If Stephen Fry Met God . . .

[Landlord]

Not really. Either every word of the Bible is to be taken at face value, or not. And I can assure you it is 100% treated like a buffet where Christians pick and choose what they want to adhere to. This is not even debatable, or they would be striving to make a society that would very closely resemble what ISIS is doing.

What do you mean by face value? What's with everyone selling literary genre and interpretation study so short all of the sudden? Face value is definitely not the way the Bible was intended to be taken.

As to your last sentence, I don't understand that at all either. The central tenants of Christianity are love God and love people. A lot of Christians are striving towards changing society, but the ones that can be linked to ISIS in any way, shape, or form, aren't Christians.

See, you are already into the buffet mentality. Not at face value. You either get to claim "The Word of The Lord" like clergy are prone to using, or you have a book that has more in common with The Brothers Grimm.

Your book of love openly calls for women who have premarital sex to be stoned to death. For those who curse their parents, to be put to death. Adultery, death. Apostates, death. It openly condones slavery, and has rules regarding it even. Who is actively trying to create a place with rules exactly like these? ISIS.

There is no dichotomy between the Bible being God's word and taking the Bible at face value. I still can, and do, believe the Bible is inspired, is inerrant, and also strive to take all of it rather than pick and choose, while not taking it at face value. Face value means you take what appears to you as the most simple and obvious reading and don't dig any deeper into it, which isn't exactly wise to do with a book written across millenia in cultures that we are removed from.

Here, I'll give you a quick example. Jesus said to turn the other cheek when someone strikes you. Now, face value, all this is is an action, turning my head back the other direction, and doesn't really have a lesson.

If I dive into it, though, and don't take it at face value, I start learning, specifically about how in his culture, superiors slapped with their backhand as a symbolic representation of power over others. Turning the other cheek exposed the injustice of the system, because if they wanted to hit you again, they would have to use the front of their hand, which signified you as being equal.

 

[strigori]

The method you are describing is exactly what I would call the buffet. The crimes and punishments I listed are directly out the the Bible, from the exact same chapter where people pull the justification for being anti-gay. Also the same chapter that would prohibit eating bacon, or any other pork product. During the Enlightenment and Renaissance Western culture changed and aspects like I listed were no longer enforced. Basically, Christianity did what it has always done, changed to continue its existence. If the crimes and punishments from the Old Testament were sought to be enforced in the modern world, it would vanish. Western culture simply will not tolerate 1st century mentalities in the modern world.

 

[strigori]

I'm sure he's only counting from the time the Christians conquered the places the first time. A good chunk of the Old Testament tells tales of conquest, including the slaughter of children. Its interesting that for a religion that likes to make itself out to be the only true one that existed from the dawn of time, there were a hell of a lot of other religions in the area and mentioned repeatedly by the Bible itself.

You're 100%, but remember, they're all about love and if you don't agree with them, they'll f*cking kill you...

Makes sense, as it is originally a cult to a Canaanite war god.

 

[Landlord]

The method you are describing is exactly what I would call the buffet. The crimes and punishments I listed are directly out the the Bible, from the exact same chapter where people pull the justification for being anti-gay. Also the same chapter that would prohibit eating bacon, or any other pork product. During the Enlightenment and Renaissance Western culture changed and aspects like I listed were no longer enforced. Basically, Christianity did what it has always done, changed to continue its existence. If the crimes and punishments from the Old Testament were sought to be enforced in the modern world, it would vanish. Western culture simply will not tolerate 1st century mentalities in the modern world.

Are you familiar with the distinction between old and new covenants?

 

[walksalone]

I'm sure he's only counting from the time the Christians conquered the places the first time. A good chunk of the Old Testament tells tales of conquest, including the slaughter of children. Its interesting that for a religion that likes to make itself out to be the only true one that existed from the dawn of time, there were a hell of a lot of other religions in the area and mentioned repeatedly by the Bible itself.

You're 100%, but remember, they're all about love and if you don't agree with them, they'll f*cking kill you...

Makes sense, as it is originally a cult to a Canaanite war god.

Yeah, but LoMS doesn't want you to know he secretly worships Zuul...

 

[knapplc]

Reading the responses from the Christians in this thread is like a walk down memory lane. I made all the same arguments. I knew all the same responses.

 

[StPaulHusker]

I'm sure he's only counting from the time the Christians conquered the places the first time. A good chunk of the Old Testament tells tales of conquest, including the slaughter of children. Its interesting that for a religion that likes to make itself out to be the only true one that existed from the dawn of time, there were a hell of a lot of other religions in the area and mentioned repeatedly by the Bible itself.

You're 100%, but remember, they're all about love and if you don't agree with them, they'll f*cking kill you...

Makes sense, as it is originally a cult to a Canaanite war god.

Yeah, but LoMS doesn't want you to know he secretly worships Zuul...

Don't we all in some way?

 

[walksalone]

I'm sure he's only counting from the time the Christians conquered the places the first time. A good chunk of the Old Testament tells tales of conquest, including the slaughter of children. Its interesting that for a religion that likes to make itself out to be the only true one that existed from the dawn of time, there were a hell of a lot of other religions in the area and mentioned repeatedly by the Bible itself.

You're 100%, but remember, they're all about love and if you don't agree with them, they'll f*cking kill you...

Makes sense, as it is originally a cult to a Canaanite war god.

Yeah, but LoMS doesn't want you to know he secretly worships Zuul...

Don't we all in some way?

But Sigorney Weaver, not as hot...

 

[VectorVictor]

I'm sure he's only counting from the time the Christians conquered the places the first time. A good chunk of the Old Testament tells tales of conquest, including the slaughter of children. Its interesting that for a religion that likes to make itself out to be the only true one that existed from the dawn of time, there were a hell of a lot of other religions in the area and mentioned repeatedly by the Bible itself.

You're 100%, but remember, they're all about love and if you don't agree with them, they'll f*cking kill you...

That's the Tea Party for you--they're all about love, and if you don't agree, they'll f*****g kill you.

I suppose it would make for a good 2016 Presidential Campaign slogan for Ted Cruz, at any rate.

 

[TGHusker]

I'm sure he's only counting from the time the Christians conquered the places the first time. A good chunk of the Old Testament tells tales of conquest, including the slaughter of children. Its interesting that for a religion that likes to make itself out to be the only true one that existed from the dawn of time, there were a hell of a lot of other religions in the area and mentioned repeatedly by the Bible itself.

You're 100%, but remember, they're all about love and if you don't agree with them, they'll f*cking kill you...

That's the Tea Party for you--they're all about love, and if you don't agree, they'll f*****g kill you.

I suppose it would make for a good 2016 Presidential Campaign slogan for Ted Cruz, at any rate.

VectorVictor can you not post without labeling people. TP has noting to do wt this thread same as Ted Cruz. You can have some good things to say on different topics but doing the label thing without justification or merit diminishes what you have to say. I'm trying to get away from using the 'liberal' label as a derogatory statement as I understand it causes people to close their ear to what I have to say. I can embrace liberals as being sincere, good willed, American supporting without being derogatory. Knapp's moderation is wearing off onto me.

We all come from different perspectives - some conservative, some liberal - that is not right or wrong in itself. There are some very sincere minded people on the far right (tea party) and some very sincere minded on the far left. That doesn't make them bad people - just a different perspective in how to fix a problem or meet a need. Hopefully the center right or the center left can be the answer in most cases as the far extremes have their solutions modified by the process.

Regarding the topic of this thread I'll have more to say later, but I'll add this for now:

We are all skeptics in one way or another. Even believers have moments of doubt (“I believe, help me with my unbelief”). Skeptics range from ‘near belief’ all the way to atheism. On some topics I’m a skeptic – certain political views, certain religious views for example. Thus, I like to think all of us are on the same journey – the journey of finding truth in our lives and a world view that makes sense of life. It does no good to show the arrogance of thinking you have cornered the truth on knowledge. There are many brighter lights that have debated this subject throughout the centuries then those of us on this forum. For every ‘believer’ who has become an unbeliever, there are atheists who have become believers – at the highest level of this debate. So criticism of another person’s belief in ‘an invisible friend’ only shows unfounded arrogance in my opinion. Instead we should respect each others path they have walked. We aren't all that different and we can gain from each other in different ways if we allow ourselves the freedom to ‘listen’.

 

[VectorVictor]

I'm sure he's only counting from the time the Christians conquered the places the first time. A good chunk of the Old Testament tells tales of conquest, including the slaughter of children. Its interesting that for a religion that likes to make itself out to be the only true one that existed from the dawn of time, there were a hell of a lot of other religions in the area and mentioned repeatedly by the Bible itself.

You're 100%, but remember, they're all about love and if you don't agree with them, they'll f*cking kill you...

That's the Tea Party for you--they're all about love, and if you don't agree, they'll f*****g kill you.

I suppose it would make for a good 2016 Presidential Campaign slogan for Ted Cruz, at any rate.

VectorVictor can you not post without labeling people. TP has noting to do wt this thread same as Ted Cruz.

I'm sorry you don't care for me labeling things in the same fashion as what was done above.

 

[TGHusker]

I'm sure he's only counting from the time the Christians conquered the places the first time. A good chunk of the Old Testament tells tales of conquest, including the slaughter of children. Its interesting that for a religion that likes to make itself out to be the only true one that existed from the dawn of time, there were a hell of a lot of other religions in the area and mentioned repeatedly by the Bible itself.

You're 100%, but remember, they're all about love and if you don't agree with them, they'll f*cking kill you...

That's the Tea Party for you--they're all about love, and if you don't agree, they'll f*****g kill you.

I suppose it would make for a good 2016 Presidential Campaign slogan for Ted Cruz, at any rate.

VectorVictor can you not post without labeling people. TP has noting to do wt this thread same as Ted Cruz.

I'm sorry you don't care for me labeling things in the same fashion as what was done above.

Yea, don't want to single you out. Sorry about that - I apologize for that.. Yours was just the last post wt the label and I could have been more general. You weren't the 1st to use the TP label.

 

[VectorVictor]

I'm sure he's only counting from the time the Christians conquered the places the first time. A good chunk of the Old Testament tells tales of conquest, including the slaughter of children. Its interesting that for a religion that likes to make itself out to be the only true one that existed from the dawn of time, there were a hell of a lot of other religions in the area and mentioned repeatedly by the Bible itself.

You're 100%, but remember, they're all about love and if you don't agree with them, they'll f*cking kill you...

That's the Tea Party for you--they're all about love, and if you don't agree, they'll f*****g kill you.

I suppose it would make for a good 2016 Presidential Campaign slogan for Ted Cruz, at any rate.

VectorVictor can you not post without labeling people. TP has noting to do wt this thread same as Ted Cruz.

I'm sorry you don't care for me labeling things in the same fashion as what was done above.

Yea, don't want to single you out. Sorry about that - I apologize for that.. Yours was just the last post wt the label and I could have been more general. You weren't the 1st to use the TP label.

That's fine, but if you're going to call people out for labeling, you should also cast an eye towards those were coyly trying to add unjustified labels to non-Christian religions.

 

[StPaulHusker]

I'm sure he's only counting from the time the Christians conquered the places the first time. A good chunk of the Old Testament tells tales of conquest, including the slaughter of children. Its interesting that for a religion that likes to make itself out to be the only true one that existed from the dawn of time, there were a hell of a lot of other religions in the area and mentioned repeatedly by the Bible itself.

You're 100%, but remember, they're all about love and if you don't agree with them, they'll f*cking kill you...

That's the Tea Party for you--they're all about love, and if you don't agree, they'll f*****g kill you.

I suppose it would make for a good 2016 Presidential Campaign slogan for Ted Cruz, at any rate.

VectorVictor can you not post without labeling people. TP has noting to do wt this thread same as Ted Cruz.

I'm sorry you don't care for me labeling things in the same fashion as what was done above.

Yea, don't want to single you out. Sorry about that - I apologize for that.. Yours was just the last post wt the label and I could have been more general. You weren't the 1st to use the TP label.

That's fine, but if you're going to call people out for labeling, you should also cast an eye towards those were coyly trying to add unjustified labels to non-Christian religions.

Those Godless Pagans

 

[VectorVictor]

I'm sure he's only counting from the time the Christians conquered the places the first time. A good chunk of the Old Testament tells tales of conquest, including the slaughter of children. Its interesting that for a religion that likes to make itself out to be the only true one that existed from the dawn of time, there were a hell of a lot of other religions in the area and mentioned repeatedly by the Bible itself.

You're 100%, but remember, they're all about love and if you don't agree with them, they'll f*cking kill you...

That's the Tea Party for you--they're all about love, and if you don't agree, they'll f*****g kill you.

I suppose it would make for a good 2016 Presidential Campaign slogan for Ted Cruz, at any rate.

VectorVictor can you not post without labeling people. TP has noting to do wt this thread same as Ted Cruz.

I'm sorry you don't care for me labeling things in the same fashion as what was done above.

Yea, don't want to single you out. Sorry about that - I apologize for that.. Yours was just the last post wt the label and I could have been more general. You weren't the 1st to use the TP label.

That's fine, but if you're going to call people out for labeling, you should also cast an eye towards those were coyly trying to add unjustified labels to non-Christian religions.

Those Godless Pagans

Pagans aren't godless. They have a veritable plethora of gods and goddesses to choose from.