It's off-season - let's play what if......

[junior4949]

One of things that people forget when comparing BC to Stoops or Meyer, is the fact that both them walked into talent laden programs. Zook and Blake gave them a tremendous head start over BC. Plus both are much easier to recruit to. Remember Meyer turned down his dream job to go to Florida. There was a reason and it starts with a capitol T.

And to further coment on the talent level, most media felt even while Tom was here that we were running an antequated system. He had the ability to overcome some things. But remember there were only 4 to 5 years of domination. Normally when it came time to play the big boys, Nebraska folded like a card house. That is the real situation. We won a lot of games there is no question, but when lined up against very talented teams with speed we had problems. Just another cycle of that situation I think.

I remember the grumblings about not winning the big one over and over. Losing to Oklahoma and how we sucked. But things change as time goes on. I just do not want to become another Alabama. A program with every bit as much tradition and history as Nebraska if not more. They still have not righted the ship. It as Hunter says takes time to build Rome.

The information might be wrong, but I read on another board where Blake never had a recruiting class ranked any higher than #22. It also said Roy Williams was the only 5 star recruit he ever landed. If the information is correct, then how talent laden was OU really before Stoops got there? I'll give you Meyer and Florida as it was loaded with talent before he got there.

Why do you think it's easier to recruit to Norman OU than Lincoln, NE? It's not even half the size of Lincoln, NE. It doesn't have sandy beaches, the ocean, the mountains, etc. It might be a tad warmer in the winter but that is it. I guess I don't get where you're coming from that it's easier to recruit into OU.

It's funny how you bring up Alabama. I think you need to do a little research as to why they're not back. Not only were they on probation, Franchione left because the heat was on once again for violations. Alabama's program has had it's hands tied behind it's back for quite some time. Unlike Miami and OU when they came off probation, Alabama has found it necessary to continue to cheat and receive more and more penalties. I don't even think it's fair to compare Nebraska to Alabama because the last time I knew we've never been on probation.

Wouldn't it be fairer to compare Nebraska to Notre Dame? I mean you did allude to it as the reason Meyer went to Florida over his "dream" job. Last I checked Notre Dame hasn't done too bad under Weiss. You may think they're overrated or whatever, but the fact still remains they've played a tough schedule and faired pretty well. If you think Lincoln is hard to recruit to, try Notre Dame. Their strict academic requirements make it very difficult to get the top quality players.

When you say Nebraska only had 4 to 5 years of domination, I must ask how many teams have ever won 3 NC's in 4 years? It's a feat that is not common place in college football. Few programs have ever had that kind of success. You forget all the years NU dominated the Big 8. I realize the Big 8 was made up of some pretty sub par teams, but we did dominate for several years.

IMO, it's not that the offenses or defenses or recruiting has changed that much in college football. It's because college football has changed that much. It's the reason R.C. Slocum was fired at A&M, Solich at NU, Coker at Miami, and the reason Fulmer at Tennesee is on the hot seat. Carr would have been fired more than likely at Michigan if they wouldn't have had the spectacular season they did last year. The one thing that no coach has at a big time college football school is TIME! Even if you've had success and won a NC or two, you better not slip up or have any down time or you will be replaced ie Coker. I'll still stand by my original post that if after 6 years we still are losing 4 or more games that it will be very difficult for BC to get a new contract much less an extension. I think this is the reason we're seeing ex. NFL coaches go to colleges that might not have the best football history like Spurrier to South Carolina, like Butch Davis to North Carolina, etc. You could even throw Pete Carroll in there going to USC and Saban to Alabama. While each of those schools have a strong history, they both were awful for a decade or so prior to their taking the job.

 

[skersfan]

Pretty much what I am saying. He needs the 5-6 years. He has made steps forward, IMHO. But I want to give him enough time to have his kids on the field.

Most people/media/Big12 Coaches said who ever ended up at Oklahoma would do well. They felt the program had the talent to immediately win. Blake may have if he had been given the opportunity to coach the last year. Who knows. Of course I am going off of memory here. That may not be exactly the situation, but it is as I remember.

Oklahoma borders Texas, they get a lot of Texas kids that are not snapped up by their first choice. We are making inroads into Texas, but at this time Oklahoma pulls the vast majority of Texas players. Close to home, parents can see games. Red River Rivalry, just some of the reasons.

I am not comparing the the morals of the program. I am comparing the changing of coaches. You can not succeed in college football with rotating coaches. Alabama has proven that. The reason the coaches had problems was due to the boosters/alumni trying to replace Bryant. They ran Stallings off, he stated because he could not, nor did he want to measure up to the Bear.

Notre Dame has stiff academic standards no question. But they have nearly every top athlete at every Catholic High School wanting to go there. Not to mention those of the Rocky cult. They have no problem recruiting. They have problems qualifying. A much easier job, than qualifying and selling.

Alabama has had problems, but the alumni want a winner instantly and have fired numerous coaches or actually ran off the good ones they had because of too much preasure.

He just needs to the time to prove he is the right guy.

I was speaking of National domination. I am happy with the Big 8 wins, but it truly was 1 game a year and the rest cream puffs. Things have changed. They changed the day the Big 12 came about. More money for all the programs, and boosters stepping up to the plate at numerous previous patsies.

If he is not, we have major problems. But not to the level we had before he arrived. There is talent on this team, talent that is capable of running todays offensive concepts. If for some reason he does not turn out to be our man, the next guy in line will have a much easier job than BC did. And hopefully if it does happen he will not have deal with the hate he has faced.

 

[junior4949]

I will take the losses and have a good clean program. I never want to be mentioned in the same breath as Colorado. When all that is important is wins and losses you end up on a path that leads to the likes of Miami and Colorado.

I know some feel differently about the wins and losses, but that is my stand. I want a program that I can be proud of on all fronts. BC has one more hurdle as far as I am concerned. I am hoping for him and this program he makes. This program will have many problems if we fire coaches again anytime soon. Set back and relax. Give it time to succeed or fail. Everything I see makes me think we are headed in the right direction, but I never felt it would happen overnight. So I may be a lot more patient than some.

It's funny you bring this point up. We fired a coach for having a good clean program with a few losses. I think the program had many problems the last time we fired a coach. I don't think I need to address the streaks that were broken since the last firing. As long as the North teams continue to be as weak as they are, what difference does it make if we start firing coaches? Can we get beat any worse than 70+ to 14 or whatever?

I'm sure BC will be given his full 6 years, but that isn't what the thread is about. It's about whether or not he should be given a contract extension. Contract extensions are earned, and thus far I don't think he's done anything that warrants a new contract or extension.

 

[Sugalean]

I agree Junior...

Yes there are some things that say yes we appear to be heading in positive direction. We've also seen some things that definitely needs to be better as well. IMO though, SP has a luxuary of giving this more time before making any decision about a contract extention. Yeah I know it helps recruiting if a coach's position is soundly secure... but like I said b4... if you do your homework and come up with a good plan in researching and securing the next HC... that guy can come in and get it done in recruiting too. We seen that so far with Bill. He came in and his staff did a very sound job in recruiting right away (keeping em happy is another story maybe). The next man could very well do the same.

Gotta win & avoid 5 loss seasons. That just won't fly here very long no matter where you finish in the recruiting rankings.

 

[skersfan]

Frank had no control over the team. We can start with Deangelo Evans, Eric Crouch, Richie Incognito and a few others that left due to morals charges. A clean program as far as suspensions and probations were concerned. But not an organized, disciplined program. He had virtually no control of his assistants up until the last day. See Pelini charging the field.

I felt before the previous staff was fired that we were in the tank, not only talent wise, but approaching ethics wise. You can defend the past all you want. But in my mind we are a much better team than we were before. The key word is Team. He has taken a program that was on the verge of going wild, to a pretty well run, professional program. I think he deserves the extension for cleaning up a mess that not many wanted anything to do with.

They were not beating down the door to apply for the job if you remember correctly. Many reasons for that no question.

But as I stated if he does not get an extension this year, I have no problem with it. I really do not think he will either. He knows what is expected of him, and he seems to be the type of person who wants to succeed. We all need to hope and pray that he does.

 

[Sugalean]

I think you are over stating this Skers.

The team wasn't in any mess like you claim.

Lets see. We've had the Hillbilly thing. Guesture gate. I'm Comparing this to Pellini charging the field. Never did figure out why that botther so many in the first place. I loved his fire and willingness to fight for his boys. No worse than giving the ref the throat slash. A ton of much hyped players leave. Ritchie left under Callahan's reign not Solich's. We have also had some discipline problems that BC has addressed in a sound manner. I don't see much of a difference when you talk of these things.

Like I said. We seen the good and the bad. What we haven't seen are the wins that get us back in the national picture and consistantly in the rankings. The last staff at least can make this claim. I think this is important to the Husker nation. You can't just always look good on paper and continue to say for yrs at a time that we are headed in right direction but the record doesn't necessarily reflect this. This next season is huge for Callahan and any extention. Any gravitating back to you know where will hurt. I think he will once again have to lead us back to at least a divisional title, better the record and have the program once again nationally ranked. If these things don't happen, I can see a big division coming in the Husker nation as to whether we should keep him or not. Time will tell.

 

[junior4949]

Frank had no control over the team. We can start with Deangelo Evans, Eric Crouch, Richie Incognito and a few others that left due to morals charges. A clean program as far as suspensions and probations were concerned. But not an organized, disciplined program. He had virtually no control of his assistants up until the last day. See Pelini charging the field.

I felt before the previous staff was fired that we were in the tank, not only talent wise, but approaching ethics wise. You can defend the past all you want. But in my mind we are a much better team than we were before. The key word is Team. He has taken a program that was on the verge of going wild, to a pretty well run, professional program. I think he deserves the extension for cleaning up a mess that not many wanted anything to do with.

They were not beating down the door to apply for the job if you remember correctly. Many reasons for that no question.

But as I stated if he does not get an extension this year, I have no problem with it. I really do not think he will either. He knows what is expected of him, and he seems to be the type of person who wants to succeed. We all need to hope and pray that he does.

I could have swore Eric Crouch won the heisman. I must have slept through where he left due to morals! A coach no matter how good he is can make a player grow a pair. Deangelo Evans left because he was a puss. Richie Incognito like described above was a BC thang.

I don't think we need to get into the classless acts we've seen displayed by the current staff. I don't believe we had any players punching people in warmups with the previou staff either. You can look past all the disgraces we've endured under the current staff if you want, but if you're going to do that then I think you have to look past the previous staff's. Solich may not have had control over his assistants, but at least we didn't have to worry about someone having control over him (ie f'ing hillbillies, etc.)

Yeah, the team is so much better. We have the "Golden" boy who was supposed to be the best thing since beer in a can opt to leave this great "team" you describe for the likes of what NCState? Now, we are left with a bunch of QB's with little to no experience at all here at NU. We totally screw over our best running back causing him to leave early just to keep precious Lucky happy. Now, we have to use a DB to fill holes due to injury, etc. We have a receiver getting into a bar fight. Yeah, things are great.

He deserves an extension for cleaning up a mess? Other coaches didn't want to come here because they saw what happened. They saw that if you lose 3 games in a season, you get fired. They saw where if you make marked improvement from 7-7 to 9-3, you get fired. Who did you think would take the job? I mean God wasn't hired to come in here and coach the team. It was Pud's like 5 or 6th choice that was hired because he didn't have a well thought out plan or person in mind before he fired the previous staff.

 

[skersfan]

Incognito was a cancer on the team and should have been gone long before BC took over.

Eric crouch pulling up his panties and running home to moma was what I was talking about. His first round of quitting. Frank had no control was the point.

BC corrected the Incogniton problem instantly. Cotton wanted him gone the year before.

There were really no major wins after Tom's recruits were gone except for the trick play that beat Oklahoma. But still say and did since the loss to Arizona, that we had major problems.

Not saying there are not problems now, but overall we have a much sounder program, with direction and professional recruiting. It is a win win situation to me.

I think most will be happy with this years results, but I still expect losses to SC and Texas regular season. And possibly a win against Texas or Oklahoma in the CCG. Neutral field will give us a fair shake there. I just do not see us being able to over come the talent disparity between SC and Us. Not to mention they have an off week to practice and watch us closely at Wake Forest.

I will be right there with you after next year if there are losses like Oklahoma State last year. I can not handle more of those either.

As far as the Fing hillbillies, most here are total hipocrites on this. I know I have made those coments and my guess is 99% of all of you that bring that up have to. It was said in a heated moment, not intended to be heard, and if you say you have not done it in your vehicle when someone cut you off or ran you to the shoulder, then I will give very little credibility to your coments. It happens every single day and to 99% of us. Bunch of PC crap to me.

Being 60 years old and retired from the Marine Corps may give me a little broader look at the real world, but to me it was no big deal, and deserved no apology. The University of Oklahoma owed the apology for not being able to control there mascots and their crowd as far as I am concerned. I still wonder how the Bob Father would have handled it. Most likely more to my liking.

But I have taken up enough space on this subject. You guys have your ideas, I have mine. WE are all Husker fans and only want the same thing. I just choose to support our coach 100%. Just as I wanted Frank to get another year to see if what he did made a difference. But he is gone and we have a new leader, positive thinking overcomes things, negativity never brings positive results.

The glass is half full and I see it getting better.. It makes my days easier.

I respect your thoughts and how civil we have discussed this. Thank you.

 

[Sugalean]

Actually Skers...

I personally had no problem with the Hillbilly thing and the Guesture gate. Found it more amusing than anything. Only problem was as with the Pellini losing it (And I also seen Frank lose it once on a terrible call), it became a big distraction with the press running it to the ground. That we didnot need at the times the incidents occurred. We need to avoid situations like that. Actually I was giving BC the atta boy when he gave Uselesschek the whatfo when he did the throat slash. I'm kind of sympathetic when it comes to fighting for your team.

I almost got tossed the other day on a balk call on a second strike. The problem is they called it but our bench didn't hear the call for they must of whispered it I swear. So when a apparent strike 3 came on the next pitch, I was dumbfounded. I screamed thats strike 3. The umps corrected me and said they called a balk on the pitch before. I then screamed as loud as I could ..."Say it loud if you call it. We don't have secret decoder rings over here." That didn't go over too well. The crowd cracked up and umps both came over and told me they didn't have to speak up. I answered "well nanny-nanny boo-boo". Came that close to being tossed.

My point is this though. My showing up the ump did not help one bit outside of the fact that my team seen I will go to war for them. Needless to say we didn't get any calls the rest of the way. Momentum also seem to sway the other way. That hitter hit a 2 strike seeing eye ball 2 rbi single on the next pitch and they put up 4 2 out scores after the big hoopala over nothing really. Lesson learned I guess.

 

[Hunter94]

yep, if you f-with the bull, you get the horn everytime. umps have a way of throwing their weight around and teaching "lessons". they are always right!

 

[Foppa]

Yes it does. We had no business in the NC game. We were trounced by a Colorado team, do you remember those days. Our only real quality win was against Oklahoma on our home field with a trick play. Oklahoma went on to lose in their bowl game also

BC has not been here long enough for any of his young players to be drafted. He recruited stop gap measures to get the program rolling.

Of all those drafted of Frank's compare those numbers to SC, Oklahoma, Texas, Florida State, Miami, Ohio State. Numbers do not lie. We had some quality players, but not the number to do the job. Which became evident as we went farther down the road with Frank.

That is not an attack on Frank. Still repsect all he did, but he was placed in a no win situation, there were many things that led to his demise. But recruiting and failing to do what his superior told him to do ended his run. When Tonm's kids left so did the future. Lack of talent is evident in the NFL draft over Frank's years and still to this day.

No I am not BC. But I have been saying we did not have the talent even when Frank was coaching. We do not nor did we have the depth to be a top ten program. Still do not. Period.

You are looking at a by gone era. Without top recruits that is not going to happen again. Back when we played maybe one or two real games a year. The competition is much tougher. The money to bring a program up is available at almost every major program now. We are not unique in our attitude. We can not just build road graders out of hometown Nebraska boys. Sad but I think true.

We are recruiting the top level kids. We are not getting anywhere the numbers that the top programs are. Pretty simple to understand.

I agree a top level win is needed this year. I think this is the year we turn things around, but it could be a very disappointing year very easily. You have to play the games. Hopefully both of us will be happy come January. But I still think he has at least another year after this before I start to question his direction.

Skers, I think you are spot-on on most of your posts on this thread. But to say Solich was placed in a 'no-win' situation? Absolutely not. Osborne gave him EVERYTHING. Great talent, great system, great program. Solich couldn't handle it. He didn't have the personality to recruit like Osborne, didn't have the understanding to change the composure of the game, and didn't have the morality to keep himself off the off-field map. Big shoes to fill? Of course. Didn't have the keys to the monster truck that is NU football? Nope.

 

[skersfan]

Foppa,

Okay one more post and I will shut up.

I felt Frank had no way of changing anything. Could you imagine the screams from the fans, You and Me included if he decided to change after a 3 out of 4 run. He had assistants that thought they should have had the job, refused to recruit, and I think a personality conflict with the AD.

I know there are numerous other things that went on. But very seldom does the one that inherits the top notch program keep it going. Normally a turn over soon after.

I liked Frank, but in honesty it got to where my buddy's 11 year old daughter could call what the next play would be, short side agh! never mind!

And you are spot on on the recruiting. Sales! Sales! Sales, not one single business runs with out a great sales team. And as much as we hate to even think it. Nebraska football is not just about pride and tradition anymore. It is about paying the bills. Big business period.

 

[Foppa]

Foppa,

Okay one more post and I will shut up.

I felt Frank had no way of changing anything. Could you imagine the screams from the fans, You and Me included if he decided to change after a 3 out of 4 run. He had assistants that thought they should have had the job, refused to recruit, and I think a personality conflict with the AD.

I know there are numerous other things that went on. But very seldom does the one that inherits the top notch program keep it going. Normally a turn over soon after.

I liked Frank, but in honesty it got to where my buddy's 11 year old daughter could call what the next play would be, short side agh! never mind!

And you are spot on on the recruiting. Sales! Sales! Sales, not one single business runs with out a great sales team. And as much as we hate to even think it. Nebraska football is not just about pride and tradition anymore. It is about paying the bills. Big business period.

Skers, no one is asking you to shut up, unless you yourself want to on this thread, you have great imput. Here is my feedback...

I don't think there was a lot Solich needed to change. In this day and age, maybe, but at that time, after a run of 3 National Championships? Granted, the option-based offense isn't very feasible today due to the 'business' aspect of college football-turn to NFL that it has developed into (more on that later), but in this state, it worked pretty darn well. Nebraska didn't need huge recruiting, and more often than not, didn't get much of it. But the program developed 'average' talent' (lol) and turned them into great 'Husker' players.

Even if other assistants wanted the job, I would've hoped they respected Osborne enough to understand his decision. If you're going to tank Nebraska by not recruiting hard for the new head coach, then you have no business being a coach. Go find another job. That's pretty sad if that actually took place.

I didn't really like Frank. At all. But I respected him as part of the program, as a player and as an assistant, and did want him to succeed, because I wanted Nebraska to succeed. NU is my alma mater, and I can't control the decisions based on coaching, so I have to pull for the guy put in charge. But I agree, way too predictable. In fairness, alot was said about Osborne and Devaney being the same way. And then Osborne got alot of slack for throwing instead of running for the 2 pts. vs. Miami in the Orange Bowl, regardless of Rozier being sidelined. Sometimes you just can't win as a head coach. But if you're good, savvy, and innovative, eventually the law of averages are going to work out in your favor. And for Osborne, that happened 3 times. It was hard to think that that was ever going to be the case with Solich.

One of the BEST things about college football is the love for the game, the passion, the environment, the determination. Unfortunately, now you have to revolve your system and your coaching around a potential NFL career. Otherwise, you fall by the wayside. I love college football, and although I love the Denver Broncos, college football will always intrigue me more. But you're right...the business-side of it forces the hands of collegiate administration, and the business-side of it creeps into college football more and more every day. In Nebraska, it isn't quite as evident, and the Academic All-Americans Nebraska graduates is a great example of granting athletes a solid alternative to the NFL, whether by lack of professional-level talent, injury, or whatever the case may be. But with athletes leaving school earlier and earlier every year, it is hard to ignore the sights that kids set.

 

[junior4949]

Umm, Osborne was now a great recruiter? I don't think so. Even the great Tommie Frazier only had like one other big time offer and that was from Notre Dame. The great fullbacks we've had, they were walk-ons. Brook Berringer had more basketball scholarships offered than football. TO may have had an uncanny nack for developing players, but to say he was a great recruiter is absurd. He was just fortunate during our NC runs that we had great talent from within the state of Nebraska (Ahman Green, Scott Frost, Mackovicka's, etc.)

What TO gave Solich was a very young and green team. We didn't have a QB with any experience at all. TO knew when to get while the gettin was good if you ask me. The 1998 season ended just like it would have if TO had been on the sideline. We were greeen, we were young, and we made a lot of mistakes. It wouldn't have mattered who coached we would have had the 4 losses.

Btw, if I'm not mistaken I believe Solich was coach of the year twice in his 5 year stint at Nebraska of the Big 12. He's already been named coach of the year in the Mac. Tell me how terrible he was when our next coach duplicates his success!

 

[Foppa]

Umm, Osborne was now a great recruiter? I don't think so. Even the great Tommie Frazier only had like one other big time offer and that was from Notre Dame. The great fullbacks we've had, they were walk-ons. Brook Berringer had more basketball scholarships offered than football. TO may have had an uncanny nack for developing players, but to say he was a great recruiter is absurd. He was just fortunate during our NC runs that we had great talent from within the state of Nebraska (Ahman Green, Scott Frost, Mackovicka's, etc.)

What TO gave Solich was a very young and green team. We didn't have a QB with any experience at all. TO knew when to get while the gettin was good if you ask me. The 1998 season ended just like it would have if TO had been on the sideline. We were greeen, we were young, and we made a lot of mistakes. It wouldn't have mattered who coached we would have had the 4 losses.

Btw, if I'm not mistaken I believe Solich was coach of the year twice in his 5 year stint at Nebraska of the Big 12. He's already been named coach of the year in the Mac. Tell me how terrible he was when our next coach duplicates his success!

And the MAC is significant how? Coach of the year there is like the Most Perfect Palm tree Award in Moscow. Has no meaning. Yeah, Poor Frank. He only had one of the best QB to ever play at Nebraska, win a Heisman, and have nothing to show for it. Yeah, he must've been 'green'.