I have never felt worse about Nebraska football

[Huskers93-97]

Perhaps you've outlined your opinions elsewhere, so you don't have to repeat yourself, but I am curious what areas you feel have objectively improved in a way that is "clear?"

Personally, I think the defense has been solid enough to win more games with a less anemic offense. Been mostly impressed with the defensive backfield and I see a lot of good things happening in the front seven. I also like what the TE's and Wandale have done. But, I see stagnation/regression at quarterback, running back, wide receiver and offensive line. So, practically the whole offense, which was supposed to be a strength of this staff.

IMO, that's the recipe bad football teams use to lose games. I don't disagree that Minnesota and Nebraska are probably equally matched, but those are big problems that have persisted around here for some time, particularly the turnovers and official blaming.

That and I don’t think anyone including Frost thought that we would be an equal to a s#!tty Minnesota team per SP+ In year 3. Also folks seem to be forgetting this was not really a 1 score game. They broke free on a td run to go up 14 and the rb fell to the ground to just run the clock out. They could have had 7 more if they wanted it 

 

[Husker_Code_Warrior]

But really we are comparing two really crappy teams, so there really isn't a winner.  

This

 

[J-MAGIC]

If this were the only game this season where we lost the turnover battle, made critical penalties, missed open receivers, etc.., your post might make sense. However, this has become the culture under Frost and company.  Every week there is a new mistake, whether its the penalties, botched snaps, poor playcalling in the red zone, etc..  The data shows the 2020 team has a far worse winning percentage the the 2018 or 2019 teams.  We are scoring 6 points fewer per game than a year ago while giving up nearly 3 points more per game than a year ago. These are real trends that justify strong reactions from fans and the national media.  I am really interested to understand what clear improvement you are seeing this year compared to the first 2 seasons under Frost.  

We burnt our program to the ground and started over with young players. Those mistakes you're talking about aren't "culture" or "trends", those are growing pains from having to start and play freshmen and sophomores who would not be seeing the field until they were juniors or seniors in a healthy program. I know people are impatient to win and I am also so, so sick of losing in this way, but unless you're Alabama or Clemson, rebuilds just don't happen overnight. These things take years, plural, like full recruiting cycles, and the progress isn't always linear. They should have won Saturday and what happened against Illinois is inexcusable, but people need to be patient and use their brains instead of melting down every time we lose a game.

Regarding improvement, if you want an objective perspective, all three of our offense, defense and special teams have improved by SP+ this year, and we're probably going to finish in the 30s this year instead of the 50s as we did in Frost's first two years. If you want my subjective opinion, our new front seven that was supposed to be this team's biggest liability has now become a strength; our offensive line is a vastly improved run blocking unit and isn't giving immediate pass rush up the middle any more despite starting two freshmen for most of the year; our quarterback who looked completely wigged out for most of his sophomore season has been improved as both a runner and a passer while throwing to (outside of Wandale) a set of MAC receivers, and overall our team is noticeably physically stronger and more competitive against teams that used to beat us by 30. That's progress. If people would rather whine about the binary wins and losses, it's a free country and I guess you can do that, but I personally think that is incredibly lame and I am going to choose to focus on the pretty clear positives here. 

I am a KU alum and attended there in the early 2010s. After Mangino was rightly fired for abusing players, Gill came in and tried to rebuild from scratch. He wasn't immediately as good as Mangino in his first two years, so they canned him. They brought in Weis and Weis started over again. Same thing, two and a half years, not as good as Mangino, gone. They bring in Beatty. Everyone agrees beforehand: "We gotta give this guy time." After three years, fans get impatient, Beatty feels his seat heating up, brings in a bunch of JUCO guys and transfers to try and get some wins to save his job, doesn't work, fired in his fourth year. Now the same thing is happening with Les Miles. I'm relating this story because this is the road we're heading down if a certain part of this fanbase doesn't put on its big kid pants and give this the time it needs. Things can get SO MUCH worse.

 

[HuskerNation1]

We burnt our program to the ground and started over with young players. Those mistakes you're talking about aren't "culture" or "trends", those are growing pains from having to start and play freshmen and sophomores who would not be seeing the field until they were juniors or seniors in a healthy program. I know people are impatient to win and I am also so, so sick of losing in this way, but unless you're Alabama or Clemson, rebuilds just don't happen overnight. These things take years, plural, like full recruiting cycles and the progress isn't linear. They should have won Saturday and what happened against Illinois is inexcusable, but people need to be patient and use their brains instead of melting down every time we lose a game.

Regarding improvement, if you want an objective perspective, all three of our offense, defense and special teams have improved by SP+ this year, and we're probably going to finish in the 30s this year instead of the 50s as we did in Frost's first two years. If you want my subjective opinion, our new front seven that was supposed to be this team's biggest liability has now become a strength; our offensive line is a vastly improved run blocking unit and isn't giving immediate pass rush up the middle any more despite starting two freshmen for most of the year; our quarterback who looked completely wigged out for most of his sophomore season has been improved as both a runner and a passer while throwing to (outside of Wandale) a set of MAC receivers, and overall our team is noticeably physically stronger and more competitive against teams that used to beat us by 30. That's progress. If people would rather whine about the binary wins and losses, it's a free country and I guess you can do that, but I personally think that is incredibly lame and I am going to choose to focus on the pretty clear positives here. 

Fair enough to have your subjective perspective.  That is what is nice about these forums we are all allowed to look at the same product displayed on the field and come to completely different conclusions.  I tend to be an optimist but also have a day job where I am evaluating leaders in my organization.  Somewhere in Season 2 is when I began to have concerns about the abilities with Frost and his staff and those trends have continued into year 3.  I am not seeing good leadership, player development or decision making by this staff on a regular basis.  These are key traits a good coaching staff should possess but they continue to be lacking.  I am hopeful this staff and team will eventually show reasons for optimism, but I have a feeling we will have to wait til 2021 to see those.  

 

[TheSker]

Fair enough to have your subjective perspective.  That is what is nice about these forums we are all allowed to look at the same product displayed on the field and come to completely different conclusions.  I tend to be an optimist but also have a day job where I am evaluating leaders in my organization.  Somewhere in Season 2 is when I began to have concerns about the abilities with Frost and his staff and those trends have continued into year 3.  I am not seeing good leadership, player development or decision making by this staff on a regular basis.  These are key traits a good coaching staff should possess but they continue to be lacking.  I am hopeful this staff and team will eventually show reasons for optimism, but I have a feeling we will have to wait til 2021 to see those.  

It's a bit premature to lay claims of lack of development in year 3.  Very few of the players are actually in their third season.

Once talent and depth are established, many players might not be in the regular rotation until they are juniors or seniors.

Under Osborne, development took place almost completely behind the scenes for 2-3 years of the player's career.  Especially offensive linemen.

 

[HuskerNation1]

It's a bit premature to lay claims of lack of development in year 3.  Very few of the players are actually in their third season.

Once talent and depth are established, many players might not be in the regular rotation until they are juniors or seniors.

Under Osborne, development took place almost completely behind the scenes for 2-3 years of the player's career.  Especially offensive linemen.

There have been guys who were playing in Year 1 of Frost that are still playing now and performing worse now than in Year 1.  Adrian Martinez is just one example.  While I do think there are a few players that have shown improvement like Cam Taylor, there seem to be far more that have remained stagnant or even regressed.  Even those players that did not start playing until Year 2 of Frost should be showing some signs of improvement this year.  Good coaches and programs do not need 3 years to see the first signs of improvement in players.

 

[Husker03]

There have been guys who were playing in Year 1 of Frost that are still playing now and performing worse now than in Year 1.  Adrian Martinez is just one example.  While I do think there are a few players that have shown improvement like Cam Taylor, there seem to be far more that have remained stagnant or even regressed.  Even those players that did not start playing until Year 2 of Frost should be showing some signs of improvement this year.  Good coaches and programs do not need 3 years to see the first signs of improvement in players.

Examples besides Martinez?

 

[TheSker]

There have been guys who were playing in Year 1 of Frost that are still playing now and performing worse now than in Year 1.  Adrian Martinez is just one example.  While I do think there are a few players that have shown improvement like Cam Taylor, there seem to be far more that have remained stagnant or even regressed.  Even those players that did not start playing until Year 2 of Frost should be showing some signs of improvement this year.  Good coaches and programs do not need 3 years to see the first signs of improvement in players.

Name the last time Nebraska started two redshirt freshmen and a redshirt sophomore on the offensive line 

 

[HuskerNation1]

Examples besides Martinez?

For starters, Cam Jurgens continues to disappoint and is an example of a lack of progress.  Remember it was Frost's decision to remove him from his high school position where he was highly touted and move him to the OL.  Also, Dedrick Mills (before his injury this season) did not look as good and has averaged 3.5 yards per carry compared to 5.2 and 5.1 last year. Perhaps you can blame this on the entire OL as our entire rushing production from the RB position is way down.  Jack Stoll would be another one who, despite missing the NW game, he has only averaged 7.5 YPG this year compared to around 20 the prior 2 seasons.  

 

[TheSker]

For starters, Cam Jurgens continues to disappoint and is an example of a lack of progress.  Remember it was Frost's decision to remove him from his high school position where he was highly touted and move him to the OL.  Also, Dedrick Mills (before his injury this season) did not look as good and has averaged 3.5 yards per carry compared to 5.2 and 5.1 last year. Perhaps you can blame this on the entire OL as our entire rushing production from the RB position is way down.  Jack Stoll would be another one who, despite missing the NW game, he has only averaged 7.5 YPG this year compared to around 20 the prior 2 seasons.  

Jurgens issue (obviously) has been with snaps.  Many former players agree with Frist that Jurgens is probably the best blocker on the OL.

To say that Jurgens hasn't developed after a position switch is a stretch.

Stoll is a stretch too.  The TEs as a unit and the DL as a unit might be where the best year over year development can be seen this season.

 

[HuskerNation1]

Name the last time Nebraska started two redshirt freshmen and a redshirt sophomore on the offensive line 

We have plenty of upperclassmen in the OL position on the team.  It's Frost and his staff's decision on who best positions the team to win games THIS YEAR.  Many believed before this season that the OL would actually be a strength of the team but it's been a major weakness.

 

[Husker in WI]

For starters, Cam Jurgens continues to disappoint and is an example of a lack of progress.  Remember it was Frost's decision to remove him from his high school position where he was highly touted and move him to the OL.  Also, Dedrick Mills (before his injury this season) did not look as good and has averaged 3.5 yards per carry compared to 5.2 and 5.1 last year. Perhaps you can blame this on the entire OL as our entire rushing production from the RB position is way down.  Jack Stoll would be another one who, despite missing the NW game, he has only averaged 7.5 YPG this year compared to around 20 the prior 2 seasons.  

Jurgens has progressed. The snap issues popping up again this year is concerning, but he seems to have locked them down and as a blocker he's better this year. Mills has been hurt, and was boom or bust last year as well. 4 games (not counting Penn State since that was one drive) isn't a lot to go on to say he's worse this year, he really only had 2 great games last year and I think we all jumped to conclusions based on the Wisconsin game. Stoll missed several games and has been eased back in - yeah he's technically played in 6 games, but just for a handful of snaps in a few of those. His replacement is averaging 30 a game, works for me.

So what I'm seeing are cherry picked examples at a postion tough to evaluate (Jurgens) and 2 injured guys. I'd defer to others on Jurgens progress/lack thereof but the other 2 guys have been hurt, and in Stoll's case, replaced. With better production than last year, which I'd call progress.

 

[HuskerNation1]

Jurgens issue (obviously) has been with snaps.  Many former players agree with Frist that Jurgens is probably the best blocker on the OL.

To say that Jurgens hasn't developed after a position switch is a stretch.

Stoll is a stretch too.  The TEs as a unit and the DL as a unit might be where the best year over year development can be seen this season.

It doesn't matter a hill of beans if Jurgens can block well if he has cost the team games from bad snaps that stalled drives or that resulted in turnovers.  The first job of a center is to snap the ball correctly and consistently.  I watch many college football games and have never seen a situation where the same player continues to struggle with snaps over a 2-year period.  

And the questions was asked about specific players besides Martinez that have not developed or who have gotten worse.  I have provided other names which includes Stoll.  I was not speaking on behalf of the entire TE group as Allen has improved, but Stoll has struggled and the data backs that up, so it's not a "stretch."  

 

[HuskerNation1]

Jurgens has progressed. The snap issues popping up again this year is concerning, but he seems to have locked them down and as a blocker he's better this year. Mills has been hurt, and was boom or bust last year as well. 4 games (not counting Penn State since that was one drive) isn't a lot to go on to say he's worse this year, he really only had 2 great games last year and I think we all jumped to conclusions based on the Wisconsin game. Stoll missed several games and has been eased back in - yeah he's technically played in 6 games, but just for a handful of snaps in a few of those. His replacement is averaging 30 a game, works for me.

So what I'm seeing are cherry picked examples at a postion tough to evaluate (Jurgens) and 2 injured guys. I'd defer to others on Jurgens progress/lack thereof but the other 2 guys have been hurt, and in Stoll's case, replaced. With better production than last year, which I'd call progress.

I disagree that a center is a tough position to evaluate when snapping the ball is a unique factor to that position.  There were a couple of high snaps in the last game alone that we were fortunate Martinez was able to catch so I have not seen consistency in snapping for the 2020 season.  Moreover, besides these example of a lack of development, I think for many players we are seeing stagnation or only very minor improvements from a year ago, but for this program to really get to the next level, we need to be seeing MAJOR improvements across the board in many players.  

What do you attribue for the 2020 team averaging 6 points fewer per game than 2019 while giving up 3 more points a game on the defensive side of the ball?  

 

[gobiggergoredder]

There have been guys who were playing in Year 1 of Frost that are still playing now and performing worse now than in Year 1.  Adrian Martinez is just one example.  While I do think there are a few players that have shown improvement like Cam Taylor, there seem to be far more that have remained stagnant or even regressed.  Even those players that did not start playing until Year 2 of Frost should be showing some signs of improvement this year.  Good coaches and programs do not need 3 years to see the first signs of improvement in players.

I still think the biggest transformation I've seen so far was Lamar Jackson.  He was horrendous when this staff arrived.  He will never go down in the record books, nor should he, but he was a reasonable DB when he completed his time as a Husker.

I still believe, i'm starting to beat this to death, that the majority of these team problems are in the QB room.  Frost has no one to execute the offense.   It compounds the other issues (RB, WR, OL). Yes, there are some head scratching calls (RB passes to flat constantly or stretch plays).  

Think about the situation he was in.

• He could have had Burrow.  He remained loyal to a player the switched commitments to him (AM).  POB Leaves.
  
• He put AM on the field and Gebbia Transferred.
  
• AM has a break out Freshman Season. Bunch Leaves.
  
• AM struggles his Sophmore season. Vedral Leaves.
  
• AM struggles his Junior season.  LM struggles worse in his Freshman season.
  

He's had to manage a constantly revolving QB door.  He hitched his wagon to AM, like most anyone else would have done, and it just hasn't worked.    The fact that AM has struggled and there really is no alternative is the main reason why the offense has struggled in my opinion.  I'm growing tired of seeing fire this coach, fire that coach.  You have to be able to hit an open receiver 12 yards down field if you want to win.  This team is not capable of that right now.  The plays are available, we just can't take advantage of them.

Needs to get a QB in pronto.  Move LM to some kind of utility position and start preparing for AM to transfer.  LM needs touches, but not at QB.  Hope like hell Smother's is calm enough in the pocket to execute a short and mid range passing game.  That will open up the running attack and the occasional deep ball.