If Stephen Fry Met God . . .

[maskershake]

The thing is, christianity isn't even an original idea. There are several instances where it has been copied from a previous religion. What makes all those other religions wrong?

Examples please

https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/jksadegh/A%20Good%20Atheist%20Secularist%20Skeptical%20Book%20Collection/Parallels_between_Jesus_and_Horus_an_Egyptian_God.pdf

This is just the similarities of the Jesus story to Horus. Not trying to start an argument, just noting that there are other religions that were around long before chrisitianity. And they all have similar ideas, so to think that 'yours' is the only right one... I just think it's kind of arrogant.

Yeah, figured you'd link something with supposed Horus parallels. They're cherrypicking straw men.

I won't waste my time debunking all of them, because it is, in fact, a waste of time, but just as a few examples:

Horus wasn't born of a virgin. He was born of a magically fashioned golden phallus by Isis, who then impregnated herself.

There is no "Anup the Baptizer" in any Egyptian mythos. Anywhere. That is the brain child of Gerald Massey, who happens to not have any reputable regard by pretty much anyone other than people trying to invent Christ/Horus parallels.

Horus was born sometime in Oct/Nov, and there is no record of when Jesus was actually born - Christians later adopted the winter solstice in order to celebrate and worship in safety from persecution.

Horus didn't have twelve disciples - he had four demigods that followed him around, and some traditions have 16 human followers, and some blacksmiths and stuff, but nowhere is there mention of 12 disciples or anything close.

Fair enough. I won't go too far into it either but it doesn't change the fact that there were religions before the 'christian' faith. What makes the christian faith right? What makes any of them right?

I swear, if we were all gone tomorrow and a few hundred years from now humans started evolving again we would be worshiping the X-Men as our Greek mythology and Superman would be our Jesus story.

 

[NUance]

The thing is, christianity isn't even an original idea. There are several instances where it has been copied from a previous religion. What makes all those other religions wrong?

Examples please

https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/jksadegh/A%20Good%20Atheist%20Secularist%20Skeptical%20Book%20Collection/Parallels_between_Jesus_and_Horus_an_Egyptian_God.pdf

This is just the similarities of the Jesus story to Horus. Not trying to start an argument, just noting that there are other religions that were around long before chrisitianity. And they all have similar ideas, so to think that 'yours' is the only right one... I just think it's kind of arrogant.

Yeah, figured you'd link something with supposed Horus parallels. They're cherrypicking straw men.

I won't waste my time debunking all of them, because it is, in fact, a waste of time, but just as a few examples:

Horus wasn't born of a virgin. He was born of a magically fashioned golden phallus by Isis, who then impregnated herself.

There is no "Anup the Baptizer" in any Egyptian mythos. Anywhere. That is the brain child of Gerald Massey, who happens to not have any reputable regard by pretty much anyone other than people trying to invent Christ/Horus parallels.

Horus was born sometime in Oct/Nov, and there is no record of when Jesus was actually born - Christians later adopted the winter solstice in order to celebrate and worship in safety from persecution.

Horus didn't have twelve disciples - he had four demigods that followed him around, and some traditions have 16 human followers, and some blacksmiths and stuff, but nowhere is there mention of 12 disciples or anything close.

Fair enough. I won't go too far into it either but it doesn't change the fact that there were religions before the 'christian' faith. What makes the christian faith right? What makes any of them right?

I swear, if we were all gone tomorrow and a few hundred years from now humans started evolving again we would be worshiping the X-Men as our Greek mythology and Superman would be our Jesus story.

Worshiping X-Men and Superman. Ha ha! You're probly right. They would be the new false religions. Except these new religions would have no Holy Spirit. Many of the figures in the bible who devoted their lives to God and were eventually killed for it were led by the Holy Spirit. Anyone who has not personally experienced the Holy Spirit[SIZE=11pt]—both [/SIZE]Christians as well as non-Christians[SIZE=11pt]—[/SIZE]have a hard time understanding the Holy Spirit. Let alone believing that it's a real part of Christianity. But it is. And people who are imbued with the Holy Spirit devote their lives to God and Jesus. They would rather be killed than renounce their faith.

I don't expect to change your mind by telling you this. In fact, I halfway expect ridicule. I'm just putting this out there for your consideration. The Holy Spirit is a real thing. It existed back in the days of the Apostles. And it exists today. It doesn't come to everyone. (I don't know why.) But those lucky few who experience it would never deny it. Or deny God.

 

[NUinID]

Here is the thing I don't understand, why is it that so many people that are atheists feel the need to try and convince a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu or any other person that is strong in some faith that there is no God or Gods for that matter. I am a Christian, I really don't push my views on others too much, so maybe I am not all that strong in my faith.

Why is it so important to prove to someone there is no God?

 

[Landlord]

Fair enough. I won't go too far into it either but it doesn't change the fact that there were religions before the 'christian' faith. What makes the christian faith right?

The resurrection. The entire Christian faith hinges on Jesus resurrecting from the dead.

Here is the thing I don't understand, why is it that so many people that are atheists feel the need to try and convince a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu or any other person that is strong in some faith that there is no God or Gods for that matter. I am a Christian, I really don't push my views on others too much, so maybe I am not all that strong in my faith.

Why is it so important to prove to someone there is no God?

If you care about someone, you want to see them live their life to the fullest. If you are a Christian, and you take it seriously, it's a natural progression that you want to convince other people that it is true, because there are consequences for not living your life in accordance. Not just the whole hell bit, but a big part of the gospel is that Jesus provides peace that passes understanding, hope in hopeless situations, and rest that is absolute and not dependent on circumstances.

Further, if you are an atheist, you want to convince people that their faith isn't real, because if those people are taking their faith seriously then you believe they are wasting their lives, and you don't want to see people you love wasting their lives. If I am giving away my money, sacrificing my time, centering my relations around false principles and devoting myself to something that isn't real, I would hope someone would come knock some sense into me if they were confident that it was a waste of time.

 

[NUinID]

Fair enough. I won't go too far into it either but it doesn't change the fact that there were religions before the 'christian' faith. What makes the christian faith right?

The resurrection. The entire Christian faith hinges on Jesus resurrecting from the dead.

Here is the thing I don't understand, why is it that so many people that are atheists feel the need to try and convince a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu or any other person that is strong in some faith that there is no God or Gods for that matter. I am a Christian, I really don't push my views on others too much, so maybe I am not all that strong in my faith.

Why is it so important to prove to someone there is no God?

If you care about someone, you want to see them live their life to the fullest. If you are a Christian, and you take it seriously, it's a natural progression that you want to convince other people that it is true, because there are consequences for not living your life in accordance. Not just the whole hell bit, but a big part of the gospel is that Jesus provides peace that passes understanding, hope in hopeless situations, and rest that is absolute and not dependent on circumstances.

Further, if you are an atheist, you want to convince people that their faith isn't real, because if those people are taking their faith seriously then you believe they are wasting their lives, and you don't want to see people you love wasting their lives. If I am giving away my money, sacrificing my time, centering my relations around false principles and devoting myself to something that isn't real, I would hope someone would come knock some sense into me if they were confident that it was a waste of time.

Why is it wasting their lives? Many Christians that are not too radical do a lot of good in the world, with their time and money aside from the Christian aspect of it. If they do those good things helping others why does it matter if it is in the name of Jesus Christ. Not to say that you can't do humanitarian and philanthropic things without it being based in religion, but the fact that it may be should have no bearing on that.

Besides, if it brings someone peace of mind why do non believers care?

If an atheist dies and there is no afterlife, than I guess he wins. It still doesn't mean that someone who is a devout Christian wasted his/her life.

 

[Landlord]

If an atheist dies and there is no afterlife, than I guess he wins. It still doesn't mean that someone who is a devout Christian wasted his/her life.

Then they weren't really that devout.

 

[walksalone]

So you know that question about what would you say to God if you met him at the pearly gates? Stephen Fry has a pretty cogent answer.

Heaven forbid this guy speak his mind...

 

[JJ Husker]

So you know that question about what would you say to God if you met him at the pearly gates? Stephen Fry has a pretty cogent answer.

 

[walksalone]

Actually...........heaven probably does forbid this guy speaking his mind. Something tells me he won't ever get to test the policy though.

Why don't you guys get together and bequeath him two fisted christian justice for his transgressions...

 

[JJ Husker]

Actually...........heaven probably does forbid this guy speaking his mind. Something tells me he won't ever get to test the policy though.

Why don't you guys get together and bequeath him two fisted christian justice for his transgressions...

Not really my thing. I don't have a problem with him speaking his mind. I was just having fun with your "heaven forbid" comment. Chill out.

 

[maskershake]

The thing is, christianity isn't even an original idea. There are several instances where it has been copied from a previous religion. What makes all those other religions wrong?

Examples please

https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/jksadegh/A%20Good%20Atheist%20Secularist%20Skeptical%20Book%20Collection/Parallels_between_Jesus_and_Horus_an_Egyptian_God.pdf

This is just the similarities of the Jesus story to Horus. Not trying to start an argument, just noting that there are other religions that were around long before chrisitianity. And they all have similar ideas, so to think that 'yours' is the only right one... I just think it's kind of arrogant.

Yeah, figured you'd link something with supposed Horus parallels. They're cherrypicking straw men.

I won't waste my time debunking all of them, because it is, in fact, a waste of time, but just as a few examples:

Horus wasn't born of a virgin. He was born of a magically fashioned golden phallus by Isis, who then impregnated herself.

There is no "Anup the Baptizer" in any Egyptian mythos. Anywhere. That is the brain child of Gerald Massey, who happens to not have any reputable regard by pretty much anyone other than people trying to invent Christ/Horus parallels.

Horus was born sometime in Oct/Nov, and there is no record of when Jesus was actually born - Christians later adopted the winter solstice in order to celebrate and worship in safety from persecution.

Horus didn't have twelve disciples - he had four demigods that followed him around, and some traditions have 16 human followers, and some blacksmiths and stuff, but nowhere is there mention of 12 disciples or anything close.

Fair enough. I won't go too far into it either but it doesn't change the fact that there were religions before the 'christian' faith. What makes the christian faith right? What makes any of them right?

I swear, if we were all gone tomorrow and a few hundred years from now humans started evolving again we would be worshiping the X-Men as our Greek mythology and Superman would be our Jesus story.

Worshiping X-Men and Superman. Ha ha! You're probly right. They would be the new false religions. Except these new religions would have no Holy Spirit. Many of the figures in the bible who devoted their lives to God and were eventually killed for it were led by the Holy Spirit. Anyone who has not personally experienced the Holy Spirit[SIZE=11pt]—both [/SIZE]Christians as well as non-Christians[SIZE=11pt]—[/SIZE]have a hard time understanding the Holy Spirit. Let alone believing that it's a real part of Christianity. But it is. And people who are imbued with the Holy Spirit devote their lives to God and Jesus. They would rather be killed than renounce their faith.

I don't expect to change your mind by telling you this. In fact, I halfway expect ridicule. I'm just putting this out there for your consideration. The Holy Spirit is a real thing. It existed back in the days of the Apostles. And it exists today. It doesn't come to everyone. (I don't know why.) But those lucky few who experience it would never deny it. Or deny God.

Nah, your fine man. As long as religion doesn't get pushed on me i dont really care. We're all free to believe what we will. I used to believe, for 20 years I did. I just turned a different page

Gonna add to this. - As long as religion doesn't get pushed on me or anybody else, i dont really care. I can't stand seeing people forcing/pushing religion on others. Let them figure it out, it's their life. "if it's meant to be" then they will join your religion. "if it's just not meant to be" then, obviously, they won't.

And, yes, this goes for non-believers as well.

 

[Landlord]

Gonna add to this. - As long as religion doesn't get pushed on me or anybody else, i dont really care. I can't stand seeing people forcing/pushing religion on others. Let them figure it out, it's their life. "if it's meant to be" then they will join your religion. "if it's just not meant to be" then, obviously, they won't.

And, yes, this goes for non-believers as well.

I hear this a lot, and I get the mindset, but it makes me ask a question.

Can you give me an example specifically where you have seen religion be forced on someone?

 

[darkhorse85]

The thing is, christianity isn't even an original idea. There are several instances where it has been copied from a previous religion. What makes all those other religions wrong?

Examples please

https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/jksadegh/A%20Good%20Atheist%20Secularist%20Skeptical%20Book%20Collection/Parallels_between_Jesus_and_Horus_an_Egyptian_God.pdf

This is just the similarities of the Jesus story to Horus. Not trying to start an argument, just noting that there are other religions that were around long before chrisitianity. And they all have similar ideas, so to think that 'yours' is the only right one... I just think it's kind of arrogant.

Yeah, figured you'd link something with supposed Horus parallels. They're cherrypicking straw men.

I won't waste my time debunking all of them, because it is, in fact, a waste of time, but just as a few examples:

Horus wasn't born of a virgin. He was born of a magically fashioned golden phallus by Isis, who then impregnated herself.

There is no "Anup the Baptizer" in any Egyptian mythos. Anywhere. That is the brain child of Gerald Massey, who happens to not have any reputable regard by pretty much anyone other than people trying to invent Christ/Horus parallels.

Horus was born sometime in Oct/Nov, and there is no record of when Jesus was actually born - Christians later adopted the winter solstice in order to celebrate and worship in safety from persecution.

Horus didn't have twelve disciples - he had four demigods that followed him around, and some traditions have 16 human followers, and some blacksmiths and stuff, but nowhere is there mention of 12 disciples or anything close.

I really hope you're not trying to pass this off as your own.

 

[Landlord]

The thing is, christianity isn't even an original idea. There are several instances where it has been copied from a previous religion. What makes all those other religions wrong?

Examples please

https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/jksadegh/A%20Good%20Atheist%20Secularist%20Skeptical%20Book%20Collection/Parallels_between_Jesus_and_Horus_an_Egyptian_God.pdf

This is just the similarities of the Jesus story to Horus. Not trying to start an argument, just noting that there are other religions that were around long before chrisitianity. And they all have similar ideas, so to think that 'yours' is the only right one... I just think it's kind of arrogant.

Yeah, figured you'd link something with supposed Horus parallels. They're cherrypicking straw men.

I won't waste my time debunking all of them, because it is, in fact, a waste of time, but just as a few examples:

Horus wasn't born of a virgin. He was born of a magically fashioned golden phallus by Isis, who then impregnated herself.

There is no "Anup the Baptizer" in any Egyptian mythos. Anywhere. That is the brain child of Gerald Massey, who happens to not have any reputable regard by pretty much anyone other than people trying to invent Christ/Horus parallels.

Horus was born sometime in Oct/Nov, and there is no record of when Jesus was actually born - Christians later adopted the winter solstice in order to celebrate and worship in safety from persecution.

Horus didn't have twelve disciples - he had four demigods that followed him around, and some traditions have 16 human followers, and some blacksmiths and stuff, but nowhere is there mention of 12 disciples or anything close.

I really hope you're not trying to pass this off as your own.

Of course not, I'm no scholar on ancient Egyptian mythology.

 

[knapplc]

Can you give me an example specifically where you have seen religion be forced on someone?

Take a dollar bill out of your wallet. Find the words "In God We Trust."

Recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Stop when you get to the part about "God."

Note the activities of the Westboro Baptists. Note the activities of ISIS/ISIL.

Those are current examples.

From the last century, a great example is the Scopes Trial in response to the Butler Act.

Which reminds me of 2005 in Kansas, where they tried to insert Intelligent Design into school curricula.

There are many, many examples. We could talk about Salem and the witch trials. Numerous examples from history, from dozens of religions.

The natural response to all this, I suppose, would be to say that none of these things has happened to me, therefore this is all an exaggeration. But while none of these things have happened to me specifically, neither has my house been robbed - but that doesn't mean I shouldn't lock my doors, and take precautions in case it does.