. Osborne wouldn't have had to coach for more than 20 years before getting a national title. But the only results that count are the results from January 1,1984.

And guess what? The only NU-CU result from 2001 that counts is the result from 11/23/2001. Colorado 62 Nebraska 36. Not what would have happened if a bunch of Muslim terrorists hadn't crashed into NYC and Washington DC buildings and caused CFB games for 9/13/2001 to be postponed.

NU had Rice scheduled for the week of the 9/11 attacks. The 9/11 attacks were actually a Tuesday morning. NU had Rice scheduled for Saturday 9/15. That game was pushed back to Thursday 9/20 because they each had a bye that week. Most college football games were pushed back until the last week of the season (Florida vs. Tennessee was one of those games), and the SEC pushed back their championship game one week.