Is Faith Moral?

[Husker_x]

To both of your posts, in order.

First, depending on the religion we're talking about, including yours, there is a command to proselytize and spread the faith. This command has taken on aggressive and benign forms in the past and the present. Some of them do it almost exclusively by violence and subjugation. Sometimes, even in the bible, groups of people slaughter and enslave a neighboring country because they think their God or gods told them to do it. Beliefs have consequences for good or bad, so don't give me that institution line. Don't you credit your faith for your own good behavior? No one in this thread has been persecuted, so to even bring that up is ridiculous and I think you should apologize for it.

Second, the general education of anyone interested in the discussion, including myself, is the goal. So you can do whatever you want, including not posting if you don't like the topic. Since it seems we have at least three definitions for faith on the table, it could go a lot of places. Try not being so cynical for once and you might learn something like I hope to do.

 

[Husker_x]

When you say you speak to God, do you mean that literally like the Pentecostals do? Does he actually say anything, I mean?

Do you mean do I hear an audible voice? no. Do you mean does He communicate? Yes.

Thanks for clearing that up. But how do you distinguish between your own thoughts/feelings/intentions and a Divine communication?

 

[knapplc]

Try not being so cynical for once and you might learn something like I hope to do.

I loled.

 

[knapplc]

No one in this thread has been persecuted, so to even bring that up is ridiculous and I think you should apologize for it.

I just told you that I felt this thread was a persecution of my faith, and yet I see no apology, only chastising. Conveniently, there are two standards by which you judge morals, I see.

 

[muzicman0]

Thanks for clearing that up. But how do you distinguish between your own thoughts/feelings/intentions and a Divine communication?

Well, first, I decide if it's something that I want to hear...if it is, it must be God...ok, just kidding...

But seriously, I'm not sure that there is a good 'one answer' to that question. All I can say is that the Bible says that 'His sheep know His voice'. Have I ever mis-interpreted his voice? Probably. just being honest.

 

[Husker_x]

No one in this thread has been persecuted, so to even bring that up is ridiculous and I think you should apologize for it.

I just told you that I felt this thread was a persecution of my faith, and yet I see no apology, only chastising. Conveniently, there are two standards by which you judge morals, I see.

Asking if the foundational tenant of your religion is moral is immoral, huh? I'd suggest un-feeling that way and actually considering the issue, or not taking up time complaining about it. No one is persecuting you or subjecting you to anything besides open discussion. If that's what passes for persecution in your circles, life will be tough my friend.

 

[knapplc]

No one in this thread has been persecuted, so to even bring that up is ridiculous and I think you should apologize for it.

I just told you that I felt this thread was a persecution of my faith, and yet I see no apology, only chastising. Conveniently, there are two standards by which you judge morals, I see.

Asking if the foundational tenant of your religion is moral is immoral, huh? I'd suggest un-feeling that way and actually considering the issue, or not taking up time complaining about it. No one is persecuting you or subjecting you to anything besides open discussion. If that's what passes for persecution in your circles, life will be tough my friend.

I didn't say it was immoral, I said it was a persecution of my faith. In much the same way as asking a homosexual to justify their sexual preference would be persecution. Would you tell a gay man that he should stop feeling persecuted by such questions? Really?

 

[Husker_x]

Thanks for clearing that up. But how do you distinguish between your own thoughts/feelings/intentions and a Divine communication?

Well, first, I decide if it's something that I want to hear...if it is, it must be God...ok, just kidding...

But seriously, I'm not sure that there is a good 'one answer' to that question. All I can say is that the Bible says that 'His sheep know His voice'. Have I ever mis-interpreted his voice? Probably. just being honest.

I know this pastor who went someplace and you could tell that he wanted to do something else for his faith. One day he was sitting in a campground and an eagle landed on a branch and he was filled with the sense that he was supposed to start a ministry in this new place. What I can't help but wonder, though, is first how this is any different from the omen-reading of the Roman legions or druidism, and second how one could ever know that it was God's will that this decision was made. I've also know pastors who thought God wanted them to have a ministry elsewhere the failed.

Despite the sideshow of knapplc's cynicism, I am very serious when I say that I wonder what religious people do to handle these seemingly contradictory situations. How can you ever know that God is communicating with you if you recognize that you could be getting the wrong signals?

 

[knapplc]

Despite the sideshow of knapplc's cynicism, I am very serious when I say that I wonder what religious people do to handle these seemingly contradictory situations. How can you ever know that God is communicating with you if you recognize that you could be getting the wrong signals?

You could just as easily have said, "How can a gay man know the urges he has to have a relationship with another man are real, or if he's getting the wrong signals?" That's the problem with this, and every other religion thread you've started.

 

[Husker_x]

No one in this thread has been persecuted, so to even bring that up is ridiculous and I think you should apologize for it.

I just told you that I felt this thread was a persecution of my faith, and yet I see no apology, only chastising. Conveniently, there are two standards by which you judge morals, I see.

Asking if the foundational tenant of your religion is moral is immoral, huh? I'd suggest un-feeling that way and actually considering the issue, or not taking up time complaining about it. No one is persecuting you or subjecting you to anything besides open discussion. If that's what passes for persecution in your circles, life will be tough my friend.

I didn't say it was immoral, I said it was a persecution of my faith. In much the same way as asking a homosexual to justify their sexual preference would be persecution. Would you tell a gay man that he should stop feeling persecuted by such questions? Really?

No, but a gay man answering your preaching against him has the same right that you have when I ask you questions. You can simply not answer them and stop derailing honest conversation. I don't care that you feel open discussion is a persecution of your faith; the fact of the matter is you are under no pressure to talk to me or anyone else. It's a message board. Try the main forum where they persecute Colorado fans by preaching the heresy of Huskerism. Based on your avatar, I think you'll fit right in.

Edit: To your other gay man comment above, I'd answer but I think you already know you're going to have to bust out your 1:1 imperfect analogy thing again before I even say anything.

 

[knapplc]

So, if you ran across a theist proselytizing to atheists, you'd walk away? You wouldn't join the conversation, and talk against theism? Who are you kidding?

And believe me, I know why you're not answer that other post.

 

[Husker_x]

So, if you ran across a theist proselytizing to atheists, you'd walk away? You wouldn't join the conversation, and talk against theism? Who are you kidding?

And believe me, I know why you're not answer that other post.

I'd be happy to engage in the discussion. What I would't do however is whine like a girl about persecution for the fact that a theist was preaching his god. Now do you have something you want to talk about, or do you want to continue drawing parallels to gay men and claiming I'm persecuting you?

 

[knapplc]

Now do you have something you want to talk about, or do you want to continue drawing parallels to gay men and claiming I'm persecuting you?

No, I think your persecution of theists on these boards is a fine conversation to have. We can continue with that. :thumbs

 

[Husker_x]

Dammit Knap, you're heading the right way for an inquisition, because if there's one place you can learn about persecution, Christianity is it.

 

[muzicman0]

I know this pastor who went someplace and you could tell that he wanted to do something else for his faith. One day he was sitting in a campground and an eagle landed on a branch and he was filled with the sense that he was supposed to start a ministry in this new place. What I can't help but wonder, though, is first how this is any different from the omen-reading of the Roman legions or druidism, and second how one could ever know that it was God's will that this decision was made. I've also know pastors who thought God wanted them to have a ministry elsewhere the failed.
Despite the sideshow of knapplc's cynicism, I am very serious when I say that I wonder what religious people do to handle these seemingly contradictory situations. How can you ever know that God is communicating with you if you recognize that you could be getting the wrong signals?

your definition of contradiction is not the same as mine (here we go again!)...to me a contradiction is if a=b, and b=c, then a contradiction would be 'a does not equal c'.

I don't see a contradiction in any of the examples you give. How do YOU know that God wasn't asking your pastor friend to start a ministry there? What is YOUR definition of a failed ministry? Again, this conversation goes back to the beginning. Faith. Experience. and the bible (again, the Christian one).

How can you ever know that God is communicating with you if you recognize that you could be getting the wrong signals?

Like I said in the beginning. Experience. How is misinterpreting God any different than misinterpreting anyone? I can tell you that when I first got married, I misinterpreted many things. But, as time went on, I got better at knowing what she was saying (for example...just because she says that 'we need milk' doesn't mean that offering to drop her off at the grocery store is what she wants to hear!).

I do believe that faith is important...but like almost anything in life that is an action, the more you do it, the better you get at it.