I hope Turner or another QB gets a long hard look this offseason.

[knapplc]

I just cruised through the last page-and-a-half of this thread. Really good debate, everyone. I enjoyed reading this more than most articles written by journalists over the last year-ish.

I +1'd a lot of posts. Keep it coming. This is why HuskerBoard is so freakin' awesome.

 

[H2h]

Warrior I understand I'm not going to change your opinion on Big 10 defenses, but after seeing South Carolina, where does that defense stack up in the big 10 in your eyes?

Sorry about just now getting back to ya, but I would put South Carolina in the top tear of the Big 10 if not the top. Don't get me wrong, they have their weaknesses as we exposed in the first half. But as far as an overall defense they would pry be at the top, not just in the Big 10 but in the country.

Warrior I agree with your assessment. Footballs weird. If we just capitalize on our opportunities in the first half we're probably on here today saying how their defense wasn't as good as advertised. But their defense made game changing plays, so their reputation prevails.

 

[True2tRA]

Bo came into this program saying that every position was an open competition every week. I don't know why that has changed but it has definitely changed there is no debate about that. It has not been open competition with many positions but two of them have been very obvious to me. The fact that Courtney Osborne has not been on the field tells me there is more to it than just competition. Osborne was the most dominant safety we've had on the field in a while last year. Then he vanishes? The other position is quarterback. Bo has been offended repeatedly when anyone has even asked a question about Martinez and the quarterback position. All you hear is that it's not even close. I've been told repeatedly that Carnes is not ready. Kind of funny when Brion came out a few weeks ago and said himself that he was ready if needed.

The OP and title stated it perfectly. Every quarterback on this roster deserves a legitimate look this year. The job should not just be handed to Martinez because of his experience. No other schools do that, and there's no reason Nebraska should.

 

[TheW0rld]

On the original thread topic of someone other than Martinez getting a hard look this offseason don't hold your breath. What I've been able to read about the backup QB situation from those who say they get insider information is that the coaches don't think Carnes is the guy with a big part of it being mental. I don't understand it and have a hard time believing it after seeing the spring game which is his only real on the field audition so far, but there it is. If that is the case they had to know this prior to having Turner switch to receiver so I scratch my head even more. I think Bo is going to stick with Martinez no matter what. I'd like to see Turner get a shot, a real shot, but I just don't think it is going to happen.

 

[Warrior10]

Warrior I understand I'm not going to change your opinion on Big 10 defenses, but after seeing South Carolina, where does that defense stack up in the big 10 in your eyes?

Sorry about just now getting back to ya, but I would put South Carolina in the top tear of the Big 10 if not the top. Don't get me wrong, they have their weaknesses as we exposed in the first half. But as far as an overall defense they would pry be at the top, not just in the Big 10 but in the country.

Warrior I agree with your assessment. Footballs weird. If we just capitalize on our opportunities in the first half we're probably on here today saying how their defense wasn't as good as advertised. But their defense made game changing plays, so their reputation prevails.

Exactly. At halftime I sat there thinking, "this is a top tier SEC defense"? But then they showed me why.

 

[Hunter94]

Warrior I understand I'm not going to change your opinion on Big 10 defenses, but after seeing South Carolina, where does that defense stack up in the big 10 in your eyes?

Sorry about just now getting back to ya, but I would put South Carolina in the top tear of the Big 10 if not the top. Don't get me wrong, they have their weaknesses as we exposed in the first half. But as far as an overall defense they would pry be at the top, not just in the Big 10 but in the country.

Warrior I agree with your assessment. Footballs weird. If we just capitalize on our opportunities in the first half we're probably on here today saying how their defense wasn't as good as advertised. But their defense made game changing plays, so their reputation prevails.

Exactly. At halftime I sat there thinking, "this is a top tier SEC defense"? But then they showed me why.

sounds like after they made adjustments, we didn't.......out coached by Spurrier.

 

[ladyhawke]

Martinez goes 10-16 with 3-4 drops and we call him into question? Even the pass at Burkheads finger tips was well thrown...just led him 8 inches too far.

Just because a pass is a spiral doesn't mean it is well thrown. But, I guess it was Rex's fault for not growing that extra inch back in 8th grade.

Martinez sprays it around folks. You can blame all the drops on the receivers, but they aren't. When a pass is supposed to be placed at point X, and it consistently is placed anywhere but point X, it is a recipe for the dropsies.

But don't you think that some of those drops were because the WR started turning before the ball got to them instead of waiting to catch the ball then take off. I saw that at least once.

 

[bshirt]

Ha ha wow! The difference is when they ran, they ran for open field or broke the tackle getting to it. You can talk about O-Lines all day but Taylor doesn't possess near the instincts those three men did.

The difference when they ran was what kind of blocking they had. You can talk about vague qualities like instincts all day long but Taylor doesn't have 10% as good of Oline as those three did.

 

[centralFLhusker]

I really wish they would have gone to Carnes late in the game yesterday after it was clear we would not come back. The simple fact is that until we find a more reliable QB and more recievers like Kenny Bell that can catch, our offense will struggle. When I look back at the season , I find it hard to think of an opposing quarterback that I wouldn't take over Martinez. The only obvious exceptions would have been Chattanoogas, Minnesotas and Wyomings. But even Fresno States-Carr and Washingtons-Price,along with all the bigger named QB's the huskers faced were better or outplayed Martinez. Dennard Robinson and Martinez were always compared last year, and this year Robinson put Taylor Martinez to shame, he was clearly miles ahead of Martinez.Unless he fixes his throwing motion and footwork, and his vision, scrambling, and pocket presence gets better his stats will be much the same if not get worse.

 

[BigWillie]

The biggest thing that separated Taylor from the rest of our QBs is his running. In the open field, Taylor is as fast as anyone. This year, he didn't have that same burst the entire year. Even more, he was NOWHERE near the same runner. Just some stats as a runner ..

First 2 games ..

UTC: 19 rushes, 135 yards, 7.1 YPC, 3 TDs ; 2 rushes of 20+ yards

Fresno: 15 rushes, 166 yards, 11.1 YPC, 2 TDs ; 3 rushes of 20+ yards

Totals: 34 rushes, 301 yards, 8.9 YPC, 5 TDs ; 5 rushes of 20+ yards

Final 11 games ..

Total: 154 carries, 573 yards, 3.7 YPC, 4 TDs ; 2 rushes of 20+ yards

If Taylor is not able to be a legitimate home run threat on his runs, given his huge deficiencies as a passer, how much is he really giving this offense? There is no injury excuse to be given this year for him.

Two things I know people will point out ..

Taylor was running to protect himself, as even I (BigWillie) said he should do. Yes, but I did not want him to run scared either. Too many times this year we saw him tense up on contact, or even stop running when he felt he was going to get contact. In all honesty, him doing that was more likely to get him hurt than him lowering his head for more yardage. Simply put, you cannot run scared.

Teams keyed on him and took away his running opportunities. Teams didn't key on him last year? Teams didn't key on the numerous other running QBs we have had over history? Great runners still make plays regardless. The difference in those runners from the past and Taylor is that Taylor is a straight line runner. If our line, or the defense, can give Taylor a straight line hole, he will look amazing. But if a team forces Taylor to move laterally, plant his foot in the ground and be a decisive runner, then Taylor's effectiveness drops ALOT. Unlike Taylor's passing, this isn't something he can or will suddenly improve on. You either have instincts and quickness as a runner, or you do not.

I think we can all agree that Taylor is an athlete playing QB. He is not prototypical, and limits what we can do as an offense vertically. Even the strongest of Taylor fans can surely agree to that.

My question to anyone - with the type of receivers we have now recruited into this team, why are we limiting our offense with a QB who struggles to get them more opportunities to be the playmakers they are (Reed at TE, Turner, Bell, Enunwa)? Does it do our offense justice by recruiting these type of athletes, only to have them blocking for a majority of the game? Does it do them justice to not allow them to get the ball in windows where they actually are open but our current QB doesn't have the confidence or ability to throw the ball into?

Fact is, we recruited a damm fine crop of RBs. We have 4 more than capable RBs in Burkhead, Abdullah, Green and Heard. Between those 4, we have a quartet of RBs who are more than capable of handling the running workload.

Is there a true need to have a running QB when we have the type of talent we do at RB? Is there a true need to have a running QB who struggles to throw when we have the athletes at receiver that we do?

With that said, I do agree that Taylor did limit his bad mistakes unlike last year. But overall, did he improve that much as a passer?

2010: 59.2%, 1631 yards, 10 TDs, 7 INTs

2011: 56.3%, 2089 yards, 13 TDs, 8 INTs

Yes, I know, the drops. But with a QB who struggles with accuracy like Taylor, that ball is always coming out awkward to these receivers. With the drops, the receivers made quite a few great catches to save Taylor's butt as well this year. Those things tend to even themselves out. But people will always remember the drops more than the catches that bail the QB out. Do not get me wrong, the drops, especially from Kinnie, drove me insane. But can anyone honestly tell me with a straight face the reason we struggle passing is due to the drops?

In the end, I just want a QB that doesn't stagnate the offense to being one dimensional. But I also want a QB who can keep our offense moving by spreading the ball around to our many weapons, rather than forcing Rex Burkhead to go 'Superman' to keep our offense moving.

/cuebigwillieisjusthatingtayloragainposts

 

[Hercules]

BigWillie, I think everyone wants a QB who can distribute the ball to his playmakers. I think where people disagree is the degree to which Taylor is actually limiting the offense. People like me saw that he was 10/16 with a few drops by receivers yesterday, and see the flood of mistakes made by the offensive line, so I'm not going to come anywhere close to saying that Taylor is the problem with our offense when he's playing fine and everybody else is crapping their pants.

I'd also disagree with you about how much he contributes to the running game - we have backup running backs who could take Taylor's carries, but the running game wouldn't be as dynamic without a runner at QB. Having a runner at QB forces the defense to play everyone on the field, as opposed to just rotating different guys at running back with the same QB handing the ball off to them every time.

Furthermore, if we're going to use the option game as much as we do, we have to have a runner at QB. If you're suggesting we change systems AGAIN, then we're putting ourselves out of conference championship contention for the foreseeable future. We have to let Beck work, recruit the athletes he wants, and see how the offense develops over time (even beyond Martinez's tenure).

As far as changing QBs at this point in the program, right now - does anyone really think that Brion Carnes would have changed the outcome of yesterday's game? Would he have changed the outcome of a single game this season? MAYBE Wisconsin would have been less lopsided without Taylor's three picks. But do we beat Washington? Fresno State? Ohio State? What would have Carnes been able to do differently than Martinez in order to change the outcomes of the Northwestern, Michigan, or South Carolina games?

 

[beanman]

Ha ha wow! The difference is when they ran, they ran for open field or broke the tackle getting to it. You can talk about O-Lines all day but Taylor doesn't possess near the instincts those three men did.

The difference when they ran was what kind of blocking they had. You can talk about vague qualities like instincts all day long but Taylor doesn't have 10% as good of Oline as those three did.

He also doesn't have 10% of those vague qualities like instincts(see all the QB draw plays where he is normally sideways getting clobbered or when the pocket collapses and he looks completely lost). Not sure how you can say the offensive line isn't 10% as good. I mean, we did rush for over 200 yds per game, so that makes it more like 50 - 60% good since you are so big on statistics.

 

[centralFLhusker]

Hercules i agree with your point about Carnes not being able to change the outcome of yesterday or being able to win the games that we did, however unless Martinez makes some serious strides with his passing and pocket presence, his next two years will be much of the same. I just thought playing Carnes, would give him some experience and show the coaches whether he has what it takes or not. I would just like to see why the coaches don't think Carnes is talented enough, when Martinez clearly is not that great of a qb.

 

[zoogs]

We do not. Martinez is not a drop back passer.

More like Martinez is not a passer.

As far as his middling passing goes, some of his best throws have come from in the pocket, going deep downfield. He is better in the pocket than he is rolling out, I think the token amount of rollouts we've seen him do is evidence of that. He's been OK at best here. As an example of someone who did real damage to us on the rollouts - I believe it was the freshman, non-mobile Fresno State QB, Derek Carr.

Beck needs to quit pulling a Wats and make us a run first ie RB/FB power team with play action and roll out passes our bread and butter.

How are we NOT a run first team that tries to hit the defense with deep playaction passes to keep them honest?

I think Martinez is more limited than you might think. It is not that two straight offensive coordinators have failed to realize the best use of the guy's talents: it is that he has three-to-four years, total, of QB experience under his belt and we have to work with all that inexperience.

Undoubtedly he brings something to the table, but it doesn't let us throw out any kind of package we want to. If it were that easy to maximize effectiveness from an athlete, we would throw in any old WR or RB at QB more often.

This is a spot-on point and really something to chew on:

If Taylor is not able to be a legitimate home run threat on his runs, given his huge deficiencies as a passer, how much is he really giving this offense?

 

[Igetbored216]

Taylor did not lose the game for us... Had Abdullah not fumbled and Jeffry not caught that bomb at the end of the second quarter, it would have been a different game. You cannot go into the red zone TWICE against a good team like SC and come away empty handed. TWICE! We should have gone up 20-9 and it didn't happen. Instead SC takes a 16-13 lead. That's demoralizing...Our O-line also looked HORRIBLE in pass protection. Credit SC's D-line though. They were beasts. The better team won pure and simple. We need better line play to beat better teams. Games are won in the trenches... Have we all forgotten this?

He didn't win the game for NU either.

Look, go watch many of the other bowl games yesterday. Lots of teams suffered turnovers. Lots of teams faced "adversity."

Several of them fought through, fought back, won.

NU showed again that when the going gets rough, well, it will just get rougher. There is a trend there that is unmistakable.

Bingo. We have a winner. I don't need to read any further.

Martinez still has alot of work to do, but the problems on this team go much higher up than the QB.

Once is a fluke, twice is a coincidence, and three times is a trend. How many times have we seen these epic meltdowns; not only this year, but in previous years under Pelini? It almost reminds me of Bo losing his composure on the sideline and ripping into the ref for six or seven plays after the penalty was called. This team is the epitome of Bo Pelini.